Running at night on the Bahama Banks

700 ft on the bank must be some kind of flat bottomed thing![emoji15]

Jeez

jimisbell said:

I am reading this thread as a person that has NEVER sailed these waters in anything less than 700 feet long and filtering it through the brain of an aircraft pilot.

Nothing is more important than taking your time and doing it right AND SAFE. Pilots in a hurry usually have short lives. Need I mention John Kennedy Jr?

Also, is the thing you are hurrying to and will miss if things go wrong, be worth the cost of fixing the error AND missing the appointment?

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What does any of his have to do with routing? The charts of the bank are generally accurate. He can figure or whether the sea state is good enough. Let's not over think this.

We went from Ft. Pierce to the Bank and entered just a little south of Mantanilla (?) shoal. Right on the NW corner of the bank. That went well.

To the OP, are you going to tow a skiff at 16kt offshore? That can really be a problem. Skiffs can go NUTS in an offshore tow at that speed.

Towed a 10' RIB with a 9.9 outboard with a 43' cruiser.
8kts. looked back, all fine.
10kts same.
12kts same.
14kts same.
16kts looked over my shoulder and dink was 30' in the air spinning like a top. My 9.9 is on the bottom of Lake Ontario.

It was a short 25mile trip and I was too lazy to hike the dink up in the davits.
Lesson learned.

k9medic said:

Tingum,

Molly already has a slip set up for me so I won't be on the fuel dock. The big "push" is so that I have time to get back for a commitment on two days later. If I push through that gives me some wiggle room with a day extra if I get delayed. My business partner is going to fly our plane down and pick me up the following day, whatever day that is (You replied on another forum about our airplane purchase.)

Maybe I'll just crash at your place! I think I scared one of the renters there when we went by there back in November.

If we split up the trip that means one of two things -

1. Stuart to Great Sale, which gets us there around 1530, leaving a lot of daylight on the table, then the next morning another 8 hour ride.

2. Stuart to somewhere east of Great Sale, stopping around 1830 around Foxtown, then the next morning a 3 to 4 hour ride.

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Schedules while boating - always a bad idea, always.

cafesport said:

All I’ve got to add to the good advice that’s already been given is to no longer trust the new garmin/ navionics nav apps. We just arrived in the abacos and several of the known skinny areas are now showing more than adequate depth. You mentioned don’t rock so you are probably already aware of the fact that it’s 3.5’ at low tide. Previously the navionics charts were accurate here but the new updates show 8’ 4” which is dangerously off. To the south they average over 4’ higher as well. Odd thing is the garmin on our dink plotter and the old blue chart app still have this area right.

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Have you shared your experience with Navionics?

Wow, a lot of stuff going on here, along with a long of info that was missed from the initial post.

From Stuart until we get on the bank, we will run fast and the smaller boat will fall in behind me. This will be a 16kt crossing so if we leave around 0530 we should get to White Sand Ridge by 0900. From there we still have another 100nm to go to our destination.

The plan is to slow down to 8kts or so and tow the smaller boat the rest of the way.

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I will have somebody driving the "tow boat" over when we cross to the banks, from there I will tow it. It's a 19' boat and there is no way I would pull it over 8 kts.


Stuart to Great Sale is the only route. You either come on the banks at White Sand or at Memory Rocks. Either way you are going to have a little bit of an interaction with the stream. I have done Stuart to Memory Rocks to Great Sale a few times. Just never Stuart to White Sand to Great Sale.

As for the schedule, I agree 100%. This is more of a plan written in pencil and set in jello. You have to start somewhere and if preferred, I would rather do it all in one day. Due to fuel burns, I do not want to run at 16kts. the entire way. Additionally, since I can't tow that fast anyway, the tow boat does not have enough fuel to do the same so I would have to tanker fuel.

In a perfect world, going fast across the stream allows us to limit our exposure for weather and lumpy seas. If we left at 0530 or so, we would be on the banks before 0900. Typically that is before wind and waves start to pick up.

I'm on a weekend trip right now where we pulled a 16' whaler behind us the entire way at 8kts. Seas were 2-3 with 15kt winds.


I have plans A, B and C already mapped out along with D in the works...

You are overthinking this. Chances are any plan you make you will change once you get out and see what the stream is doing. You may decide to tow the smaller boat right from the beginning once you see how it behaves. Make sure it's auto bilge pump works! Rig a radar reflector on it just in case you have to go looking for it! Don't ask! As for Memory or White ridges that call can be made once you see the conditions. Stay flexible! I don't think Foxtown after dark is a good idea. Rocky entrance.

jimisbell said:

I am reading this thread as a person that has NEVER sailed these waters in anything less than 700 feet long and filtering it through the brain of an aircraft pilot.

Nothing is more important than taking your time and doing it right AND SAFE. Pilots in a hurry usually have short lives. Need I mention John Kennedy Jr?

Also, is the thing you are hurrying to and will miss if things go wrong, be worth the cost of fixing the error AND missing the appointment?

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There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but few old bold pilots.
substitute pilots for captains at your own risk.

I always cross from Stuart to White Sand Ridge, and then up to Grand where we clear in and spend the night. We are a 14 to 15 knot boat.


Just my two cents, but if it were me and I was trying to get as far as I could in one day, as long as I didn't have a west wind, I would look at pulling into Allen's to spend the night. Get up early the next day and it's an easy three hour run to GTC, you could be there by 9:00. Allen's is easy to enter and exit. Only issue is that the holding there sucks if you don't get a sand spot, which could be tough to find in the dark.


Great Sale is a little out of the way as the anchorage is a little south of the ideal route.


As far as the banks at night, just give the various banks (especially Stranger's and Carter's) a wide berth and you should be fine.


No matter what you do though that is going to be a long day, it's tiring pulling/dealing with two boats. Sounds fun though!

No problem

I have made six crossing to Marsh from Lake Worth or Stuart, sometimes direct to Marsh, sometimes to Allen’s, sometimes via Great Sale and Spanish. I tow a 17’ skiff with a 47’ trawler at 7.5 knots. Never any problem crossing the bank at night, using radar, any vessels encountered were well lit, including those anchored. I would caution anchoring on the east of Great Sale as an acquaintance tucked in too close a few years ago, and missed a sandbar just off shore. A sudden thunderstorm blew his round hull trawler abeam to the sand bar and rolled him over wrecking the boat. There is little help in the Bahamas for these mistakes, they had to get in touch with tow boat in Ft Lauderdale and there is no cheap way out.

Happens...

Group9 said:

A friend of mine just tore both his lower units off a few months ago in the Abacos running fast at night, a mile from his house, by hitting a rock he knew about and thought he was well clear of.

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Excellent point. Running on visual references at night can be very dangerous as daylight references won't be there (visible) causing frequent vector errors in judgement when using these references. Your night vision can be great but (especially) if you are in familiar waters, you may not be aware of how much you rely on triangulation of familiar day marks.

This happens frequently even to experienced mariners and Navy ships.

When traveling at night there is no substitute for accurate instrumentation (radar, gps plotter, sonar) and good navigation skills.

stubones99 said:

There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but few old bold pilots.

substitute pilots for captains at your own risk.

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I do both. One professionally, and I agree.



I’m familiar with the southern anchorage but not planning on anchoring at Great Sale, only passing on the north side.

k9medic said:

I do both. One professionally, and I agree.



I’m familiar with the southern anchorage but not planning on anchoring at Great Sale, only passing on the north side.

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Your attitude determines your altitude...

catalinajack said:

Have you shared your experience with Navionics?

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Yes I have, but still nothing back from garmin or navionics. Guess I’ll find out at the Miami boat show.