Gov shutdown and Documentation

When we purchased the new to us Nordic Tug we promptly faxed off all the paper work needed to document the boat in our name. And of course we have no idea if the USCG actually got the paperwork, and now we have a Gov shutdown. I have also received an Email from the school I attended to acquire my Master Captains license stating that if your license needs to be renewed you should be aware that there is going to be a long wait. But you still need to get it in to their office on time. The school also said you can give the CG a call but they will just tell you nothing is being processed at this time. Luckily I do not need to renew this year. So now we are just hoping to get our new documentation by the time we need to bring the boat down to Florida in May, I know that is 4 1/2 months away but I just can't help thinking something on one of those USCG forms is wrong which will set us back another month or two.

Good luck. In last shut downs, the NVDC seemed to build up 2-3 weeks of additional backlog for every week they were closed. We went through this with our last boat which we needed to move to a shipyard for some initial work. I tried to get the local USCG to agree that it was OK to transit with copies of our application and they would only say that it was up to the discretion of the boarding officer. I tried headquarters, BoatUS, and wasted hours. No one could get the USCG to commit that we would not get fined if boarded. This was just before documentation agents started issuing "Transit Letters" which state that they are processing the application. I haven't heard of anyone having a problem with these. It may be a way of the NVDC encouraging people to pay the few hundred dollars for hour of work it takes to do the application yourself. Having everything come from an outfit that does the applications constantly minimizes their time and effort in sending stuff back with mistakes or omissions. A large part of my business used to be submissions to the USCG for certificates of inspection, stability approval, etc. I know that submission packets that come from recognized professionals don’t “fall off the back of the desk” nearly as often as DIY submittals. We therefore used a service for our current boat since I knew we would have transited through many USCG districts before we saw our COD.

The “up to the discretion of the boarding officer” business really irks me. Why can’t they issue a policy? Another thing I know from my years of interaction with the Coast Guard is that, if a wet behind the ears or unreasonable line officer makes a boneheaded call, they will back him up 100% all the way to the highest levels of the appeals process. They may give him some guidance and advice later but they will never admit the mistake and will stick the poor mariner with the outcome. I know, I’ve flown to headquarters in DC and spent months getting stonewalled on some unimaginably stupid things. Unless there has been some cultural change in the 20 odd years since I stopped dealing with them, they will NEVER admit that a boarding officer did something dumb. Does anyone know of there is an actual USCG policy to back up the use of transit letter and application copies in lieu of a formal COD?

The USCG is also only part of the issue. It is also fully up to the discretion of the numerous local law enforcement whether they will consider you boat as being registered if a COD application is the only paperwork you have. Since fines generally accrue to the local agency and embellish monthly fitness reports, I’d hate to bet on an outcome. Those fines are generally manageable, however, unlike the $10,000 a day the USCG could hit you with.

Roger Long said:

The “up to the discretion of the boarding officer” business really irks me. Why can’t they issue a policy? .

Click to expand...

A boarding officer who is also not currently being paid and has been told no pay increase in 2019 if he does start getting paid again. Right now, routine boardings of the nature you'd normally be concerned are greatly reduced.

It's a pain, but you and other boaters just have to do what you have to do. Carry copies of all submissions and you should be ok. I've never heard of anyone not being in all the years of the CG having a huge backlog.

As shutdowns have become common and as the USCG is not part of the military but Homeland Security so gets hit by them, I'd also suggest doing things earlier than normal. All those concerned that they were losing a month of documentation by filing their renewal early are probably happy now that they did.

BandB said:

... and as the USCG is not part of the military but Homeland Security so gets hit by them,

Click to expand...

USCG is one of the 5 U.S. military branches.

But yes, they have a dual role as a law enforcement branch of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

-Chris

I can’t register our new to us boat in our name. The boat is documented. I can’t even delete documentation to be able to register it in SC.

Really kind of crazy.

ranger42c said:

USCG is one of the 5 U.S. military branches.

But yes, they have a dual role as a law enforcement branch of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

-Chris

Click to expand...

I think what was meant is that the Coast Guard is not under the Department of Defense, but is under the Department of Homeland Security (along with TSA, CBP, ICE, etc). Prior to the creation of DHS, the USCG was an agency under the Department of Transportation, not the Defense Department.

We are just in the process of buying a boat. Would like to close in 2 weeks. We'll see what happens. I always assumed as long as you have a signed purchase agreement on board you should be ok moving the boat.

ranger42c said:

USCG is one of the 5 U.S. military branches.

But yes, they have a dual role as a law enforcement branch of the Dept. of Homeland Security.

-Chris

Click to expand...

Actually they are not now part of the military as they fall 100% under the Department of Homeland Security. They may be military in nature, but not in form. If they were part of the military branch and under the Department of Defense, they'd be working and getting paid.

Sabre602 said:

I think what was meant is that the Coast Guard is not under the Department of Defense, but is under the Department of Homeland Security (along with TSA, CBP, ICE, etc). Prior to the creation of DHS, the USCG was an agency under the Department of Transportation, not the Defense Department.

Click to expand...

Yes, I should have said more appropriately they are not part of the Department of Defense, which is where all other military branches are.

As it relates to documentation:

In the absence of an enacted appropriation or continuing resolution, the Coast Guard is required to execute an orderly suspension of some operations and activities. In general, the Coast Guard will continue operations authorized by law that provide for national security, or that protect life and property. The Coast Guard will perform these exempt functions and activities even during a lapse in appropriations. All non-exempt functions and activities must be suspended or terminated. The term “function” in this context is not synonymous with our statutory missions.

and

Managers and supervisors of appropriated fund civilian employees must report to work to conduct orderly shutdown on 26 December 2018.

As to licensing:

Due to the partial government shutdown, the National Maritime Center (NMC) and all Regional Exam Centers (RECs) are closed until further notice. Customer walk-in service is suspended. Examinations and other REC appointments are cancelled, and REC appointment calendars are closed. Applications may continue to be e-mailed or mailed in and will be processed when the shutdown is over. The Customer Service Center call center will be open from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. EST, Monday through Friday to answer any questions. You may reach the call center at 1-888-IASKNMC (427-5662) and IASKNMC@uscg.mil.

BandB said:

Actually they are not now part of the military as they fall 100% under the Department of Homeland Security. They may be military in nature, but not in form. If they were part of the military branch and under the Department of Defense, they'd be working and getting paid.

Click to expand...

The Coast Guard is indeed a branch of the Military. They have operated under Treasury, Transportation, and now Homeland Security always as a branch of he Military. Just because the funding for the Coast Guard does not come from the Department of Defense does not mean they are not a branch of the Military. How do you explain the issuance of a DD-214 "Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty" to departing members of the Coast Guard? How do you explain their eligibility for GI bill benefits? How do you explain all the Military Medals I earned during my 28.5 years of service in the Coast Guard? A quick internet search might be in order.

processing documentation has always been slow. A few weeks of shut down wont add much to the slow process.

So do we get hit with fines?

Did you have a documentation service company handle your purchase? When we bought our current boat the service provided paperwork showing that the purchase had been sent to the documentation center. They said we could show it in case we were boarded.

Comodave said:

Did you have a documentation service company handle your purchase? When we bought our current boat the service provided paperwork showing that the purchase had been sent to the documentation center. They said we could show it in case we were boarded.

Click to expand...

I did not use a service, I wrongly thought I had plenty of time to get this done. The only paper I have is the CG bill of sale, the old Documentation from the PO, which will expire to soon, and copies of the paper work I sent.

Philkoury said:

The Coast Guard is indeed a branch of the Military. They have operated under Treasury, Transportation, and now Homeland Security always as a branch of he Military. Just because the funding for the Coast Guard does not come from the Department of Defense does not mean they are not a branch of the Military. How do you explain the issuance of a DD-214 "Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty" to departing members of the Coast Guard? How do you explain their eligibility for GI bill benefits? How do you explain all the Military Medals I earned during my 28.5 years of service in the Coast Guard? A quick internet search might be in order.

Click to expand...

Thanks for 28.5 years of your service.


Do you have any friends there you can call and get our Documentation paperwork put on the top of the pile. :lol:

If/when the shutdown ends, do the employees who stayed at work get back pay?
We have a different way of dealing with "Supply"(of money) issues. It worked, spectacularly, the one time I recall it being invoked.

Capitaine R said:

I did not use a service, I wrongly thought I had plenty of time to get this done. The only paper I have is the CG bill of sale, the old Documentation from the PO, which will expire to soon, and copies of the paper work I sent.

Click to expand...

Although not a guarantee, I think you will be good with that paperwork.

Capitaine R said:

I did not use a service, I wrongly thought I had plenty of time to get this done. The only paper I have is the CG bill of sale, the old Documentation from the PO, which will expire to soon, and copies of the paper work I sent.

Click to expand...

Same here

Steve91T said:

I can’t register our new to us boat in our name. The boat is documented. I can’t even delete documentation to be able to register it in SC.

Really kind of crazy.

Click to expand...

Steve, do you need the Documentation before you can register in S.C.? I was under the impression that here in Florida we can do and have to do both. Of course you do not receive a Florida title, just a reg sticker. And since our boat is older we get to register her as a Antique. I was trying to put off the Florida registration because she will not be in Florida until June. And if I read the law correctly I will have another 90 days to register her once it is in Florida, at which point I will need to cough up the sales Tax.

Capitaine R said:

Steve, do you need the Documentation before you can register in S.C.? I was under the impression that here in Florida we can do and have to do both. Of course you do not receive a Florida title, just a reg sticker. And since our boat is older we get to register her as a Antique. I was trying to put off the Florida registration because she will not be in Florida until June. And if I read the law correctly I will have another 90 days to register her once it is in Florida, at which point I will need to cough up the sales Tax.

Click to expand...

The problem is the boat is documented with the PO. I can’t change that. I can’t even delete documentation with the coast guard. I called SC and told her the situation. She explained that until I have the letter saying documention has been deleted, I cannot title the boat in my name.

I also had to call USAA and tell them I can’t list them as a lien holder because if this and they totally understand and said to not worry about it. They have a lot of people calling in with this issue.

So I’m going to just bring what paperwork I have and hope that if I’m boarded they understand.

Philkoury said:

The Coast Guard is indeed a branch of the Military. They have operated under Treasury, Transportation, and now Homeland Security always as a branch of he Military. Just because the funding for the Coast Guard does not come from the Department of Defense does not mean they are not a branch of the Military.

Click to expand...

At least they got their funding as needed. Saw this today...

https://www.maritime-executive.com/...wn-coast-guard-will-receive-december-paycheck

Also, ASD recently posted an article about the USCG Documentation renewal being extended to 5 years from today's annual renewal requirement. That should make it all 20% of the work. Wonder if they will allow 5 years for $23?

FlyWright said:

At least they got their funding as needed. Saw this today...

https://www.maritime-executive.com/...wn-coast-guard-will-receive-december-paycheck

Also, ASD recently posted an article about the USCG Documentation renewal being extended to 5 years from today's annual renewal requirement. That should make it all 20% of the work. Wonder if they will allow 5 years for $23?

Click to expand...

Actually, they didn't really get funding after 12/31. Active duty Coast Guard members will be working without pay, starting today (until the end of the shutdown.) Civilian Coast Guard employees, like my daughter, are furloughed.

I presume that documentation is likely handled by civilian Coast Guard employees and the pile of paperwork will continue to grow until the shutdown is over.

Any Coast Guard members or employees (as well as an other federal government employees) who are members of the Navy Federal Credit Union and get their paychecks directly deposited, are being offered, by NFCU, small loans that have 0% interest, no application fees, and no credit checks.

Jim

Philkoury said:

The Coast Guard is indeed a branch of the Military. They have operated under Treasury, Transportation, and now Homeland Security always as a branch of he Military. Just because the funding for the Coast Guard does not come from the Department of Defense does not mean they are not a branch of the Military. How do you explain the issuance of a DD-214 "Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty" to departing members of the Coast Guard? How do you explain their eligibility for GI bill benefits? How do you explain all the Military Medals I earned during my 28.5 years of service in the Coast Guard? A quick internet search might be in order.

Click to expand...

I corrected to Department of Defense and for the purpose of the discussion here they are not part of the military from a funding standpoint. They are not currently being paid while all the other military branches are. I'm not casting any light on the service in the CG. They're actually my favorite armed force.

In wartime the USCG was under the DOD, before Homeland Security. I suspect the same is still true. But someone will sue to block it, most likely.

Back when I was licensed, I as told that all it took was an order from a governor or president to make me active military. From some of the mail I get I wonder if I was on a short list for activation at some point.

Capitaine R said:

When we purchased the new to us Nordic Tug we promptly faxed off all the paper work needed to document the boat in our name. And of course we have no idea if the USCG actually got the paperwork, and now we have a Gov shutdown. I have also received an Email from the school I attended to acquire my Master Captains license stating that if your license needs to be renewed you should be aware that there is going to be a long wait. But you still need to get it in to their office on time. The school also said you can give the CG a call but they will just tell you nothing is being processed at this time. Luckily I do not need to renew this year. So now we are just hoping to get our new documentation by the time we need to bring the boat down to Florida in May, I know that is 4 1/2 months away but I just can't help thinking something on one of those USCG forms is wrong which will set us back another month or two.

Click to expand...

A few thoughts... why do you need the documentation? Are you visiting a foreign port? If you get pulled over, most will accept proof that you submitted and are waiting on the paperwork. If you do need it for some reason, I have gotten it processed in ONE WEEK by submitting a priority request per NVDC's instructions. I don't think it costs me anything extra. Also, if you bring a boat into Florida that you have not used elsewhere for 6+ months, you may owe tax to FL. I would read FL's regs to see if the boat needed to be registered for those 6+ months too because if its not been registered, i.e. in another state, then you may still owe tax. Easy solution some times is just getting a state reg if that makes sense for that state and so long as you don't trigger any extra tax. Finally, regarding your timing, make sure you have an insurance policy that fully insures you down south during hurricane season. You may have a significantly increased deductible. For that reason, I removed my last boat from the South by May.

Comodave said:

Did you have a documentation service company handle your purchase? When we bought our current boat the service provided paperwork showing that the purchase had been sent to the documentation center. They said we could show it in case we were boarded.

Click to expand...

I don't see any value-add in using a documentation service. Filing CG paperwork is easier than registering a vehicle/trailer at a DMV. Doc services charge hundreds for what you can do yourself for a fraction of the cost. I have had to use services when financing boats though as the lender required it but I picked a service that did it a lot cheaper than who they recommended and since I use the same company now they are good to me. A doc service letter is nothing magical. Keep a print out of your proof of submission to the CG on-board. That will work the same if not better than a random letter from a doc service.

mystery said:

A few thoughts... why do you need the documentation? Are you visiting a foreign port? If you get pulled over, most will accept proof that you submitted and are waiting on the paperwork. If you do need it for some reason, I have gotten it processed in ONE WEEK by submitting a priority request per NVDC's instructions. I don't think it costs me anything extra. Also, if you bring a boat into Florida that you have not used elsewhere for 6+ months, you may owe tax to FL. I would read FL's regs to see if the boat needed to be registered for those 6+ months too because if its not been registered, i.e. in another state, then you may still owe tax. Easy solution some times is just getting a state reg if that makes sense for that state and so long as you don't trigger any extra tax. Finally, regarding your timing, make sure you have an insurance policy that fully insures you down south during hurricane season. You may have a significantly increased deductible. For that reason, I removed my last boat from the South by May.

Click to expand...

Well like you said "most will accept proof that I submitted and are waiting on the Document", but I will no doubt get the one USCG or local law enforcement officer that won't. That is just my luck . Especially traveling thru 9 states without State registration numbers or stickers on display. And at this point, since I have already sent in my forms and with an on going Gov shut down, I don't know if a priority request will do me much good, but it is worth checking out. I have read the Florida law on paying taxes on a boat purchased in another state and I will definitely have to pay Florida sales tax once the boat is in the state for 90 days. I'm in no way trying to get out of paying the proper taxes. And even with a Documented boat you still have to register the boat in Florida if you plan to stay, and since we live here we plan to stay.

We have secured insurance on the boat thru the same company we have our autos and houses under. I am glad to say the deductible is very reasonable even under a named storm. The deductible is much less than it would cost to move the boat out of harms way since in this part of Florida the Hurricanes, at least in the recent past, have ended up tracking right where you would have thought it would have been safe when you listened to the forecast a few days before.