Now, BandB, you have some interesting posts about quality, would be nice to know what boats are quality, in your mind. And most of the boats you mention in the 5 million and up are not boats this group will typically buy, especially me. Just getting too big to fit behind my home and I don't want a boat that I can't see every day.
Speaking of quality, the only boat I've owned that had outstanding quality was a Formula. However, the Volvo engines were a disaster and the reason i got rid of it.
Re: Your Formula. Owned two Cobalt's and their quality was very good. But then I owned several small Sea Rays (Sea Ray's L Series was a nightmare but they couldn't build it in their quality facility in Venore, TN) and excellent quality just their quality assurance wasn't equal to Cobalt's. More minor things having nothing to do with the ride or safety.
The boats I'm most familiar with are not the type most here choose. Smaller Riva's aren't in the 5 million range nor are CC's. There are some excellent builders of CC's and SF's. Seavees are build in a warehouse in Opalocka, FL and their quality is very good.
I don't profess to be an expert on Trawlers but a couple of comments on quality. I'd argue the Bayliner cruisers were excellent quality of construction. Orin Edson was ahead of others in automation and modernizing a plant. They didn't profess to be high end but they did what they were designed for extremely well. Just look at their longevity and the happy owners. Grand Banks has always been a quality builder. Look at the Helmsman buyers here pleased with quality and I consider N4061 a good judge and in some ways a difficult customer with his changes but he praises working with them. I hate the Nordhavn commissioning process but their build quality is solid. Look at their repeat buyers. I see so many positive comments from American Tug buyers and owners.
I think also some brands that don't get mentioned a lot because mostly larger, but Outer Reef and Cheoy Lee both build solid boats. Elements of Quality must be differentiated too as Italian boats would have quality if one is looking at performance but some don't match the build quality or quality assurance of others. Some builders design quality boats but are incapable of getting them out the door and delivered with quality.
The majority of builders are able to build a good boat. Only a small number really build lousy boats and only a small number are consistently excellent. Now, with a manufacturing background, I offer an opinion why so few can hit the excellence level. If any of you have ever heard Marcus Lemonis he talks constantly about "People, Product, and Process." Most of his turnarounds are done by improving the Process. I've been involved with turnarounds and it's seldom been the People. Perhaps a few at the top but the manufacturing employees weren't the problem. If they didn't have a product we typically weren't going to get involved. However, Process is the key to quality out the door, to consistency, to on time delivery and to cost.
How many of you have seen home builders who take twice as long as others and charge outrageous prices. Well, if you look closely you'll typically find they use quality materials but their workmanship falters too as timing was off and things sat. If it takes someone an outrageous amount of time to build a boat, they have problems.
A very small boat builder can achieve quality without systems. The owner or manager can keep up with everything that goes on every day. He knows everything on order. He knows what is where. He knows what is next. He can personally instruct every worker. However, he's often lost when things expand beyond what he can manage in that way. He doesn't have the systems to insure everything is controlled. Most midsized builders don't as they feel they can't afford them. They are expensive to acquire and implement.
The ideal builder though has complete documentation and bills of material, has a detailed production schedule, orders everything according to it so never waiting for materials or having to substitute, has documents so every worker knows exactly what they're supposed to do today on each boat. They know all the key measurements and quality checks. Then there are quality control people checking at various stages. Even surveyors can't find it all. You can't defer quality until you have a finished product.
But see, quality control people don't produce anything and many manufacturers just see the added costs. This brings us to industrial engineers. I've never been responsible for manufacturing where industrial engineering wasn't in every factory and wasn't considered essential. It's essential to doing things right and doing them the same way every time. The large Chinese factories are well engineered. Even when using cheap labor you want to maximize effectiveness. Ship manufacturers have industrial engineering.
I recall walking into a high quality boat builder that was actually for sale but that wasn't my purpose of being there. I knew in 1 hour there that I could reduce their labor costs at least 15% and 25% and reduce their build times that much or more, plus eliminate their trash pile of unused materials from ordering mistakes. Now their overall quality was good as they had many people checking. However, it could have been much better as minor things often slipped through from lacking a consistent way of doing things.
Mark Richards isn't a manufacturing person by training. He's a sailor. But he got into manufacturing with Palm Beach in Australia. Then he became President of Grand Banks as they acquired Palm Beach. He has turned Grand Banks manufacturing facility in Malaysia around through the introduction of robotics and the use of technology. The robotics can take the information from CAD and follow a pattern and not just produce a piece with less human labor but produce it exactly the same every time. In Apparel and Soft Goods manufacturing automated cutting of parts has been in use for decades. Even the best human cutters can't achieve the consistency a machine can. Gerber Cutters have been around nearly 50 years and are in use in Aerospace, Construction, furniture, apparel, soft goods, packaging, sign manufacturing and more.
The most sophisticated and best run boat shop floor I've ever seen copied Aerospace. Boeing couldn't operate as so many boat builders do. Find someone who does it better and copy them.
You can build one incredible boat by hand. However, you tell ten people to build ten and they'll all end up different. Systems are needed. The "backyard" builder may do an excellent job. However, if you go to a larger builder, ask them about their systems. They'll show you how they manage things and love showing it off. Or you'll find they don't have much and then don't expect your boat to be like the last one off or the next one.
There is one medium sized builder (well smaller now) in which the owner is perhaps a design genius, either that or mad scientist. He'd driven to improve every boat he builds. He has a nice riding boat that runs 30 knots but decides if he changes the hull slightly, tweaks this or that, maybe he can get 32 knots. He does but whereas before he had an excellent ride, now it rides horribly. It's one thing to make changes and improvements inside the boat or above the deck. He loves messing with keels to reduce the drag. If he'd stay out of the way and just let the yard do the job they're probably solve 90% of their quality issues.
In this thread we've spoken of autos and planes. I laugh when I hear "well boats are nothing like cars". Actually, the process of building is the same regardless of the end product. Now, most boat builders don't do the volume so can't set up like a car factory. But they could sure study car factories and learn some things from them. They're not having to change the order in which they do things because they're waiting for the engine which was supposed to go in today. They're using engineering to achieve consistency.
