Boat Heating Advice

Bulkhead mount drip heaters

I've only had electric heat in the past and am wondering about the Dickenson-type of passive heaters. They seem about as reliable and low maintenance as possible.


So with a couple of units installed, say one in the salon and the other below in the stateroom area, would that be sufficient with good air circulation to heat the whole boat reliably?

"May already be mentioned by others, but a boat with only electric heat would be a non starter for a lot of potential buyers."

A diesel heater with fans ,pumps, and juice required to operate is still locked into the power pole long term .

If someone is cruising in cold waters , or winter operating this will be a big factor in heat decisions.

FF said:

"May already be mentioned by others, but a boat with only electric heat would be a non starter for a lot of potential buyers."

A diesel heater with fans ,pumps, and juice required to operate is still locked into the power pole long term .

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At a fraction of the electrical consumption, allowing comfortable heat without a genset running 24x7.

makobuilders said:

I've only had electric heat in the past and am wondering about the Dickenson-type of passive heaters. They seem about as reliable and low maintenance as possible.


So with a couple of units installed, say one in the salon and the other below in the stateroom area, would that be sufficient with good air circulation to heat the whole boat reliably?

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Absolutely. Ours supplements hydronic heat and the single unit in the saloon heats that space, the gallery and the pilot house.

We are “living aboard” right now in Vancouver Harbour. Currently, we have two Caframo heaters running on the low setting (500 watts each) and a 23 pint dehumidifier running @ 300 watts. At 4 degrees C outside we are quite warm inside. The hot water tank is also on but is pretty much idling. No moisture inside, even with cooking and showering. The smart plug boatside connection is cool to the touch.

We have a Webasto hydronic setup that we use when we shower as it really heats heats the water quickly and we shut off the electricity to the water heater. We then dry the towels in the drier (moisture management). This approach keeps me under the 30 amp limit.

Edit:

If the temperature goes below freezing, say -5 overnight, we pretty much need the Webasto on in the morning and at night, although we shut it off while sleeping.

Jim

FF said:

"May already be mentioned by others, but a boat with only electric heat would be a non starter for a lot of potential buyers."

A diesel heater with fans ,pumps, and juice required to operate is still locked into the power pole long term .

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I can run the Hurricane hydronic indefinitely without plugging in. A couple of solar panels is all it takes. This is the 21st century, you can have electricity without a plug or a genset.

Boat heat

I also have the hurricane 2 hydronic heater. With three thermostats. Used down to thirty degrees constant 70 inside a forty footer. Option to use diesel or electric with a flick of a switch.

Has anyone with the hydronic system ever installed the heating loops under the flooring (instead of using a radiator), similar to a radiant system in a home?

This would seem to be ideal in the bathrooms/heads with ceramic tile flooring.

DDW said:

I can run the Hurricane hydronic indefinitely without plugging in. A couple of solar panels is all it takes.

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Not this time of year in the PNW. Your batteries will run down real quick with 20 amps of Webasto running 24/7.

makobuilders said:

Has anyone with the hydronic system ever installed the heating loops under the flooring (instead of using a radiator), similar to a radiant system in a home?

This would seem to be ideal in the bathrooms/heads with ceramic tile flooring.

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It could work well, if well designed. But it might be more trouble than necessary.

My hydronic system was originally all passive radiators, no fans, with the length of the radiator sized to the heating needs. The ones in the heads are not that long, but right-sized and not really intrusive. It was all well done, by someone in Seattle I believe.

During my refit we replaced the heater hose in the hydronic system with PEX. At the same time I eliminated built-in electric fan heater in the pilothouse and in the master stateroom, installing air handlers with fans in the hydronic loop instead. Now I have only spent a little time in colder areas such as BC (and not winter!) after this, I have never needed to use the fans. The boat just stays warm throughout. It has a thermostat in the salon to automatically turn the Webasto on/off as required.

There is an engine loop for the hydronic plumbing so the Webasto is not needed underway. Also, I have a 'summer loop' for the Webasto which by-passes all of the radiators in the boat, it just goes to the hot water heater. So at anchor in summer I just run the Webasto for 30 minutes and it provides hot water but does not heat up the boat. A well designed hydronic system is truly a joy!

Airstream345 said:

We have hydronic (Hurricane) and love it. Easy to use, great output and a water heater loop. Ours has an engine loop as well so we have “free” heat and hot water when underway. Toasty warm.

As Delfin mentioned resale value would be better too. Electric heaters say “condo boat” to potential buyers.

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I have a Hurricane as well and it works great. The Hurricane also has an electric option as well. I believe they have 1 or 2 1,500 watt electric elements that heat the water when you are on shore power. It would need a separate 30 amp power input I think.

dhays said:

I have a Hurricane as well and it works great. The Hurricane also has an electric option as well. I believe they have 1 or 2 1,500 watt electric elements that heat the water when you are on shore power. It would need a separate 30 amp power input I think.

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I have the Hurricane with the electric option. The option consists of a small tank with two 1500 watt heating elements and yes you need a 30 amp power input.

A point of note. Two 1500 watt heating elements can not produce near as much heat as the diesel furnace. It is however completely quiet.

tiltrider1 said:

I have the Hurricane with the electric option. The option consists of a small tank with two 1500 watt heating elements and yes you need a 30 amp power input.



A point of note. Two 1500 watt heating elements can not produce near as much heat as the diesel furnace. It is however completely quiet.

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If it is really cold, do you find that you can turn on both the electric and the diesel furnace to very rapidly heat up the boat then turn off the diesel? A dockmate and I were talking about the possibility of adding the electric option. He is living aboard his sailboat and also has a Hurricane furnace and like me doesn’t have the electric option.

It seems to me that in the PNW much of the time the electric would be plenty to keep a boat comfortable. For us, since we don’t live aboard and don’t spend that much time at marinas, it probably isn’t worth the expense and work of adding.

dhays said:

If it is really cold, do you find that you can turn on both the electric and the diesel furnace to very rapidly heat up the boat then turn off the diesel? A dockmate and I were talking about the possibility of adding the electric option. He is living aboard his sailboat and also has a Hurricane furnace and like me doesn’t have the electric option.

It seems to me that in the PNW much of the time the electric would be plenty to keep a boat comfortable. For us, since we don’t live aboard and don’t spend that much time at marinas, it probably isn’t worth the expense and work of adding.

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The diesel heats so fast that you wouldn’t notice a significant difference from running both. In my case the aquastats on the electric shut down before the ones on the diesel furnace. If my diesel couldn’t keep up then maybe turning on the electric would make the difference, I have never had the diesel not keep up. If the system is cold I turn the diesel on to reach temp and then switch to electric. My electric option is only 3000 watts. This is only enough heat for the 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms. The rest of the boat is heated by 2 heat pumps. The heat pump in the bedroom makes to much noise. This is why we added the electric option. Keeps the bedrooms warm and it’s quiet.

I would only recomend the electric option if noise is an issue or if you wanted to keep hydronic heat on while you are away from the boat.

JDCAVE said:

Not this time of year in the PNW. Your batteries will run down real quick with 20 amps of Webasto running 24/7.

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I don't have a Webasto, and I think you put your finger on one of the reasons. I have a ITR Hurricane II and it will absolutely keep the boat warm this time of year in the PNW, without plugging in. It draws about 8 amps when running, and runs at something less than a 40% duty cycle with outside temps around 10 F.

I would second the recommendation to visit Sure Marine (right next to Fisheries Supply). I have bought several heater blowers and other parts from them. We installed the ITR Hurricane L2 hydronic system on our boat so we could live in the Baltimore harbor for six winters. Very quiet and consistent heat throughout the boat. The exhaust is ducted outside so we had no diesel smell.
We tried electric space heaters with 50amp service to the boat but we could only run 3 heaters at a time, and then juggle other electrical use. Popping the pier breaker at 10pm in 15 degree weather really sucks.
We also put plastic shrink film over all windows and two of the three doors on the boat. We used 1" x 48" Styrofoam boards (home depot cheap) behind items in lockers and upholstered cushions. We used a dehumidifier when needed.
Lastly, we used an electric mattress pad on the master bed.

Good luck.

HenryD said:

I would second the recommendation to visit Sure Marine (right next to Fisheries Supply).

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Did one of them move? Sure Marine is/was right by the ballard lock, and Fisheries is across from Gas Light park on lk Union.

Yeah, my thought was to turn on the diesel initially to get the system up to temp quickly. Depending on the electric rates, the electric might be cheaper, no exhaust smell for the neighbors, and as you say, quieter. My dockmate with the Hurricane says that where it is located in the sailboat it is pretty loud in their cabin. In our boat, it isn’t loud at all inside.

twistedtree said:

Did one of them move? Sure Marine is/was right by the ballard lock, and Fisheries is across from Gas Light park on lk Union.

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No, they haven't moved. Your locations for both are correct.

dhays said:

Yeah, my thought was to turn on the diesel initially to get the system up to temp quickly. Depending on the electric rates, the electric might be cheaper, no exhaust smell for the neighbors, and as you say, quieter. My dockmate with the Hurricane says that where it is located in the sailboat it is pretty loud in their cabin. In our boat, it isn’t loud at all inside.

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The electric option might be right for them. Doesn’t sound like it’s worth the effort for you. Adding the electric tank is one part, then you have to add the wire, junction box, circuit breakers, and relays so the boiler won’t turn on if the circulation pump is off.

As a liveaboard/workaboard family in Port Ludlow, WA we use a Wallas 40Dt. Runs 24/7 for 7+ months a year since 2014. Works great (we get it serviced every 18 months), very quiet (neighbors don't even know it's running), low amp draw and seems very fuel efficient (we average @1gal/24 hrs). One should be fine for a 40-foot boat.

And while I agree that talking to Sure Marine is a good idea, also visit the folks at Scan Marine as they are the only Wallas dealers.

1985 Kha Shing

That's the kind of boat WE have!

abe313 said:

The boat is equipped with an older Epar D4 diesel forced air heater (The orange one). The heater does not work at the moment and the service tech said that he would not work on diesel heaters of that era because they are unsafe to repair and put back into service.

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First off, there is no substitute for forced air diesel heat. It's really civilized.


I'd get a second opinion on the existing Espar. Since you are in Seattle I second the suggestion of Sure Marine.



If it is not repairable drop in a replacement. This is somewhat more complex than replacing a light bulb. Combustion air in, exhaust out, domestic air in, domestic air out, one fuel line (no return), and the thermostat/control/power cable. Four hose clamps, a screw on fuel line, and a handful of little color-coded wires.

The numbers you received for replacement are way high.

Insequent said:

There is an engine loop for the hydronic plumbing so the Webasto is not needed underway. Also, I have a 'summer loop' for the Webasto which by-passes all of the radiators in the boat, it just goes to the hot water heater. So at anchor in summer I just run the Webasto for 30 minutes and it provides hot water but does not heat up the boat. A well designed hydronic system is truly a joy!

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That is a slick setup. I'm going to need to look into that for our system.

I am not a fan of espar or webasto. I like the Wallace for boats 40’ and less. If you have the room i’m a fan of the IRT Hurricane. Reason being they are so easy to trouble shoot and maintain.

Both Sure Marine and Scan Marine are trusted sources for services. For IRT Hurricane there is McPhearson Marine in Seattle.

I went through the same exercise some months ago and replaced my Eberspacher heater with a Finnish made device by Safire. It is beautifully made with a 3mm stainless steel case. Installation was straightforward and the unit works beautifully. Mine is arranged to obtain its' air feed from outside, thus providing some forced air ventilation of the cabin. I purchased mine from Mart Verheul of Amrit Techniek in Amsterdam. His service was excellent and the unit has exceeded my expectaions.


Bill Grace
African Queen
Wellington
New Zealand

billg said:

I went through the same exercise some months ago and replaced my Eberspacher heater with a Finnish made device by Safire. It is beautifully made with a 3mm stainless steel case. Installation was straightforward and the unit works beautifully. Mine is arranged to obtain its' air feed from outside, thus providing some forced air ventilation of the cabin. I purchased mine from Mart Verheul of Amrit Techniek in Amsterdam. His service was excellent and the unit has exceeded my expectaions.


Bill Grace
African Queen
Wellington
New Zealand

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The safire units look interesting. We have the espar D8LC units and if we ever had to replace I'd like something that plugs in easily in place of the espar. If you don't mind me asking, how much was the safire unit?

The Safire looks interesting, but their largest is only 3.6 KW output (12Kbtu). Adequate for a small boat or mild climate. You could install several of them I guess.

DDW said:

The Safire looks interesting, but their largest is only 3.6 KW output (12Kbtu). Adequate for a small boat or mild climate. You could install several of them I guess.

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Ah. Yeah. Less than half the D8LC

I spent a good part of last winter rebuilding our older webasto hl 32 diesel heater. Sure marine in Seattle told me to throw it away as there where no parts available and it was to old to service....well....I spent more time then I would have paid somebody to work on it but I found a rebuilt kit on ebay(shipped from England) and now have a completely rebuilt working heater that cost me under $200. for parts... you can email me if you want more information about what I learned in the process...
good luck..I probably would have bought a new heater but they are SO EXPENSIVE....