Ding Engine

firstbase said:

Yep! My motto is when I feel bad about myself then I try to push others down to raise myself up. This could explain my lack of friends but...that's another thread.

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Dang, my shot was at the OP, and I missed!

Fletcher500 said:

Our last Dinghy was a Caribe 12 with a 40 Yamaha, and it hauled a$#. Definitely stern heavy. Sold it awhile back.

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My Caribe 12 has a Honda 40. It definitely goes when I want it to. I don't consider it to be stern heavy though. I doubt the Yammy weighs more than the Honda. I don't have smart tabs, as I needed on a smaller Caribe, but I do have the planing attachment on the outboard, so mine gets up and goes without any fuss. Maybe the planing attachment makes all the difference.

I would go with at least a 20 or a 25 or even a 30hp to plane a B-11.5. I honestly don't think a 15 would do it with 3 people. If it did it would be a struggle....IMO.

Fletcher500 said:

Good feedback on the engine. I was also wondering about the Carb vs. injection aspects.

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I have the 10' Bullfrof with 20hp Honda and it has been satisfactory. The engine sits outside all winter andhas never failed to start on the first crank.

Unlikely that I will ever replace it, but I would look closely at Yamaha. One cute bit of engineering I've noticed:

To give my Honda a freshwater flush, I have to screw in a little brass hose adapter (which I had to buy for extra bucks).

The Yamaha has a built-in flush system. I'd look for other little niceties.

menzies said:

Dang, my shot was at the OP, and I missed!

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You were using a shotgun and I was collateral damage or...I was just feeling guilty. Either worked!

Menzies, a predictable response based on reading a few of your posts over the years. There is an old saying about getting in a squirmish with a pig. Have you heard that one?

First Base, actually, I prefer to let others on here feel superior about themselves. I avoid the drama, and enjoy talking about boating.

Ski, please see attached link:
Yacht Tender 11.5 - Bullfrog Boats

Fletcher500 said:

Menzies, a predictable response based on reading a few of your posts over the years. There is an old saying about getting in a squirmish with a pig. Have you heard that one?

First Base, actually, I prefer to let others on here feel superior about themselves. I avoid the drama, and enjoy talking about boating.

Ski, please see attached link:
Yacht Tender 11.5 - Bullfrog Boats

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I just try take it all in good fun...even the edgier comments. Back to your post, if I may ask, what is the recommended HP or OB weight for the dinghy? I am not familiar with it, is it console steering putting you a little further up front to counter the weight?

Given that 40hp has seemed just right on our 13' Whaler for these past 11 years, I can see a 30 working just fine on an 11.5 Bullfrog.

I'd add that indeed electric tilt and trim, binnacle control, remote steering is the cat's meow, don't know if we could live without it now and go back to tiller set ups.

FB- I looked at the BF link. Talk to them about the best motor option. Just my gut feel is that a 25hp would do you fine. But they are the experts, ask.

Fletcher500 said:

Ski, please see attached link:
Yacht Tender 11.5 - Bullfrog Boats

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Wow. 698-lbs (with motor). Realize that can vary slightly based on actual motor, but that's 456-lb heavier than our dinghy/outboard. I think the console version of our dinghy is only another 80-lbs or so...

-Chris

Evinrude is the answer...

Ski in NC said:

I did a little sniffing on the websites. At 25hp, the Yamaha is two cyl, off the list in my mind. At 30hp the Yam is 3 cyl, but 207lb, heavy!! The Honda is three cyl, but carbureted, off the list in my mind.

Suzuki, Merc and Tohatsu are all three cyl and EFI, weight about 160-175 for 25-30hp. Those look viable.

One thing to look at is transom height. I can't remember the specs but at 30hp some may only be available in 20" and the boat might need 15". But could be 20, check on that.

Some have both pull and electric start, some just electric. On a 30, I would want electric, but on a dink having a pull start is a nice backup. Probably a bitch to pull, but nice to have anyhow when batt goes flat.

On these rather heavy motors, power trim is super nice too.

Happy shopping!!

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For these heavy small boats (light ones too!) Evinrude motors 30 hp+ are the answer. This is because of TORQUE. You will get on plane easier and stay there at lower rpm, and save at least 15% in fuel. 2 stroke (Evinrude 30 hp+) vs 4 stroke (everyone else): ALL Evinrude E-Tec 30+ hp are DIRECT fuel injected (not a throttle body or worse carb), low weight-150 lbs, both electric start and trim and tilt available, oh and these new 2 strokes put out 85% LESS carbon monoxide than 4 strokes! Currently 7 year non-declining coverage (may go to 10 year during boat show season), MADE IN THE USA!

I prefer Honda four strokes, but the Tohatsu has proven to be very liable. There are a lot of them running around here in the sub 50hp range. The price to buy I think is why there are so many around here.

I had a ding in the fender of my car I think a shopping cart drifted into it. At any rate I took it to the body shop and they were able to remove the ding without having to repaint

motion30 said:

I had a ding in the fender of my car I think a shopping cart drifted into it. At any rate I took it to the body shop and they were able to remove the ding without having to repaint

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Glad it wasn't a dink in the fender of your car. That would be bad.

Wow! Now I have a pretty good idea who's been blowing by us at the speed of heat while at anchor. We have a 6hp four-stroke Suzuki on a 10.6' RIB which is slow (stately?), but then, so is our big boat.

jglabrown said:

Wow! Now I have a pretty good idea who's been blowing by us at the speed of heat while at anchor. We have a 6hp four-stroke Suzuki on a 10.6' RIB which is slow (stately?), but then, so is our big boat.

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Don't go judging people on their faster dinghies. A lot can be accomplished on a planing dinghy regardless of how slow the big boat is.

I had that Bullrog with t he 30 HP Honda--you do NOT want less horsepower. It will run well with 2 people in the boat but any more and it slows down--won't get on plane--of course I am larger and we were probably exceeding the recommended weight limits of the boat when sight seeing.


The Honda 30 hp was electric start and also has an emergency rope pull but need a wrench and have to remove cowling to access.

I enjoyed the NO maintenance of the Bullfrog and that I had no concerns about punctures but it is heavier than the inflatables.

Decided on the Honda 30HP for the Ding. It is being put together in WA, and will be shipped down in a few weeks.

I bought a new Suzuki 15 HP for my inflatable in October. Extremely happy with it so far. It has electric start and fuel injection. Surprisingly, the fuel injection doesn't require a battery to be hooked to the motor. Installed the motor just before leaving for FL and haven't installed the battery and box for the electric start yet. Always starts on the second pull (think the first pull provides stored power for the injection system).

Ted

O C Diver said:

I bought a new Suzuki 15 HP for my inflatable in October. Extremely happy with it so far. It has electric start and fuel injection. Surprisingly, the fuel injection doesn't require a battery to be hooked to the motor. Installed the motor just before leaving for FL and haven't installed the battery and box for the electric start yet. Always starts on the second pull (think the first pull provides stored power for the injection system).

Ted

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I was intrigued by the no battery for the fuel injection on the Suzuki until I saw this vlog from the Technomadia people!

AdmiralS said:

I was intrigued by the no battery for the fuel injection on the Suzuki until I saw this vlog from the Technomadia people!

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I was curious about this, and watched the whole video (while cooking).

They slammed Suzuki pretty hard about the lack of the diagnostic cable. Fair enough.

Then at the very end, they stated that the Zuke was ailing from.... Bad Fuel. Once that was sorted, the Zuke reportedly ran fine.

Not exactly a condemnation of the technology.

Ski in NC said:

I was curious about this, and watched the whole video (while cooking).

They slammed Suzuki pretty hard about the lack of the diagnostic cable. Fair enough.

Then at the very end, they stated that the Zuke was ailing from.... Bad Fuel. Once that was sorted, the Zuke reportedly ran fine.

Not exactly a condemnation of the technology.

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Classic! While I can relate to their frustration with the dealer over the diagnostic cable, engine failure was 100% operator failure. Wonder how long it will be before the Yamaha falls from favour.

Hard to imagine Suzuki wouldn't next day air ship a cable to the dealer, even if the dealer or the customer was willing to pay for it.

Ted

O C Diver said:

Classic! While I can relate to their frustration with the dealer over the diagnostic cable, engine failure was 100% operator failure. Wonder how long it will be before the Yamaha falls from favour.

Hard to imagine Suzuki wouldn't next day air ship a cable to the dealer, even if the dealer or the customer was willing to pay for it.

Ted

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100% agree on the fuel problem. But multiple dealers not having the diagnostic cable was the troubling part. Certified support is something I have overlooked in the past and is now something I consider a major piece of the puzzle when making a purchase decision.

AdmiralS said:

100% agree on the fuel problem. But multiple dealers not having the diagnostic cable was the troubling part. Certified support is something I have overlooked in the past and is now something I consider a major piece of the puzzle when making a purchase decision.

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Possibly. Personally, I view this as one side of the story. Secondly, I doubt having the cable would have helped diagnose the problem, other than eliminating some possibilities. Finally, would their experience have been any different with any other 15 HP outboard, with the same problem, and the same service department?

Ted

The internet can be a great source of info, but I am always skeptical of reviews by folks with a website/blog. A lot of variables involved, so you don’t always get the full set of facts and interpretations of problems can be skewed. Not discrediting their vid or knowledge base, just my view of the internet in general.

Ski in NC said:

They slammed Suzuki pretty hard about the lack of the diagnostic cable. Fair enough.

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I'd have thought that might be a dealer thing, not a Suzuki (corporate) thing.

We recently had to have some service (that same outboard), checked with the closest dealer where we happened to be at the time, no joy, he wasn't set up to do diagnostics. Not to worry, another dealer further up the road could have done it... but he was booked up and couldn't get to us for a few days.

We just chilled for the time being, brought the thing to our own dealer when we got home, he had diagnostic capabilities, all worked out from there.

Seemed to us like dealers seemed to have their specialties...

-Chris

For our dinks we look at a very different criteria.

A 4 HP Johnson Yacht twin and an 18 HP Evinrude serve our purpose because they are easily repairable.

What good is an engine that can't be relied on? Or at least repaired?

I too cringe when considering a little outboard with full blown EFI with computers and sensors. But the truth is, at least on the larger outboards and especially automobiles, these systems have proven quite reliable. I'm around these things all day and the number of them that need dedicated diagnostic troubleshooting is remarkably low. For the most part, they just work.

Yep, recovered many from water in the fuel, but that does not require diagnostic equipment. It is a different fix than draining carbs, but generally no more difficult than a carb engine.

And you can let an EFI motor sit for six months and it will crank right up. Carb engine, you better get out the tools 'cause you are going to clean some carbs!!

And how many times have I had a dead OMC with an electronic power pack or trigger wheel or stator?? Many many. Or on the really old ones, clean the breaker points.

I'm still skeptical of the little EFI motors because they are different (battery-less electrical power), but due to the very real benefits, I'm going to give them a chance.

Did I mention how much I despise cleaning carbs??

Ski in NC said:

I too cringe when considering a little outboard with full blown EFI with computers and sensors. But the truth is, at least on the larger outboards and especially automobiles, these systems have proven quite reliable. I'm around these things all day and the number of them that need dedicated diagnostic troubleshooting is remarkably low. For the most part, they just work.

Yep, recovered many from water in the fuel, but that does not require diagnostic equipment. It is a different fix than draining carbs, but generally no more difficult than a carb engine.

And you can let an EFI motor sit for six months and it will crank right up. Carb engine, you better get out the tools 'cause you are going to clean some carbs!!

And how many times have I had a dead OMC with an electronic power pack or trigger wheel or stator?? Many many. Or on the really old ones, clean the breaker points.

I'm still skeptical of the little EFI motors because they are different (battery-less electrical power), but due to the very real benefits, I'm going to give them a chance.

Did I mention how much I despise cleaning carbs??

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Part of my motivation for a fuel injected Suzuki was the poor quality and lack of rebuild kits for my Lehr carburetor. While keeping an older carburated outboard alive, was an option, it's clear the marine market is moving away from them and what remains is likely going to be of lesser quality. While an EFI outboard has more or different failure points, operator error (contaminated fuel) seems to still be the most common (easily preventable) problem.

Ted

I'm not at all surprised that the people in the youtube video had fuel related issues with their Suzuki as I have seen the same thing.


I have a 20hp 'zuki on our dinghy, I think it is a 2013, so it's not new but still pretty young. I've owned and run many, many outboards, so I'm pretty used to their little ways. We tend to use the 'zuki very hard for the month we spend each year on the boat in the Bahamas, then one or two other weekends a year. Other than that it just sits. I know that's tough on an outboard, but it's an unavoidable result of our life schedule, at least for now.



I try to mitigate the issues by always using non ethanol fuel and not keeping old fuel in the tank (I pour it into my truck after each trip). But there is not much you can do about the fuel that is in the injectors and the lines. My dealer told me NOT to run my motor dry, but to stabilize the fuel, so that's what I do. I have had three failures due to "bad" fuel. Two times the fuel came from the Bahamas, and likely had ethanol/water in it. The last incident wrecked the high pressure injector pump, which is a $500 part.



I hoped that the EFI motors would be more tolerant of fuel issues than the carburetor motors, but my 'zuki seems about the same as the other motors I've owned. Last year I installed a big racor spin off fuel filter with a clear bowl on the dinghy, the same filter I have in my flats boat for my 115 e-tec. It seems to have helped a lot but time will tell, I guess.