Vesper AIS or VHF radio with AIS?

Looking for some opinions.
Background:
I have older Raymarine GPS. Chartplotter/Fishfinder, Radar, and Standard Horizon VHF (with DSC). Up to now, we have also been using an older laptop with an older version of Nobeltec. The laptop runs Windows XP.
I recently purchased a new laptop to operate Rosepoint Coastal Explorer software. I am also considering trying to connect the laptop to the existing GPS and plotter, as well as another GPS source (either a puck, or to an AIS source that has a built in GPS).
Now my question. Should I buy an AIS only unit such as a Vesper, or should I buy a second VHF with DSC and AIS built in? What features would I not receive with the VHF option? The VHF with AIS is less expensive than the Vesper unit.
Any other ideas of how or what to add to allow AIS to be displayed on the new Coastal Explorer laptop?
Thanks in advance for the opinions and suggestions,
Tom

Tom, since you already have a vhf w/ DSC, look at adding an AIS to your navigation suite. For recreation AIS, there is Class B with receive and transmit or Class C, which is receive only. By the way, the VHF with AIS is Class C AIS.

The big question is connecting to your equipment. The Vesper AIS’s can communicate over NMEA 1083 or NMEA 2000 (N2k). We have the Vesper WatchMate with its own screen and it has several advantages: 1) it can be used stand alone without networking. 2) it can network over both types of NMEA, and 3) it has a very useful anchor watch system.

Your biggest problem will be connecting to the Raymarine chartplotter. If it is an older unit, then it communicates over its proprietary Seatalk network and will require a Seatalk to NMEA converter. Because you have used this system with your computer running Nobeltec (I did this for 11 years on our last boat) you already have the converter. Then you can hook it up vis a USB/NMEA converter for your new laptop.
I have probably rambled too much with this response. I would go for the Vesper AIS Class B (transmit/receive) or C (receive only). There are other threads discussing the pros and cons of either system, but when cruise, we like to follow the adage of “see and be seen”.
Gary

"What features would I not receive with the vhf option?"

The vhf option is receive-only, meaning you see ais targets around you but they don't see you. The Vesper is a class b AIS devise that transmits your position as well as receives and displays ais targets around you.

Can I please tack on a question I have without needing to start a new thread.

I have a StandHorizon with AIS receive and target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG.

Can I feed the AIS RX record to a Garmin GPS with AIS capability?

(I also have a class B AIS but am fighting an RX issue right now, TX is fine).

Ken E. said:

"What features would I not receive with the vhf option?"

The vhf option is receive-only, meaning you see ais targets around you but they don't see you. The Vesper is a class b AIS devise that transmits your position as well as receives and displays ais targets around you.

Click to expand...

Hi Ken,

I have a Vesper 6000, connected to laptop w Coastal Explorer by USB. Very nice setup. I see other AIS vessels, their speed, heading, and name, graphically on the CE chart. They see me too.

Richard, I've heard good things about the Vesper. I also have Coastal Explorer running on a laptop but my primary setup is Furuno vx2 with a Comnav ais integrated. Looking forward to seeing you again next summer in SE AK.

It depends a lot on which Vesper.

Some Vespers will act as an NMEA gateway. That means you can connect your existing electronics to the Vesper, connect your Laptop to Vesper via Wifi, and you will have the data from all your instruments on your laptop.

This assume you existing electronics are new enough to output NMEA.

Rain Dog said:

This assume you existing electronics are new enough to output NMEA.

Click to expand...

183 or 2000, or does it matter?

menzies said:

183 or 2000, or does it matter?

Click to expand...

Except for the 850, all the Vespers I am aware of support both 183 and 2000.

Hi Tom
I had the same thoughts/choice to make this past spring. I went with the vesper Xp8000 unit. ($700.00 after discounts and rebates). And an icon VHS with an internal gps $320). I too have an older raymarine chart plotter. I am able to connect the chartploter to the 0183 network and get Gps from the Vesper. I am able to connect my iPads up wirelessly to the Vesper unit as well and display WatchMate aid information. I can also get iNavX to work With the Vesper unit, displaying both ais info and chartplotting. The computer is able to connect either wirelessly or via USP cable. I am going to remove the raymarine unit and install a couple of windows tablets instead

Very happy with the Vesper unit. Get the external antenna!
Paul

I have a Vesper 6000 feeding a Windows 10 laptop with Coastal Explorer on a big external display. Over 5-months underway in all conditions this summer, I was never disappointed. I keep my Raytheon C-80 clutter-free for primary radar only.

Milltech Marine, the guy in Port Orchard who is the regional retailer is very good at install support and gives a Seattle boat show discount

I have two Vesper 8000 units, one on each boat. It is a very nice piece of equipment, 0183 in and out, NMEA2000, and a WiFi server. Very easily configurable though a web server interface. Your laptop or iPad can connect to GPS, AIS, and instrument data wirelessly. Using your phone or pad, with only the Vesper powered, you have an AIS plotter, and an anchor alarm. They support the product with periodic firmware and software updates.

My transponder is a now-discontinued AMEC 101 Camino. Purchased from Milltech, highly recommend them. Works perfectly. NMEA 0183 output into a multiplexer with its own dedicated GPS as well as the VHF antenna which is purpose made for AIS. My experience with different AIS's is that the VHF antenna has a significant impact on range, I am not a big fan of splitters, just seems like adding a point of failure for 2 devices. Mount the antenna high and alone if possible. The dedicated GPS also allows for a redundant GPS, which was helpful when one went TU.



Regarding your older Raymarine, it may not use AIS, you'll have to read the manual. It also will need a dedicated NMEA connection to the AIS- to the point that it will have to be 38,400 baud. You can have multiple devices listening to the AIS output, but they must be configured to the proper baud rate. Rosepoint's NEMO gateway would be a big help, although as others have mentioned, certain Vesper models can act as a gateway. The guys at Milltech can guide you, it will pay you to gain some familiarity with the technical aspects of connecting all the devices unless you plan to have outside help. NMEA connection can be very frustrating with each manufacturer having slightly different schemes, color codes, etc.



One thing with NMEA to watch is configuring the sentences each device is transmitting. NMEA0183 is relatively slow with narrow bandwidth. You'll be tempted to just turn on ALL the sentences to make sure you have everything you need, but it can overload the network and cause it to lock up. Same with data loops with say GPS information being generated by multiple sources. So turn on ONLY those sentences you need, and avoid duplication between devices. A multiplexer or gateway will address that problem. It will be a big help to diagram out the connections and the sentences on the connections before stringing any cable. NMEA 0183 isn't plug and play, N2K is (well, it's supposed to be). Attached is a pdf that deals with NMEA sentences, very helpful.



I use an Actisense NDC-4; my system is all NMEA as yours is, and, although it's old technology by today's standards, once configured, it's pretty bulletproof. It's worked great for me in 8 yrs of full time cruising and some 30,0000 miles.

menzies said:

Can I please tack on a question I have without needing to start a new thread.

I have a StandHorizon with AIS receive and target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG.

Can I feed the AIS RX record to a Garmin GPS with AIS capability?

(I also have a class B AIS but am fighting an RX issue right now, TX is fine).

Click to expand...

Yes, that should work. Just disconnect the other one first so it's not getting two RX feeds that might confuse it.

Have you considered "Keeping it in the Family?" A Raymarine AIS and connect into your Seatalk backbone.

Wow, Great responses, and thanks alot! This forum is a great place for sharing.
First, I did not know (but probably should have figured it out by pricing alone) that VHF radios with built in AIS only received. So that is out (for me).
I am just starting this "adventure" with the new laptop. I had it down at the boat yesterday to "play with it" a bit. I didn't have a lot of time, as I was doing some engine maintenance and spent most of my time there. I could not get the Rosepoint to "find" my existing GPS signal (using the same USB that the old laptop used for this). I am heading back today to try some more ideas.
I definitely want a redundant GPS as my existing unit (both antenna and device) are 2002 models. The GPS is a Raymarine RN300, there is a wind instrument, autopilot, and 2 "7 inch plotters" (one used for charts and fishfinder, the other for radar) and all operate on Seatalk as well as NMEA 0183. The laptop I am replacing, used the RN300 for GPS signal, hence my desire for redundancy. I could just use a GPS puck, but I think AIS would be very useful.
I will look at the Raymarine suite of AIS, but I think I am leaning toward a Vesper unit. Besides the WiFi ability, are there any other "major" differences between the 6000 and 8000 Vesper units?
I am far from a computer expert, so I am hoping that my new software (Rosepoint) will just "find" my existing GPS signal. I will investigate if I need all of my equipment turned on, try different USB ports, etc. to see if I can get it to work. In a perfect implementation, I would like the Rosepoint software to be able to use all the info (don't really care about the radar, but maybe as a backup) from the system, but the minimum would be the GPS info (which is basically all I used for the last 2 years).

Thanks again,
Tom

Tom, give Rose Point a call they can help you integrate your system to work with CE. I have found them to be very helpful.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Tom, give Rose Point a call they can help you integrate your system to work with CE. I have found them to be very helpful.

Click to expand...

Hi Tom,

If you install a Vesper AIS, it will provide a gps signal. I connect it to CE via USB, and so CE has both gps and ais to work with. My old Ray stuff has its own gps signal, so provides redundance.

I second the above re: Rosepoint support; your problem is most likely one of port allocation and they can sort that out in a few minutes. I also endorse the Vesper transceiver.

RCook said:

Hi Ken,

I have a Vesper 6000, connected to laptop w Coastal Explorer by USB. Very nice setup. I see other AIS vessels, their speed, heading, and name, graphically on the CE chart. They see me too.

Click to expand...

I also integrated my vesper with CE but went with the 8000 and pull the data off wifi. Really easy to connect the vesper to the boat wifi then just configure CE to "listen" on a specific IP address and port.

I have the Vesper XB8000. It transmits and receives AIS, but more importantly it also puts all the NMEA0183 and NMEA2000 data on the boat's WiFi network. That way Coastal Explorer (and in my case iOS devices running iNavX) has GPS/heading/AIS/depth/etc. information from various NMEA sensors. I connected the XB8000 to my old Comnav autopilot and so I can plot on CE and have the autopilot follow the route.

If nav data over WiFi scares you, you can also connect the PC running CE to a Vesper Marine product via USB.

If the goal is a good bridge between NMEA and computers/tablets, Rose Point's own NEMO gateway is better. It's easier to set up, well supported, and has more flexibility. But you'd still need an AIS transponder.

When I initially set up the NMEA network, it had two GPS sensors and two heading sensors. This caused conflicts and I eventually disconnected the combo GPS/heading sensor and all is well again. The other sensor remains installed and can quickly be plugged in if necessary.

Good info Retiever.

I run my CE on a laptop with Windows 7. I have a puck antenna connected to the laptop via USB. My Raymaine MFD handle the rest.

No joy. But I did contact Rosepoint. They told me that my connection problem was most likely to do with a driver for a serial to USB adapter used in my system. My Nobletec (older laptop with Windows XP) used this connection for the GPS. However, Windows 10 does not recognize the device. I forgot how much fun this can be (new computers and programs Anyway, I have 7 days left on my trial evaluation to get this figured out. I am sure it will work, and that I will probably go with a Vesper AIS as the primary GPS input.

Thanks for the info on the potential conflicts with multiple GPS sources. If that shows up, I now know to disconnect the "backup" item.
Thanks again,
Tom

firehoser75 said:

No joy. But I did contact Rosepoint. They told me that my connection problem was most likely to do with a driver for a serial to USB adapter used in my system. My Nobletec (older laptop with Windows XP) used this connection for the GPS. However, Windows 10 does not recognize the device. I forgot how much fun this can be (new computers and programs Anyway, I have 7 days left on my trial evaluation to get this figured out. I am sure it will work, and that I will probably go with a Vesper AIS as the primary GPS input.

Thanks for the info on the potential conflicts with multiple GPS sources. If that shows up, I now know to disconnect the "backup" item.
Thanks again,
Tom

Click to expand...

Search for an updated driver for your GPS puck- try to find the make & model to do the search. If it's dated, you may have difficulty finding a win10 driver. You may need to install the driver before win10 recognizes the device. A word of advice when searching for drivers, avoid the driver sites that ask you to install a "downloader", it's usually malware and you'll live to regret ever visiting those sites. Focus on manufacturers' support sites. FWIW...



If your USB-serial adapter uses a Prolific chip, you should anticipate some notorious flakiness. The FTDI chip is far more stable and if you have a choice, it's the best option.



If CE is seeing multiple GPS sources, the program can prioritize them so it uses them in order of priority, thus avoiding conflicts or loops. A multiplexer or gateway like the Nemo will also have the capability to manage multiple inputs. If you plan to make use of the PC with any regularity, the Nemo would be a worthwhile investment. It enables you to connect everything to the gateway and have only to connect the USB cable from that to the laptop when you want to use it. A downside of using the Vesper as a gateway is that it must be turned on for the PC to see any of the other devices. A dedicated gateway would offer better redundancy. Keep in mind that a plain old wireless router can also make whatever data is used by CE available via wifi or ethernet. CE has a data server function that accomplishes that task.

There are myriad ways of accomplishing what you want, you'll have to weigh all the options. Feedback from the forum is really helpful for the expanse of experience here. You can draw from that collective to avoid pitfalls you might never anticipate if not for others sharing that experience.





I'm a CE user for over 12 yrs, great support, great product.

Steve,
Thanks for all the info. I may just end up buying a new USB-serial adapter with the better chip. I am very glad to hear the long term good report on CE. It gives a new user like myself confidence that I am making a good decision. I like the idea of using a plain router, I have one I am no longer using that is not that old.
Thanks again,
Tom

menzies said:

Can I please tack on a question I have without needing to start a new thread.

I have a StandHorizon with AIS receive and target display: MMSI, Call Sign, Ship Name, BRG, DST, SOG and COG.

Can I feed the AIS RX record to a Garmin GPS with AIS capability?

(I also have a class B AIS but am fighting an RX issue right now, TX is fine).

Click to expand...

Yes. I have the S/H GX2200 VHF/AIS interfaced to a Garmin 5212 plotter. Takes a little bit of research in the manuals to come up with the correct wire connections and port assignment. It works ok.

This is redundant but I also have a Vesper Watchmate connected to two Raymarine E series MFD's. First of all having a transponder ensures not only you see others but they see you! A VHF with AIS only receives.
I connected the Vesper to the Raymarime Seatalk network using an interface cable bought at Defenders. They were very helpful. So now I have AIS info on:
The Vesper Watchmate screen,
The Raymarine MFD's, and
On the Vesper app via Vesper wireless.
Very happy with the setup!

This is a very timely thread for me, as I have a nearly identical situation. New boat, and in need of AIS, as well as a cell booster. I spoke with the Vesper rep at Pacific Marine Expo last week, and he says I can connect the XB6000 to my tablet (Windows 10) running CE, via usb. So maybe I can eliminate my Garmin puck antenna if it will be made redundant by the Vesper???

Salish Nomad said:

...and he says I can connect the XB6000 to my tablet (Windows 10) running CE, via usb. So maybe I can eliminate my Garmin puck antenna if it will be made redundant by the Vesper???

Click to expand...

True. The Vesper becomes your GPS source for the tablet/ CE combo. The Vesper has an internal GPS antenna, which works quite well for me, but they include an external one if you wish to install in an obscured location.

"....also in need of a cell booster..."

Nomad, Many brands of cell boosters to choose from and my Wilson booster being 6 years old is probably obsolete, but it consistently gets me a couple of bars above a normal connection.