Why do watermen feel so entitled?

I was a commercial fisherman for 25 years in the Gulf of Maine. I also served two three year terms on the New England Fishery managemant council. A fishing boat typically has a limited amount of time to harvest there fish and return that perrishable product to port. There is usually land crew and trucks waiting on them. To make them go at idle at any point of there journey is problematic and difficult to do especially if it is just seasonal.
The lobsterman or crabbers are a different story they fish closer to shore in and around channels. They are there almost everyday baiting there traps and they do tend to develop a sense of ownership. They forget the fact that it is a public resource they are allowed to access. In Maine the lobster industry has become more of a aquaculture program. They feed those lobsters everyday until one day they are to big to get out of the trap escape panel. There is 70,000 metric tons of lobster bait put into the northeast coast ocean every year.

Bud

psneeld said:

Not sure I have ever heard watermen used with recreational endeavors.

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Surfers are considered water-people. Laird Hamilton has called himself one in an interview he gave 10-15 years ago. It was the first time I had ever heard the term and have used it ever since when I find someone that lives, plays, and works comfortably in and around the water. Recreational or professional, it doesn't matter.

Oh I believe it does, like calling boats whatever that do many here argue about...

Water people and watermen are 2 different terms.

I have been on, next to, or above the water my whole life and still haven't heard the term "watermen" ever applied to recreational stuff.

Heck I have earned money on the water one way or another for over 40 years and don't remotely consider me as a "waterman"....maybe a "water person"....

No surfer bum or pro kayaker is gonna change that in my mind.

Watermen is a time honored profession...earning ones living on the water....hundreds of years old in the Northeast and mid Atlantic

But it doesn't mean that all of them on the water are honorable.

I would say, from sixty years of observations, that the distribution of a-holes in the human race is pretty uniform, no matter what profession, income level, or education.

Greetings,
Mr. ps. "Watermen is a time honored profession" and Mr. 9 "...distribution of a-holes in the human race is pretty uniform..."


BOTH comments right on the money! This whole thread shouldn't even be a topic of discussion IMO.

psneeld said:

Oh I believe it does, like calling boats whatever that do many here argue about...

Water people and watermen are 2 different terms.

I have been on, next to, or above the water my whole life and still haven't heard the term "watermen" ever applied to recreational stuff.

Heck I have earned money on the water one way or another for over 40 years and don't remotely consider me as a "waterman"....maybe a "water person"....

No surfer bum or pro kayaker is gonna change that in my mind.

Watermen is a time honored profession...earning ones living on the water....hundreds of years old in the Northeast and mid Atlantic

But it doesn't mean that all of them on the water are honorable.

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Miriam Webster (and I) agree with you, Scott. But then I found this:

https://www.surfersjournal.com/feature/what-the-hell-is-a-waterman/

Language evolves and, if you can get past the writer’s keyboard incontinence, it’s surprising to see it’s apparently a much-used term in the surfing world.

Also obvious to me that the OP’s complaint is the bell-curve at work. The watermen I observed leaving the dock every morning near our slip on the Chesapeake hardly made a ripple.

Watermen? I’ve worked with the commercial fishing industry for 40 years and this is the first I’ve heard the term. I’m pretty sure they don’t refer to themselves as “watermen”.

Group9 said:

I would say, from sixty years of observations, that the distribution of a-holes in the human race is pretty uniform, no matter what profession, income level, or education.

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What about politicians, contingency lawyers, used car salesmen and hurricane repair contractors? Heck, recent studies show that there is a much higher percentage of sociopaths in CEO positions than in the general population.

JDCAVE said:

Watermen? I’ve worked with the commercial fishing industry for 40 years and this is the first I’ve heard the term. I’m pretty sure they don’t refer to themselves as “watermen”.

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As was stated earlier they do in the Chesapeake Bay and Delaware Bay areas.

angus99 said:

Miriam Webster (and I) agree with you, Scott. But then I found this:

https://www.surfersjournal.com/feature/what-the-hell-is-a-waterman/

Language evolves and, if you can get past the writer’s keyboard incontinence, it’s surprising to see it’s apparently a much-used term in the surfing world.

Also obvious to me that the OP’s complaint is the bell-curve at work. The watermen I observed leaving the dock every morning near our slip on the Chesapeake hardly made a ripple.

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I’m thinking that the short Stone Crab season may have something to do with their impatience, that and the Tragedy of the Commons.

angus99 said:

Miriam Webster (and I) agree with you, Scott. But then I found this:

https://www.surfersjournal.com/feature/what-the-hell-is-a-waterman/

Language evolves and, if you can get past the writer’s keyboard incontinence, it’s surprising to see it’s apparently a much-used term in the surfing world.

Also obvious to me that the OP’s complaint is the bell-curve at work. The watermen I observed leaving the dock every morning near our slip on the Chesapeake hardly made a ripple.

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From that article....

"It’s all more than a bit silly, of course, the type of thing that a real waterman—whoever that turns out to be—wouldn’t have the time of day for. Which brings us to the question at hand."

Like the concept of the movie "The right stuff'".... If you feel the need to talk about it, you probably ain't it.

Greetings,
Forgot to add (post #35). I don't even feel qualified to call myself captain although legally, I suppose, I am...Maybe I should get the hat.

Tom.B said:

Surfers are considered water-people. Laird Hamilton has called himself one in an interview he gave 10-15 years ago. It was the first time I had ever heard the term and have used it ever since when I find someone that lives, plays, and works comfortably in and around the water. Recreational or professional, it doesn't matter.

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Surfed a lot and have lots of mates who still surf, not once have I heard the term.

I think its an american thing, like calling anyone with a pulse and a boat "captain" whereas for most anywhere else in the world a captain is a " high-grade licensed mariner who holds ultimate command and responsibility of a merchant vessel."

Its like calling me Dr, because can open a packet of aspirin.

Woodland Hills said:

What about politicians, contingency lawyers, used car salesmen and hurricane repair contractors? Heck, recent studies show that there is a much higher percentage of sociopaths in CEO positions than in the general population.

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Well, I would respectfully submit, that there is a substantial difference between a sociopath and an a-hole, albeit with considerable overlap at times. In my job, I've had occasion to interview sociopaths, who had committed several murders, who were quite charming, and very likable (how else do they get elected and sell all of those cars?).

Discourteous and dangerous are not a universally common personality trait.

Simi 60 said:

You do realise its a two way street right?
They put food on your table and you put money in their pocket.
Respect is deserved both ways.

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Agreed, respect is certainly a two way street. I’ve seen my share of dink recreational boaters ripping through grass beds and fisheries with no regard for the consequences. Same with rec boaters throwing a wake in a dockage area. I home port in a fishing town and respect my neighbors. Glad to pay my neighbors for putting food on my table.

The difference iis most of those rec boaters are just ignorant of laws, customs and courtesies...and have little time on the water.

The watermen have few or no excuses.

psneeld said:

With 20+years in USCG fisheries enforcement (and a VERY good friend a long lerm NMFS field agent...plus others at both fed and state level) and another 15 years on the water full time as a pro captain (working with all kinds of captains)...

The general consensus was there was the full range of personalities running those boats ( both US and internationally).

Go back in history and think how many jumped into illegal activities at every turn of the page.

As I said before....sorta like sportsmen in general....I am proud to call some friends and I was glad to face some in court and put them out of business. Some are conservation minded and help educate the powers to be, others are out there raping the resource to the last one.

Look at even how they treat their crews....some could care less and take sinkers waiting to happen out to sea...others are top shelf kinda guys.

I could go on forever.

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Please do not. Respectfully no need to. In response to you and the OP, some good, some bad. Generalizations do not make the cut. We are naturally up in arms over those who transgress, usually silent about those whom do not.

averybill said:

Agreed, respect is certainly a two way street. I’ve seen my share of dink recreational boaters ripping through grass beds and fisheries with no regard for the consequences. Same with rec boaters throwing a wake in a dockage area. I home port in a fishing town and respect my neighbors. Glad to pay my neighbors for putting food on my table.

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Off topic but what is a bushel of oysters costing there? The resale retail price here in Gainesville is butt ugly! It has been a few years but we used to fish out of Indian Pass. On the way home stop in Apalachicola and load up a cooler with oysters. Recall something on the order of $20/bushel.

friz said:

Off topic but what is a bushel of oysters costing there? The resale retail price here in Gainesville is butt ugly! It has been a few years but we used to fish out of Indian Pass. On the way home stop in Apalachicola and load up a cooler with oysters. Recall something on the order of $20/bushel.

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Sadly the bay has been crushed by freshwater shortages, saltwater parasite intrusion and recently hurricane damage. No $20 bushels. Local houses are processing Louisiana and Texas oysters. Very sad. I’ll check the price when I get back down but you better sit down when you read it.

Woodland Hills said:

What about politicians, contingency lawyers, used car salesmen and hurricane repair contractors? Heck, recent studies show that there is a much higher percentage of sociopaths in CEO positions than in the general population.

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Woodland,

Spot on... there are some occupations that deserve the reputations they get.

I could argue that EVERYONE on the water be treated equally. NO one has any rights over the other.

Why the hell should someone have special benefits because they are making money at their job? I think most of us have had a job at times and why should you get special privileges for that position?

Going thru a bridge or a lock should be first come, first serves will little exception.

Just because it's a "hard job" and you have to get your ass up in the morning is no excuse for special treatment. Most of us have done that without any "special" rights. YOU chose the profession, if you can't take it, quit, and take up golf.

Rant off......

Seevee said:

I could argue that EVERYONE on the water be treated equally. NO one has any rights over the other.

Why the hell should someone have special benefits because they are making money at their job? I think most of us have had a job at times and why should you get special privileges for that position?

Going thru a bridge or a lock should be first come, first serves will little exception.

Just because it's a "hard job" and you have to get your ass up in the morning is no excuse for special treatment. Most of us have done that without any "special" rights. YOU chose the profession, if you can't take it, quit, and take up golf.

Rant off......

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Because we’re not equal. Federal locks on the larger rivers were justified and built primarily to accommodate commercial traffic and are still operated that way. Thousands of jobs depend on the cargo being transported and you and I—as recreational boaters—are a lower priority.

Still, the vast majority of lockmasters and bridge tenders we encountered worked us in at the first opportunity and held locks and bridges open if we called ahead or they saw us coming.

I do agree with you that the rules of the road and courtesy should apply equally to everyone on the water.

I first heard the term "watermen" in England. It conjured up a mature person, not necessarily a "man", working the waterways, in a highly skilled respectful and competent way.
Here it seems to represent a class of persons who earn their living on the water and treat everyone else, especially recreational boaters, with contempt. Of course there are exceptions.
These "watermen" sound much like many of the members of our building industry. Maybe the attitude goes with expertise in an industry where the workers are few and the result of their labour is highly sought after, so they feel they can piss people off without disadvantaging themselves.

"This may be true, but is irrelevant to the question of why the pros ignore no-wake rules in the harbor here."


Because there is No DOWNSIDE for them.

FF said:

"This may be true, but is irrelevant to the question of why the pros ignore no-wake rules in the harbor here."


Because there is No DOWNSIDE for them.

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There are for the Manatees that are the reason for the no-wake zone in the first place.

Do the manatees raid the crab traps or eat hooked fish off of the line like seals in the PNW and BC? I’m trying to figure out why the pros are so indifferent to their fate and disregarding of common sense measures to protect them.

I suppose it is naive to think those that earned a living from the sea and Gods creatures would be good stewards of that bounty as opposed to simply exploiting it for short term gain.

I think the point was, they can, so they do, and not much if anything ever happens to them....

That is if they are OK, but luckily some of the real dipshi*s run afoul of bigger law and pay dearly.

"There are for the Manatees that are the reason for the no-wake zone in the first place."

The FL Manatees are reproducing like crazy , and I believe are now off the endangered list.

My bride is at last able to publish her Manatee Cook Book!

FF said:

The FL Manatees are reproducing like crazy , and I believe are now off the endangered list.

My bride is at last able to publish her Manatee Cook Book!

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I don't know whether manatees taste good, but I know they have good taste.

Transiting the ICW in Florida, I noticed that there were lots of "manatee zone" signs alongside the more upscale neighborhoods, while the lower-rent areas has few or none. Clearly the manatees only live in the "good" part of town! I'm sure it has nothing to do with the political clout of the wealthier property owners.

Horse pucky, manatee signs are all over where needed.

CaptTom said:

I don't know whether manatees taste good, but I know they have good taste.

Transiting the ICW in Florida, I noticed that there were lots of "manatee zone" signs alongside the more upscale neighborhoods, while the lower-rent areas has few or none. Clearly the manatees only live in the "good" part of town! I'm sure it has nothing to do with the political clout of the wealthier property owners.

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Perhaps the same environmental factors that attract manatees also attract upscale homebuyers? Clear freshwater springs, low pollution, waterfront locations and yes, manatees are also of interest to homebuyers and will raise land values encouraging more expensive houses in places where these things are present.