Gov shutdown and Documentation

Capitaine R said:

Well like you said "most will accept proof that I submitted and are waiting on the Document", but I will no doubt get the one USCG or local law enforcement officer that won't. That is just my luck . Especially traveling thru 9 states without State registration numbers or stickers on display. And at this point, since I have already sent in my forms and with an on going Gov shut down, I don't know if a priority request will do me much good, but it is worth checking out.

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So the boat did not have an old name, hailing port, or any reg stickers on it? If it does, I would leave the existing on until your stuff is in order. If its blank, i would add your name and hailing port as to not attract unneeded attention. LEO will see FL as the hailing port and likely no one will bother you about missing FL stickers on your trip down to FL... I have NEVER heard anyone having issue so long as they could provide proof they submitted the doc.

If you are traveling in winter, spring, I would not worry too much. I saw practically zero LEO out on the water during my 3,000 mile trip from Jan til May. I have purchased many boats before with documentation that took 5-6+ months to get and had no issues. I would not be worrying about it just keep proof of the paperwork that you submitted on-board.

And to reiterate, a doc service/agent does not magically help with a backlogged documentation that has yet to be processed by the CG. In fact my experience is they can mess things up and delay things more. Their letter does nothing magical. In order to get the priority request processed, you will need a reason such as a trip to the Bahamas. If you happen not to take that trip then so be it but you need a legit reason. Again, I don't think you need the documentation processed priority for the purposes that you have stated. One thing that would worry me is being in a state that does collect sales/use tax and having to pay them and FL at the same time. Be sure to read the regs of the state where the boat currently is and see if it might be in your interest to relocate the boat etc.

I found this, which confirms what the Broker told me. I am glad to see it on the states web site



. Are there any sales and use tax exemptions available on sales or purchases of vessels?
Yes. The exemptions available for sales and purchases
of vessels include:
•
Sales of vessels that will be docked in Connecticut
for 60 or fewer days in a calendar year.


•Vessels purchased by nonresidents who maintain
no permanent place of abode in Connecticut and
who will not register them in Connecticut.

Commercial fishing vessels and machinery or
equipment for use on the vessels. See
Informational Publication 2009(14)
,

Capitaine R said:

I found this, which confirms what the Broker told me. I am glad to see it on the states web site



. Are there any sales and use tax exemptions available on sales or purchases of vessels?
Yes. The exemptions available for sales and purchases
of vessels include:
•
Sales of vessels that will be docked in Connecticut
for 60 or fewer days in a calendar year.


•Vessels purchased by nonresidents who maintain
no permanent place of abode in Connecticut and
who will not register them in Connecticut.

Commercial fishing vessels and machinery or
equipment for use on the vessels. See
Informational Publication 2009(14)
,

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You filed form 139? I believe the vessel needs to be moved out of CT within 60 days though? Unless you can some how claim the winter storage exemption?

BruceK said:

If/when the shutdown ends, do the employees who stayed at work get back pay?
We have a different way of dealing with "Supply"(of money) issues. It worked, spectacularly, the one time I recall it being invoked.

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In previous shutdowns, both people who worked or did not work got back pay. I was an "essential" employee. Essential employees who had previously-approved vacation still went on vacation but got their vacation days back.

Capitaine R said:

Well like you said "most will accept proof that I submitted and are waiting on the Document", but I will no doubt get the one USCG or local law enforcement officer that won't. That is just my luck . Especially traveling thru 9 states without State registration numbers or stickers on display. And at this point, since I have already sent in my forms and with an on going Gov shut down, I don't know if a priority request will do me much good, but it is worth checking out. I have read the Florida law on paying taxes on a boat purchased in another state and I will definitely have to pay Florida sales tax once the boat is in the state for 90 days. I'm in no way trying to get out of paying the proper taxes. And even with a Documented boat you still have to register the boat in Florida if you plan to stay, and since we live here we plan to stay.

.

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I don't believe you'll have any issue with the lack of documentation. However, you may have an issue with the lack of registration. In fact, you could have it as soon as the second state you hit. The exemptions granted are often based on being registered elsewhere. When we purchased outside the state of Florida, we went on and registered in Florida even though the boat wouldn't reach Florida for 9 months. The only negative is you have to go on and pay the sales tax too, rather than delay it until you arrive. The positive was that it removed all questions along the way. We were also documented, but the only state we were in that didn't require documented vessels to register was California.

BandB said:

I don't believe you'll have any issue with the lack of documentation. However, you may have an issue with the lack of registration. In fact, you could have it as soon as the second state you hit. The exemptions granted are often based on being registered elsewhere. When we purchased outside the state of Florida, we went on and registered in Florida even though the boat wouldn't reach Florida for 9 months. The only negative is you have to go on and pay the sales tax too, rather than delay it until you arrive. The positive was that it removed all questions along the way. We were also documented, but the only state we were in that didn't require documented vessels to register was California.

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Yes some states do say their exceptions are based on it already being registered. The question is does documentation suffice. It varies by states. If the boat was previously documented and the documentation did not lapse, it is still documented, even though it is not in your name (yet). A quick and easy solution may be to register in RI.

markpierce said:

In previous shutdowns, both people who worked or did not work got back pay. I was an "essential" employee. Essential employees who had previously-approved vacation still went on vacation but got their vacation days back.

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There is, however, no guarantee of back pay for furloughed employees. In the past, they have received back pay because Congress had approved it. Technically, during the shutdown all leave was cancelled. From the OPM (Office of Personnel Management) website: "All paid time off during a shutdown furlough period must be canceled because the requirement to furlough supersedes leave and other paid time off rights. The Antideficiency Act (31 U.S.C. 1341 et seq.) does not allow authorization of any expenditure or obligation before an appropriation is made, unless authorized by law. Paid time off creates a debt to the Government that is not authorized by the Act. Therefore, agencies are instructed that during a shutdown furlough, all paid time off must be canceled."

Shutdowns are not the way to run a government. They do a disservice to both the employees affected, as well as the general public. This is my 12th shutdown (and 10th time furloughed) in my 35 years of public service. I love my job and would rather be a work as I believe that my work has value. If I didn't, I would have retired three years ago.

Jim

mystery said:

If the boat was previously documented and the documentation did not lapse, it is still documented, even though it is not in your name (yet).

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No it is not documented. Not the moment the sale took place. Irrelevant whether the CG is caught up or not. You can't present the previous owners documentation.

JLD said:

Shutdowns are not the way to run a government. They do a disservice to both the employees affected, as well as the general public. This is my 12th shutdown (and 10th time furloughed) in my 35 years of public service. I love my job and would rather be a work as I believe that my work has value. If I didn't, I would have retired three years ago. Jim

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Our constitutional monarchy system has a Governor General, generally a figurehead Queens representative. But in 1975 the GG exercised the power to invite the Opposition party to form a Government when the existing Govt. could not get the "Supply" Bill (ie money to operate)through Parliament.
Caused massive ructions,still angrily remembered by many. The ousted Prime Minister, a man of both style and letters, intoned from the steps of Parliament: "Well may God save the Queen, because nothing will save the Governor General".

BandB said:

No it is not documented. Not the moment the sale took place. Irrelevant whether the CG is caught up or not. You can't present the previous owners documentation.

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It is my understanding that if someone buys a boat that is documented and does not want it documented, they have to cancel and request deletion.

It is also my understanding that if someone buys a documented boat, they have to request the documentation be changed into their name by presenting the USCG notarized bill of sale. They do not request a new documentation, it is an owner name change.

Also thought that is how MARAD waivers and Coastwise endorsements carry through to subsequent owners...

Obviously one should (and probably has to by law) submit a name change but the status of the vessel remains "documented" from before the sale, during the sale, and after the sale, there is no lapse (unless its not renewed, even then I think it has to be officially deleted).

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Just to keep this conversation going, here is a statement from a Florida tax collector site.



Documented Vessels


Vessel documentation is a national form of registration for vessels with a net weight of five tons or more. Vessels are documented by the Federal Government (U.S. Coast Guard) and not by individual states. These vessels are not titled in Florida.
A documented vessel must be registered in Florida, if used on Florida waters for longer than 90 days. The registration number will be the official federal documentation number and a decal will also be issued. The decal must be affixed to a window or the windshield on the port side of the vessel. The registration will be issued in the name shown on the federal documentation papers. Commercial vessels registered to a non-resident of Florida pay an additional fee of $50.00.

Capitaine R said:

Just to keep this conversation going, here is a statement from a Florida tax collector site.



Documented Vessels


The registration number will be the official federal documentation number and a decal will also be issued. The registration will be issued in the name shown on the federal documentation papers.0.

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Which says that until you receive the documentation, you can't register it. So, I'd feel comfortable just carrying copies of the documentation application. Sure does put those intending to travel outside the US in a jam though.

BruceK said:

If/when the shutdown ends, do the employees who stayed at work get back pay?

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It is not absolutely guaranteed, but there has never been a shutdown to date where federal employees (both those who continued working, and those who did not) did not eventually get all of their back pay.


My sister-in-law works in the federal court system. She is absolutely THRILLED about the shutdown, as are all of her co-workers, from what she has said. As far as she is concerned, this is just an extended, paid, Christmas vacation. She could not be happier.

For what it's worth, I renewed my vessel documentation less than two weeks ago (online) and it arrived today.

denverd0n said:

My sister-in-law works in the federal court system. She is absolutely THRILLED about the shutdown, as are all of her co-workers, from what she has said. As far as she is concerned, this is just an extended, paid, Christmas vacation. She could not be happier.

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Your sister-in-law is in the minority! Neither I nor my daughter (we work for different Departments) nor ANY of our co-workers are happy to be furloughed. It is NOT an extended, paid, Christmas vacation! Furloughed employees are expected to be at (or near) their homes as they are expected to be back to work the morning after the shutdown ends. Employees not reporting back to work promptly are considered to be AWOL. Most of the furloughed employees I know are concerned about missing their paychecks.
Jim

JLD said:

Your sister-in-law is in the minority! Neither I nor my daughter (we work for different Departments) nor ANY of our co-workers are happy to be furloughed. It is NOT an extended, paid, Christmas vacation! Furloughed employees are expected to be at (or near) their homes as they are expected to be back to work the morning after the shutdown ends. Employees not reporting back to work promptly are considered to be AWOL. Most of the furloughed employees I know are concerned about missing their paychecks.
Jim

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It has been a lot of years since I worked for wages. However, I can't imagine that if my manager told my employees that as of today the Boss has decided to stop paying them. However, they are still expected to show up for work because their work is important to the Boss and our clients. We don't know if the Boss will reimburse them for those days worked in the future.


I think that all the government employees, yes even the critical ones, should simply not show up for work.

Airstream345 said:

For what it's worth, I renewed my vessel documentation less than two weeks ago (online) and it arrived today.

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I hope I'm that lucky, fingers crossed.

dhays said:

I think that all the government employees, yes even the critical ones, should simply not show up for work.

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Uh, most federal employees feel a duty to serve.

JLD said:

Your sister-in-law is in the minority! Neither I nor my daughter (we work for different Departments) nor ANY of our co-workers are happy to be furloughed. It is NOT an extended, paid, Christmas vacation! Furloughed employees are expected to be at (or near) their homes as they are expected to be back to work the morning after the shutdown ends. Employees not reporting back to work promptly are considered to be AWOL. Most of the furloughed employees I know are concerned about missing their paychecks.
Jim

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There are a lot of federal employees concerned about paying their rent or mortgage, making their car payments, buying food to feed their families. The human toll on a substantial number of people is very high and gets worse with each day.

denverd0n said:

It is not absolutely guaranteed, but there has never been a shutdown to date where federal employees (both those who continued working, and those who did not) did not eventually get all of their back pay.


My sister-in-law works in the federal court system. She is absolutely THRILLED about the shutdown, as are all of her co-workers, from what she has said. As far as she is concerned, this is just an extended, paid, Christmas vacation. She could not be happier.

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That's if Congress votes to provide back pay. And how nice for your sister-in-law. Perhaps she is married to a still-working spouse? Obviously, she is positioned to be well able to go without a paycheck for an extended period of time. There are tens of thousands who are not. Plus, with this president there is no assurance that he will go along with paying for work not done.

Consider also all the folks who work for private contractors doing government work. For five years I worked for a consulting company supporting software development. When a shutdown occured we were forced to use up all our vacation time, then no pay. Yeah, government shut downs are just another vacation. Really.

catalinajack said:

That's if Congress votes to provide back pay.

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Which they ALWAYS do. There has never, to date, been a government shutdown where all of the furloughed workers did not eventually get all of their back pay. NEVER!

catalinajack said:

And how nice for your sister-in-law. Perhaps she is married to a still-working spouse?

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No, she is the sole wage-earner for her family. They live within their means, and they have a bit of savings set aside. I'll probably get flamed for saying this -- as living beyond your means seems to be the accepted norm these days -- but anyone who can't go a month or two without a paycheck needs to take a serious look at their lifestyle. Federal employees don't earn the lavish paychecks that some people seem to think they do, but they certainly earn enough to be able to save a bit for a rainy day.

catalinajack said:

When a shutdown occured we were forced to use up all our vacation time, then no pay.

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And when the economy tanked in 2008 I got laid off right before Christmas. It happens. Especially if you work for a government contractor, this is something that you should expect, and be prepared for.


Again, I'll probably get flamed, but... It kind of amazes me how little sympathy we tend to have for those who take their boats out to sea without proper plans and preparation. Yet we virtually demand that people make no preparations or plans for rough economic seas. Putting aside a little savings is no different than having a life jacket handy when it's needed. It's the prudent thing to do.

You won't get any sympathy from half of the people with earnings in the country. They would tell you: "Welcome to my world." Poverty is a perpetual condition for them.


Ask a single mom working for a typical outlet of a Wall Street controlled virtual monopoly. She would most likely tell you to lay off the rest of government. Better yet, outsource the government and bring back industry.


I previously posted a link to the chart at SSA.gov or whatever the address is.


Over the holidays I watched a PBS documentary about Dayton, OH. Ask anyone in West Dayton. Effectively, they have all been laid off since about 1980, decades.


Shutdown is about a bunch of really silly, spoiled millionaires and billionaires who specialize in sucking the life out of this country. Now, guess how the president got elected.


I am sure all of the good people of the country hope any delay in your boat documentation is not an inconvenience to you.