Water Makers - Which to install?

Gordon J said:

But you can get 14 - 16 gallons per hour from a 12 volt spectra unit.

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Which model? I have a 150 (not installed) and specs say 6 GPH. 14-16 would be awesome of course.

Wxx3 said:

I agree with Larry and Retriever.
I too have the Kataydn 160 and love its simplicity.

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The 3 of you have me motivated to uninstall my 80e tomorrow from my smaller boat. I pickled it about 2 months ago and I'd rather not have the lines freeze with that boat hauled out. With you 3 loving your units I will without doubt install my 80e on my second boat. I agree the simplicity is fantastic. I may install the Spectra 150 too as I have room. Twin engines, twin water makers. What could possibly go wrong?

mixman said:

the 235-watt solar panel with about a 300ah battery bank ran the 80e unit for hours per day

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Exactly why I don't want a low-power unit.

My goal is to only run it an hour or two at a time, and ideally less than a few times a week.

> I don't think one can get anywhere near 30gph from a 12v water maker.

Maybe looking at OTS packaged units.

Rich @ CruiseRO reckons he's set up a few customers this way, e.g his SM30 powered by a 1HP 12v motor probably uses about 80A.

Since I'm not drawing from the bank, nor using solar, I'm not interested in AH/gal efficiency, just gph efficiency.

john61ct said:

Exactly why I don't want a low-power unit.

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Point noted. But if you were in my situation what would you do?

I have a 12v Katadyn 80e.
I have a 12v Spectra 150 MPC.
650 watts of solar.
Wind turbine (in garage, came with boat, not yet installed).
6kW generator.

Such problems to have?

Lose the wind.

Install the Spectra.

Plan to keep the Katadyn on standby,

unless you want to post it at a crazy high price and get an offer you can't refuse.

john61ct said:

Lose the wind.

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Why? Free power is free power (and selling used stuff isn't easy). I'm planning to upgrade to the quiet blades for it.

Install the Spectra.

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Why not both? Either in storage is a pain as it isn't easy to maintain a membrane that isn't hooked up.

mixman said:

I'm not anti-generator (both boats I own have them) nor am I on some sort of low budget. I've used the smaller water maker I have for years now and run it off solar most of the time. Parts for generators (and other mechanical items) aren't always that easy to come by, especially in the Bahamas. The sun there is strong enough that decent solar will easily make plenty of water per day with a 12v system. This may be more of a regional preference. It seems the 110v comments may be coming from people further north than I am. That would certainly make sense with the lower sun angle. For me, MD and south it just doesn't make sense to rack up hours on a generator for only making water when alternatives are available.

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I don't see how you do it. We're a lot farther south and there's no way we can get by on solar and wind alone. We make a good solid 20 amps of 12 volt DC when the sun is strong and more or less overhead, but that isn't all the time nor consistent for days at a time. Quite honestly, without a genset, we would be in serious trouble, power wise and we don't even have 12 VDC refrigeration.

For us, much of our power consumption is after dark and until we can get LI batteries, I don't see any way most of us can survive w/o auxiliary power from a genset, as full time (rarely or never in marinas) anchored out liveaboards.
Never mind that we like our air conditioning when it's really hot and sticky.

If it is hot and sticky I'm likely to be at a marina with a pool! My genset has no problems running AC, and I like comfort too (how do you live without refrigeration or do you have 110v refrigeration? ). I like ice too and make plenty of it. I have a friend who's solar wasn't keeping up to his liking so he (being a retired engineer) investigated where all the power was going. I forget what he found specifically but he was able to improve and greatly reduce generator usage.

My genset will run at times for sure. I like hot water for showers, satellite TV and music. I just don't want to run it more than necessary. I also like the redundancy of not being totally reliant on only a generator for everything.

The replies are typical. Those with "X" recommend "X". Those with "Y" recommend "Y".

We had a 24 volt unit already on the boat which I scrapped and replaced with a 120v unit that can run off of our inverter. With our 6kw genset we are able to sleep in an air conditioned cabin fully charge our batteries and make 9 hours worth of water on less than 3 gallons of diesel. In addition we have 240v unit we can turn on but for that we need to turn off the air conditioner. On the plus side we can cut the genny run time in half if we really need to make up a bunch of water.

mixman said:

Why? Free power is free power (and selling used stuff isn't easy). I'm planning to upgrade to the quiet blades for it.

Why not both? Either in storage is a pain as it isn't easy to maintain a membrane that isn't hooked up.

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I personally am very irritated by noise like that.

Sure redundant wm is great if you have space, then why ask?

john61ct said:

I personally am very irritated by noise like that.

Sure redundant wm is great if you have space, then why ask?

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To be fair, some people are very annoyed by marine diesel generators running 24/7. My goal is to not be one of those boats. I realize that is how some boats are set up, I'm hoping to go in a different direction (key word: "hoping").

Point noted on wind turbine. The stock blades are VERY annoying (I once had the "privilege" of being anchored near a boat that two of them - my generator ran quite a bit that night!). My intent is to replace the stock blades with ones that claim to be nearly silent. That is if I can figure out where to mount it that doesn't cost me bridge clearance too much while being high enough not to cause physical harm to crew/guests (which, may not be possible).

mixman said:

(how do you live without refrigeration or do you have 110v refrigeration? )..

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We have electric cooking and we are a charter boat, so our genset runs 2 to 4 hours a day anyway. Therefore, we have 110 vAC fridge, etc. I have lived aboard since 1969, so a watermaker is a huge difference for me. I had to ration water for 40 odd years! Showering in public or marina showers is just not something I've ever liked. They are mostly grungy and no matter how clean they appear, they are just breeding grounds for tons of evil microbes.
As far as other folks being bothered by my genset in an anchorage, that's not something I even care about. We can't hear our genset from anywhere except the back deck, so if someone anchored a couple of dozen meters away does, then the only thing they are hearing is the exhaust water spitting out and I don't see how that should bother anyone enough to cause a problem.
I will rarely, if ever, anchor directly upwind of another vessel, knowing that my genset does smell a tiny bit when being used. But if someone chooses to ignore the second, smaller exhaust (very visible as we have no swim platform) on my transom, and they anchor close astern, then that is a problem of their own making, not mine.
However, those noisy cheap a$$ windgens are about the most unpleasant thing in an anchorage for me and before I bought one, I asked all the boats with quiet ones which they used. Then I chose one that would be nearly silent, and it is. But generally speaking, other than the fact that when it does produce some usable power at night, it is barely worth the money. I estimate my average output at less than .3 of an amp. Today is the exception, as we've made 29 amps in about 9 hours, but it's been blowing a steady 15 with gusts to 32. Of course, our solar can do that in just 1.3 hours, as a comparison.

foreverunderway said:

We have electric cooking and we are a charter boat, so our genset runs 2 to 4 hours a day anyway. Therefore, we have 110 vAC fridge, etc.

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A good point. Our oven and range are also electric as is the refrigerator. The refrigerator is on its own inverter as an experiment. We’re just getting the “refit” finished up so I want to see how it does before i go 12v. As for range/oven, I usually cook on a gas grill but obviously would need genset if I find I’m cooking in the galley more.

I have lived aboard since 1969, so a watermaker is a huge difference for me. I had to ration water for 40 odd years! Showering in public or marina showers is just not something I've ever liked. They are mostly grungy and no matter how clean they appear, they are just breeding grounds for tons of evil microbes.

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I could not agree with you more. Hence why I also went with a Type I MSD.

As far as other folks being bothered by my genset in an anchorage, that's not something I even care about. We can't hear our genset from anywhere except the back deck, so if someone anchored a couple of dozen meters away does, then the only thing they are hearing is the exhaust water spitting out and I don't see how that should bother anyone enough to cause a problem.

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I didn’t say I had a problem with it. I expect gensets to start up in mornings and run in evenings. I do try to avoid those that run 24/7. That is my personal preference.

However, those noisy cheap a$$ windgens are about the most unpleasant thing in an anchorage for me and before I bought one, I asked all the boats with quiet ones which they used. Then I chose one that would be nearly silent, and it is. But generally speaking, other than the fact that when it does produce some usable power at night, it is barely worth the money. I estimate my average output at less than .3 of an amp. Today is the exception, as we've made 29 amps in about 9 hours, but it's been blowing a steady 15 with gusts to 32. Of course, our solar can do that in just 1.3 hours, as a comparison.

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I do not want a noise maker for my own sanity as well as the sanity of those around me. The point, though, is that I have 2 12v water makers and also already have the wind turbine (I already owned one water maker, the other came with this current boat/trawler along with the wind turbine). I figured I’d install it since it will only cost me a few hundred for the quieter blades (it same with all mounting hardware/poles). But if they’re that lame at producing power I may use the place I was thinking of mounting it and mount the larger satellite TV dome that also came with the boat.

I think the only generators that are too loud are the open frame cheap Home Depot style generators. The Hondas are fairly quiet and the building diesel generators cannot even be heard

mixman said:

To be fair, some people are very annoyed by marine diesel generators running 24/7

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Absolutely.

My design goal living off-grid is a few ICE sessions per week of a few hours, for all electricity, refrigeration and fresh-water needs.

That's why my choice is a high-gph unit.

mixman said:

To be fair, some people are very annoyed by marine diesel generators running 24/7. My goal is to not be one of those boats. I realize that is how some boats are set up, .

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Well as stated some of us are set up as an electric boat. I have no issues with firing up my genny in a cove/bay to start my "Mr. Coffee" in the morning

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

.... I have no issues with firing up my genny in a cove/bay to start my "Mr. Coffee" in the morning

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Me neither. I`m not sure all who complain they are "irritated" by a genset ever go boating, but for those who do, it`s not a huge imposition and it`s usually relatively brief.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Well as stated some of us are set up as an electric boat. I have no issues with firing up my genny in a cove/bay to start my "Mr. Coffee" in the morning

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Our generator pretty much runs anytime we're on the boat. We like refrigeration, showers, air conditioning, hot water and all the other luxuries of electricity.

Back to discussing water makers; my question was if I should install the Katadyn 80e I have or the Spectra 150 that came along with my "new boat". It turned to how 110v units are better than 12v units. Now we're on to how generators should be run 24/7. Sheesh.

I've got a nice generator but I agree with this article:

https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/maintenance/do-you-need-a-watermaker-on-your-boat

From experience, I am leaning towards 12v water. I'll save the generator use for battery top off, hot water, and some cooking.

john61ct said:

Absolutely.

My design goal living off-grid is a few ICE sessions per week of a few hours, for all electricity, refrigeration and fresh-water needs.

That's why my choice is a high-gph unit.

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I am similar. But with the solar I have 12v water can run for hours per day without generator running.

Please allow me to clear the air on my generator comments: my personal preference is generator a bit in the morning to charge house bank, make some hot water, etc. Then, generator for a few hours in evening (unless air conditioning or heat needed)to again heat water and charge batteries. I've got a 700ah house bank that will easily run one of the 12v water makers I already own during daylight. I'm after water maker opinions between the two 12v units I own, not 110v units or if I need to run my generator more.

Spectra

mixman said:

Which model? I have a 150 (not installed) and specs say 6 GPH. 14-16 would be awesome of course.

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Sells a Newport which makes 14 - 16 gallons en hour

I'd go for max possible water production. Once you have a watermaker, you will only want more. So things I would consider would be:


1) Install both water makers


2) Sell both and get a higher capacity unit. That may have a ripple effect into 12V vs AC power. If you go with AC, I think the "as big as possible" is even more important since you will be running a generator to make water.


I've had a couple of Spectra units and they are quite good, however I would not go any larger than the Newport 700 with Clark pump. My last Spectra was the Newport 1000 and it cranked out the water, but ran at higher pressures and seemed to stress the whole design to it's limits. I had a variety of leaks, and two cracked cylinders along the way. Spectra supplied replacement parts even out of warranty, but my conclusion was that they had pushed the Clark pump design just a bit too far. This next time around I've moved to a more traditional high pressure pump, AC powered.


I don't think anyone has ever said "wow, I have too much fresh water. I wish my watermaker was smaller"

Others' opinions expressed will of course be based on their use case and preferences not yours.

The "conflict" between units that are very high GPH, vs

those can be run off a battery bank, where AH per gallon is critical,

is inherent to the technology.

I think you have all the information you need to make a decision for your use case and preferences.