Why Millennials are not Buying Boats

RT Firefly said:

Granted, there ARE a large number of skilled trades in the construction industry but there are a vastly greater number of laborers that need no skills other than the ability to put on a hard hat. I doubt too many illegals can be classed as skilled.


I am quite willing to be corrected if you could please link to the article you mentioned. I am also unaware of the trade you describe as "Reinforcing workers" I would also appreciate THAT job description. Thanks

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You'd be surprised how many are skilled in various trades, and how entrepreneurial they are in developing small businesses (and as a result, yes, paying various taxes!). My daughter, a millennial (who loves boating BTW), is an immigration attorney for a firm that primarily serves corporations, institutions and professionals. In other words, people who want to do things "right". People are waiting 20 years to get a green card processed for instance. There is so much bigoted and tinfoil hat disinformation about immigration it is mind boggling.

caltexflanc said:

Take into account the number of wage earners in a household, education levels and other demographic factors.Here's a pretty good article on the subject.

Explaining US income inequality by household demographics, 2016 edition - AEI

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The single parent household income is telling.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan called it in 1967 in “The Negro Family: A Case For Action”. Destruction of the traditional family structure through well intenioned and sincere, but shortsided, welfare policies was mostly a black problem then, but it affects every race now. We should have listened.

It’s probably too late, now.

BandB said:

Wifey B: If college and majors was only about smart math, you'd never have any teachers. I got a bachelor's, master's and doctorate to start a career as a first year teacher. Lousy financial, but very worth it and rewarding.

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This statement is more of a reflection of the state of the education system in the US. In other countries educators are a much higher status class than in the US.

Our southern California YC is experiencing a significant increase in younger members, including some actual boat-owning millennials.

MYTraveler said:

Our southern California YC is experiencing a significant increase in younger members, including some actual boat-owning millennials.

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So has our Chattanooga sailing club—for two reasons. We built a new clubhouse that’s party- and family-friendly. We also have a very active sail camp that prepares kids for a lifetime sport. Pulling in the kids also attracts their parents. As a result, we have lots of very active members from Millenials to Generation Old F**t.

Folks, please? We’re talking about why millennials are not buying boats. Posts may be deleted if they are off course. Thanks in advance.

Greetings,
Mr. LM. I deleted my post. You are correct, of course. Sorry, I panicked...

Coming back to the topic I think it's wrongheaded to blame customers (millennials) for preferring short term, sharing economy options. My parents bought Chevy's and Fords with V8’s in them. My friends and I bought 4 banger Honda's and Toyotas because they were cheaper to own, more reliable and burned less fuel. Was that Gen-X's fault? Nope, just the entrance of more and arguably better options in the automobile market in the 70’s and 80’s.

So why blame an entire generation for expecting easy, convenient and low cost services and products when they can summon a driver on their phone to take them across town for $14 avoiding the expense of actually owning, repairing and insuring (not to mention driving) a car or they can order a new iPhone battery booster based on scanning globally crowd-sourced product reviews for a price they like on Amazon and have it delivered for free later that same day or stream “Die Hard” (the best Christmas movie ever btw) on demand, on a tablet, from a beach?

These options exist and are successful because they disrupted market models that stopped innovating. So many industries have fast forwarded to these newer, Netflix, AirBnB or Uber, models. The ones that haven’t - have been left behind or are holding on through regulation, financial instruments or contracts (cable and cellular companies anyone?). Even Chevy and Ford are seeing themselves as personal transportation companies instead of car manufactures and they are using technology to differentiate themselves from one another.

Yet many industries, such as boating, remain stuck in the 70s, heck maybe the 60s. When we bought our boat I was stunned at how old-school and proprietary the entire discovery, conversion and purchase process was as a buyer. Starting with YW and some really terrible, YW powered, broker websites, to the process of setting an appointment to view a boat (catch them on the phone only because most brokers aren’t responding to email or YW forms or voicemail) to making an offer, lining up surveys, insurance and documentation every single step was multiple calls, repeating data, often with incomplete information or the need to follow up again and lot’s of paper or faxes. Seriously? Just trying to find a fax option in this day and age was super fun - hint get the phone app. In the end I felt like the only two parties actually invested in managing the process were me and the seller. I’m looking around thinking what do we need all of you clowns for and why am I filling out my address on a paper form for the umpteenth time?

Now I know there are good brokers. I know there are better experiences but putting that aside for a moment - the customer experience of purchasing a boat is just plain terrible; off-putting, slow and hard. That is not the customer’s (millennial’s) fault - it’s the industry’s fault.

Attract new customers by offering better purchasing options. Make the process easier. Remove the friction. Grow community through YCs and Mfg Clubs and onboard newer customers through low barrier educational programs. Design Mfg led charter options, bundle the purchasing processes and a million other things. In effect - do something to appeal to these new-fangled, early-stage buyers and then deliver lifelong value to move them up and keep them in boating for as long as possible.

sunchaser said:

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The reason why there’s such a pilot shortage

And, the hell of it is, there have never been more good, used, and reasonably priced, powerboats and sailboats on the market, than right now.

Trades and boats

Our now 28 yr old son (accounting degree) was part owner of a high end European auto repair shop, where he was the 'front guy'/service writer/manager. They had three techs in the air conditioned shop working on Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, VW and Audi. These three guys were all about his age or a bit older - the age we are discussing. None had college degrees, but all were well trained (Mercedes school ...). All three made over $90k, had health and 401-k benefits, and all three had boats - mostly center console types. My son sold his share and has started a new business (where he has returned after his scary atv accident on Oct 7 - thankfully !). Lets be careful with these sweeping accusations of a generation - we baby boomers had our share thrown at us by the preceding generation.

Wifey B: Like all stereotyping, only one place to look for the answer, in the mirror. The only common factor is the one doing the stereotyping.

FoxtrotCharlie said:

Lets be careful with these sweeping accusations of a generation - we baby boomers had our share thrown at us by the preceding generation.

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This. So much this. Glad your son is alright!

"None had college degrees, but all were well trained (Mercedes school ...). All three made over $90k, had health and 401-k benefits, and all three had boats"

From what I have seen neither the educrats or media actually know hands on workers.

Just as almost none know military folks , with the draft gone.

What is promoted is what is understood , they went to kollege , therefore to be a success you must too.

Starting my grandson early! He’s choosing his first boat!

FF said:

From what I have seen neither the educrats or media actually know hands on workers.

Just as almost none know military folks , with the draft gone.

What is promoted is what is understood , they went to kollege , therefore to be a success you must too.

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Once again you see the need to invent words and do name calling. If being an educrat is how you label us then fine. However, claiming we know nothing about hands on workers is total BS. I know my success has depended on them and I have always made effort to understand the challenges they face and to show them respect.

I know many who don't even finish high school beat the odds and become huge earners and very wealthy. However, let's keep it all in perspective and be honest as well. Here are the numbers as of 2017.

Median Weekly Earnings
Less than high school diploma $515
High School graduate, no college $718
Some college or associate degree $799
Bachelor's degree only $1189
Advanced degree $1451

As to military, I know we live in denial as to the young people we send to war. Denial as to it's impact on them and their families and the lifetime impact. Denial as to how little we do to really help them upon their return. Denial as to the rate of suicides. Denial as to how many need mental health treatment and how few receive quality help. Denial as to all the young people who will never be the same as they were, who will never have the lives they might have due to both physical and mental pain they live with. Denial as to even the education scams taking advantage of the returning military, collecting all the GI bill funds and not providing true job skills.

I know that we have way too many politicians who measure the economy only by the stock market and have no understanding whatsoever of the true poor people in this country and we have too many who measure patriotism by whether a football player kneels or stands or by parades and neglects taking care of the men and women who serve in our military. I also am careful to say it's not all politicians, just some.

I know there are great success stories of those without college or even without trade schools who excel but for every one who does, far more do not. I also know there are those who return from military service to live a successful, happy life, but that we do way to little for all the others.

I also know that mocking the value of education is just wrong.

Funny--- those advanced degree 2017 dollar numbers were my 'HS dropout/into the infantry background' wage numbers identical for my 1991 Salary! and yes so-called higher education is being slowly exposed for the racket it is.

Greetings,
Mr. BB. Sorry, you've reinforced Mr. FF's point AND shot yourself in the foot.
Mr. FF wrote: "From what I have seen neither the educrats or media actually know hands on workers."


YOUR response was to provide earning statistics for education levels.


"Median Weekly Earnings
Less than high school diploma $515
High School graduate, no college $718
Some college or associate degree $799
Bachelor's degree only $1189
Advanced degree $1451"


Probably exactly to the penny. VERY impressive...BUT....Where do the TRADES fit in there? No mention HUH? I guess they aren't "educated"


THAT, my friend is what Mr. FF is referring to. HANDS ON WORKERS. Until you and those that actually formulate and pass educational syllabus legislation and make allowances for those that want to and are best suited to a TRADE, the worn out mantra of "Go to college and get an education" will continue to live on.

Greetings,
Mr. BB. You seem to be fond of taking polls and there is most certainly value in poll results but your posting of salary levels as a measure of "smarts" is skewed at best.



Every poll I've ever taken which asks what level of education do you have uses the same criteria as you not in your post #106. NO allowance for ANY technical training what-so-ever. NONE. No option for High school+2/3/4 year apprenticeship. NO option for trade certification. Nothing.


That in itself is mocking the skilled tradespeople who keep the country running.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. BB. Sorry, you've reinforced Mr. FF's point AND shot yourself in the foot.
Mr. FF wrote: "From what I have seen neither the educrats or media actually know hands on workers."


YOUR response was to provide earning statistics for education levels.


"Median Weekly Earnings
Less than high school diploma $515
High School graduate, no college $718
Some college or associate degree $799
Bachelor's degree only $1189
Advanced degree $1451"


Probably exactly to the penny. VERY impressive...BUT....Where do the TRADES fit in there? No mention HUH? I guess they aren't "educated"


THAT, my friend is what Mr. FF is referring to. HANDS ON WORKERS. Until you and those that actually formulate and pass educational syllabus legislation and make allowances for those that want to and are best suited to a TRADE, the worn out mantra of "Go to college and get an education" will continue to live on.

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Actually the trade are somewhat but not completely included in "Some college or associate degree" and I respect them greatly. I don't say always go to a regular college program but I do say get an education and include learning a trade being that. However, on the whole, those who learn trades still don't earn what college graduates do. You pay your HVAC or Plumber a good bit but the employee isn't earning those amounts. The company is. Plumbers average about $50,000 a year so that would fit in at $961 per week and still be less than college graduates. The median for electricians is $53,000 a year. Now both of those do beat teachers who earn on average $46,000 a year. Patrol officers about $60,000 a year.

I don't think everyone should go to a traditional four year college. In fact, I think colleges do a poor job for some professions. I'll mention programmers and systems analysts. A Devry graduate can step in and be more productive than a college graduate. However, the college graduate with a post grad degree is far more likely to one day be in charge of IT.

I think we need better trade programs and they need to be available and affordable. We need to teach trades, but that doesn't mean the average trades person will make what the average college graduate does anymore than the average teacher will. My wife did a study of our college programs versus Europe and found one huge difference. We push a liberal arts education, first two years largely the same for all students and a broad group of subjects. Europe focuses on training for their future profession. You launch into your major area of concentration immediately.

One other area in which our training of trades people is very deficient. They're not trained in business. Not in charging appropriately for their work, in running a business if they wish, in earning what they deserve. So, the vast majority of trades people have very modest incomes while someone else is making good money as a result of their efforts. Tipping has been discussed on this site often and we're well aware that what we pay isn't what the worker is making so we do tip trades people when their employer doesn't have a strict rule prohibiting it.

I think post high school education should be tuition free for all and that should extend to colleges or trades education. I do think states and cities should offer trades educations through technical colleges and community colleges. Some do, some don't. NC community colleges do this better than most. Florida doesn't come close.

I'm for education, quality education. I don't care if it's in traditional college courses or trades or what.

Enlist in the Navy have good math skills pass a rigorous exam for nuculear power training, operate a nuck power plant, 6 years later leave the Navy for a six figure salary.
Sorry millennials age limit 25.

Without college I wouldn't know how to drink or chase women!


Those were the best 7 years of my life! (so far)

The only problem with young people foregoing college for trade school is robots. It is higher priced technical hands on labor that will be the first to be replaced by robots: that’s where the savings are. Machinists, tool and die makers, electrical assemblers, etc are among the highest paid workers in a given plant and thus where the most R&D money is being spent to replace them with tireless machines. Our corporate tax code is heavily biased in favor of capital expenditures: robots, not labor expenditures: training and wages and the recent tax cuts filled corporate pockets to overflowing. Corporate R&D spending is up over 35% since the tax cut and what do you think they are spending it on? Not worker enhancement, that’s for sure.

Greetings,
Mr. WH. Valid statement for those skilled trades that do work in plants but I think there will still be work for hands on field workers servicing everything from HVAC to cars for quite a while yet. Yet, with the rapid advancements of AI, who knows...


The same case for robotic replacement can be made for a LOT of disciplines from file clerks to lawyers to medical practitioners.



All of this is quite possible for first world countries. Third world countries, not so much.

I have a feeling that many people in this discussion don't even really know what trades are, since they keep using automotive technicians and plumbers as their examples.

I'm in a building full of people that includes trades (actually called crafts now), professionals and operators (steam-ticketed engineers, in the US they are called stationary engineers). Crafts here are mainly pipefitters, millwrights, welders, industrial electricians, and instrument mechanics. Professionals are mainly chemical, electrical and mechanical engineers. Funny thing is, we all make about the same. All six figures. Actually, I would say the operators probably come out on top.

My guidance counselors or teachers had no idea... Sad part, is neither did my kids teachers or guidance counselors.

My son is on his 2nd and 3rd apprenticeship now as a Millwright-Machinist. My daughter will have to get her master's degree (currently undergrad in biology at a "state school") and work quite a few years to match his potential earnings. If he pulls a union job, she'll likely never touch his pension or vacation benefits, unless she herself gets a government job.

I'm on my fourth career currently. I say this because it appears to me that one's sense of objectivity is often overpowered by our preconceptions, including biases from prior experience and external cues.

As far as my kids boating goes...

I told them that they were cursed because their parents own a boat, therefore they will too.

Greetings,
Mr. NS. "...many people... don't even really know what trades are..." You may be right. I use the examples of mechanics and plumbers because everybody knows what they are. My former career (classed as a trade)...generates blank stares and questions of "what is that?". On occasion when I explain what I did, the light goes on, Mostly not.


Edit: An observation from my 35 years on the "job". When I started my apprenticeship (8000 hrs.) most, if not all, of the client base knew pretty well what they wanted me to build. They knew the limitations of the materials I would be using to construct their "instruments" and would usually provide good drawings/instructions/blueprints. Towards the end of my career, those original clients had mostly been replaced by a new "crop" due to retirements. The newbies, in a lot of cases, knew what they wanted the equipment to accomplish but didn't have a clue about design or operation of same. So I basically had to design, manufacture and instruct the client in it's use. Still got the job done and still a trade when I retired...

Mr NS you are correct - but I am familiar with the Trades you mentioned - I have friends in mgt at Ingalls Shipyard in Pascagoula, MS - 2nd largest ship building yard in US - builds Military ships and has done so for many decades. They are constantly advertising for pipe-fitters, welders, machinists .... and they have many high tech robotic welders, but still need humans for all of the detail welding- and there is a bit of that on military ships

Northern Spy said:

I'm in a building full of people that includes trades (actually called crafts now), professionals and operators (steam-ticketed engineers, in the US they are called stationary engineers). Crafts here are mainly pipefitters, millwrights, welders, industrial electricians, and instrument mechanics. Professionals are mainly chemical, electrical and mechanical engineers. Funny thing is, we all make about the same. All six figures. Actually, I would say the operators probably come out on top.

.

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I'm afraid that on average the crafts you mention don't approach six figures. Perhaps the top 10% might. The professionals you mention do. There is a definite delineation in most companies between degreed professionals and non-degreed craftspeople. I could make arguments there shouldn't be or even arguments the craftspeople should be paid more than the engineers based on the work performed and conditions.

Greetings,
Mr. BB. "...definite delineation in most companies between degreed professionals and non-degreed craftspeople." Not only in most companies but in society as a whole and THAT'S part or the problem. NOT suggesting the jobs should in any way be equal but the mindset of society is that someone in the trades is judged to be less noteworthy simply because they lack a degree.



Every parent would like to see their children be successful so "Go to college/university and get a good job" is drummed into the younger folks. Schools are in the business of preparing kids for college. I can't see many parents or schools telling little Johnny "You should become a stonemason".


Little Johnny might be very poor academically, not for lack of intelligence but simply lack of interest. HIS strength may very well be auto mechanics or woodworking but IF that particular skill is not recognized and nurtured he may easily become a drop out and thus a failure in the eyes of society simply because he didn't go to college.

When I was stationed in Germany, (1958-1960) I discovered that the Germans looked at skilled craftsmen as "professionals." There was none of the disdain that Americans have toward blue collar workers.