Adventure - NYC to RI
- Thread starter bridaus
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
How do you not buck the tide when you leave NYC and head for RI with a 6 knot boat?
The only answer is to time the tides and travel for less than maybe 6 hours a day.
With hitting stops (marinas) along the way on each leg that will lead to a longer trip and maybe a 4 day travel time.
bridaus
Senior Member
8-9 knots methinks. I'm planning for 7, 19 hours of travel.
I don't think the ebb/flow once reaching LI Sound is that dramatic in terms of speed, is it? Just looked it up, less than a knot...
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Yes, travel on the LI sound can be impacted by tides, winds, currents, etc. Sailboaters who travel at similar speeds as you specifically plan their trips around. If you have overall bad conditions you might run a couple knots slower. I did a similar trip up to RI recently and with the tides, winds, currents in my favor I usually was 3 mph faster. On this particular trip I was 3 mph slower. You do not want to travel during borderline freezing temps because the water will freeze all over your boat and decks.
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PMF1984
Guru
You want to hit the Race at the right current conditions and preferably not an opposing wind. It’s discussed pretty well in Eldridge Tide and Pilot Book. If you don’t have one, it’s essential for that neck of the woods.
bridaus
Senior Member
I'm hiring a captain, but I'll educate myself as well, thanks for the heads up all.
The Eldrige book is the best answer above for tidal flow both near NYC and out in LI sound - we always had one on board. Tidal flow is about twice what you think in the middle of the sound at full run ….and can be easily 4X that at various spots near NY and out at the Race.
What about the destination and your insurance? Has that been addressed?
Does this say that you are planning on a continuous 8-9 knot cruise from a 42 with 120 hp?
Also consider how many stops and what mileage will they add to the trip.
bridaus
Senior Member
Destination and insurance are all set.
I was planning for a slower 7 knots. I'm going to check the power/speed curves again to be sure that's achievable.
I keep hearing a lot of flows/tides/ebbs = fast, but the data I find online suggests 0.75 knots maximum. Can anyone speak to it being faster in the middle of the sound? Sure, exiting the East River it will be up to five there (and will be timed), but once in the sound I'm not seeing the currents everyone is talking about... (again, I'm not the captain on this trip, but I'm going to study like I am).
I was planning for a slower 7 knots. I'm going to check the power/speed curves again to be sure that's achievable.
I keep hearing a lot of flows/tides/ebbs = fast, but the data I find online suggests 0.75 knots maximum. Can anyone speak to it being faster in the middle of the sound? Sure, exiting the East River it will be up to five there (and will be timed), but once in the sound I'm not seeing the currents everyone is talking about... (again, I'm not the captain on this trip, but I'm going to study like I am).
Your much better off with the 2019 Eldrigde book for like $12 but if you want to just play around this will likely answer your questions.
ftp://ftp.library.noaa.gov/noaa_documents.lib/NOS/tidal_current_charts/Long_Island_Sound_1979.pdf
bridaus
Senior Member
Playing around now is fine, I see Plum Gut gets up to five knots, something to watch out for... but I don't see any other major concerns for a power boat. I will continue to review and see if I can pickup that book as well.
If you go through the Race then you could see 4 kts of current, but you don't need to go that route. It is not any longer to go inside Fisher's Island where the current should be no more than a knot or two at worst.
David
David
bridaus
Senior Member
Up to 2.5 behind Fisher's Island, it is better.
And do not forget wind. You get an Easterly wind on LI sound and its building up all the way from the ocean. It is not pleasant and will slow you down on top of tides/currents.
The East River can get crazy. I cruise at ~23-25 mph and on the ER going against current I've been bumped down to 13-15mph.
The East River can get crazy. I cruise at ~23-25 mph and on the ER going against current I've been bumped down to 13-15mph.
jleonard
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Except for Watch Hill Passage but that's only for about 15 minutes.
If I were going that direction I would go thru the Race and stay outside of Fisher's. The route is clear there's nothing to have to dodge. The Race will only affect you for about 30 minutes max if you're bucking the current.
Inside of Fisher's can be tricky. Lots of cross currents, several natural hazards to dodge, then you have to go thru one of the passages to get back into open water again. Not the end of the world by any means, but I have been boating that area for over 25 years and that's what I advise.
Cigatoo
Guru
JohnP
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If questionable fuel quality is a main concern. How about a bladder tank on the aft deck. Direct connect to engine supply and return. New fuel no dirt or water and you are good to go. Too bad you don't know someone who could let you use one for a few days. Waiting till Spring is not a bad idea also. Congrats on the new boat once you get it sorted you will have the ultimate cruiser!
Seatow hauls their boats in winter. You're on your own.
Only 2 open water spots. LI to BI, BI to Newport. I think they're both about 20 miles. Typically very choppy following sea heading north. You can always follow the coast up and be closer to marinas although trip would be longer.
I think I would second the suggestion to take the boat out for a day and push it hard. Warm clothes mandatory. Dinghy with working outboard would be very high on my list of necessities
bridaus
Senior Member
They do? https://youtu.be/_C16ieMjg7k
I think you're the first person to suggest a dinghy. I was between a dinghy and a life raft and I think I'm going for the life raft. I don't plan on going in the water and if I do all hell has broken loose.
hmason
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I think most of you are underestimating the inherent danger of the Long Island Sound in winter. You will be truly on your own. The Sound can be treacherous. I have boated on the Sound from the East River, through the Race and on to ports in RI to Boston for over 50 years. I personally would wait until Spring. If you do go now, go alone so that you don’t put anyone else at risk. You don’t know the boat. Wait until you do.
bridaus
Senior Member
I hear you, but can you be more specific? I'm trusting the captain, but maybe I shouldn't go with him?
A couple of posts back I gave my weather parameters. Even if those are met?
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In our immediate area (about 10 miles) of LI sound besides all of the local work boats that would be available for both response and/or towing these are the agencies whos boat are pulled now for the season:
- All Suffolk county boats
- Nortport police
- Asharoken police
- Huntington police
- NY DEC boat
And CG stations are beginning be affected by the shutdown.
The Sound can have short period waves with confused seas that build quickly and is very changeable - any debri and/or ice is just more problematic.
a beautiful area to boat when warm and hen the weather is calmer but it can change quickly and not forgiving in the winter months.
At most marinas around here they could not even get the boat lifts to work in any reasonable period of time - if that were to become necessary.
hmason
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I bought a boat from a friend. It was in mint condition. Our first cruise was across the Sound from Westport CT to Port Jefferson NY. Distance of 15 miles. Halfway across a squall hit us. Winds clocked at 60 mph and waves to 5’. That day reports indicated numerous capsized boats and one death. We had no issues other than the loss of a canvas hatch cover. Lesson learned that the weather can change in minutes.
If you get into a rough weather situation you may not be able to deal with a simple filter change or hold your lunch down in a hot rolling engine room. You really need to shakedown this KK before you start risking your safety. If seas get dicey you can stir up dirt in your fuel tanks and shut down your engine. And if it does shutdown I can bet it will be at the worst possible time/place.
I’m not trying to be a “wet blanket,” just trying to apply some risk management.
If you get into a rough weather situation you may not be able to deal with a simple filter change or hold your lunch down in a hot rolling engine room. You really need to shakedown this KK before you start risking your safety. If seas get dicey you can stir up dirt in your fuel tanks and shut down your engine. And if it does shutdown I can bet it will be at the worst possible time/place.
I’m not trying to be a “wet blanket,” just trying to apply some risk management.
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bridaus
Senior Member
Think it's possible to wait for a forecast that allows one to know that a squall is 95% unlikely? Or can they pop up on the calmest of days in the winter?
I'm interested in the estimated risk, no wet blankets here. Life is risky but we can affect it quite a bit. No sense in senseless risk.
I'm interested in the estimated risk, no wet blankets here. Life is risky but we can affect it quite a bit. No sense in senseless risk.
Good advice. I carry plenty of spare tools, parts, etc, but no way do I think I can handle crawling into an engine room in bad seas and drain, remove, replace, prime, restart engine without getting sick or boat getting tossed around real good due to loss of power. My plan would likely be to drop anchor and call sea tow.
Its not even a question... a life raft over a dinghy... for life saving. The time it takes to deploy a dinghy counts and even if you pull it off, get the motor started, waves can way more easily overcome a dinghy. Personally, I'd have both a life raft and dinghy because I need the dinghy to get to shore from anchor/moorings.
You can rent a life raft from LSRE. They deliver in the tri-state area I think for $50. They also rent exposure suits and EPIRBs.
"Life is risky but we can affect it quite a bit."
- new boat , unknown machinery
- no sea trail of merit
- unknown fuel condition
- no hull insurance
- no tow boats on water
- very limited LEO assets available
- virtually no rec boats monitoring radio or in sight
- cold 10X more risky then warm weather
- no reasonable need to move boat now
- unfamiliar with boats handling
- unknown cruise speeds and fuel burn
- unfamiliar with route and sea states
I am really not sure if there is any measurable reason to make the trip rather than prepare and wait.
Cigatoo
Guru
I wouldn’t trust the captain that is willing to take the risk. As Howard said LI Sound / BI sound / Point Jude / can get really snotty any time of year. Especially winter. It’s the boat that is the unknown and a prudent person / captain ways the risk.
Gabe n Em
Guru
We just did that trip this summer on our way up from Savannah. The East River was exciting with all the water taxis. We took 2 days, starting from Sandy Hook, stopping in oyster Bay the first night, and pulled into the harbor of refuge the second day. We did 14 kts in a7.5kt boat going through the race. No waves to speak of that day.
I'll echo the fuel issue - clean it, have switchable racors, with vacuum gauges and a ton of filters, or run off a bladder.
Sea tow doesn't lock in for the first 30 days.
A good dingy to tow you, if needed. And, a well working anchor setup. Raise and lower it in the slip before you go.
Handheld vhf and gps - Independence from the boats unknown systems would be good.
Let's us know when you plan to make the trip! Good luck and if you're coming into point Judith, we'll come down to catch your lines and hand you a beer!
I'll echo the fuel issue - clean it, have switchable racors, with vacuum gauges and a ton of filters, or run off a bladder.
Sea tow doesn't lock in for the first 30 days.
A good dingy to tow you, if needed. And, a well working anchor setup. Raise and lower it in the slip before you go.
Handheld vhf and gps - Independence from the boats unknown systems would be good.
Let's us know when you plan to make the trip! Good luck and if you're coming into point Judith, we'll come down to catch your lines and hand you a beer!
Cigatoo
Guru
“- new boat , unknown machinery
- no sea trail of merit
- unknown fuel condition
- no hull insurance
- no tow boats on water
- very limited LEO assets available
- virtually no rec boats monitoring radio or in sight
- cold 10X more risky then warm weather
- no reasonable need to move boat now
- unfamiliar with boats handling
- unknown cruise speeds and fuel burn
- unfamiliar with route and sea states”
Well said!
- no sea trail of merit
- unknown fuel condition
- no hull insurance
- no tow boats on water
- very limited LEO assets available
- virtually no rec boats monitoring radio or in sight
- cold 10X more risky then warm weather
- no reasonable need to move boat now
- unfamiliar with boats handling
- unknown cruise speeds and fuel burn
- unfamiliar with route and sea states”
Well said!
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