Is 10 micron enough?

After putting on my CAV spin-on adaptor, I am having trouble finding a 2 micron spin-on filter with M16x1.5 threads. There are lots of 10 micron filters and I have had a 15 micron Luber-Finer LFF3521 on there for the past few months. Problem is its physical size is longer than I would like AND only a 15 micron. So now it's time to change. The cross-reference filters are:

Luber-Finer = LFF3521

Baldwin = BF788

Donaldson = P550440

Fleetguard = FF5052

Fram = P4102A

Wix = 33358

Sierra = 18-7942

I think these are all 10 micron filters. I already have a 30 and 10 micron in the 2-stage filter, so a 2 makes sense, right? Have I screwed myself with the adaptor? Can I just run 30-10-10? Should I do 10-2-10 (as stupid as that sounds) and assume the fuel is already filtered to 30 when it's pumped or polished in my rig?

There should be a bunch of information on this in the archives, and especially over at boatdiesel.com.* Diesel filtering philosophy can vary a lot with a lot of good arguments, but*I'm not sure it's time to start this one again!

After I went to bed, I realized I forgot the engine size. It's a Perkins 6.354.

To get the most effective use out of the filters 30 -> 10 -> 2 is generally what is recommended.* I just put a Racor 500 2 micron in front of the OEM filter and after the 30 -> 10 polisher so the rating of the OEM filter isn't as important.


-- Edited by Delfin on Saturday 16th of July 2011 08:49:59 AM

Why not install the Perkins recommended on engine, no matter what the micron rating? Also, beta rating*is more important than a generic stamped on micron size.

I also would insist on 2 microns for newer but non common rail diesels like the Yanmar 4LH, 6LP or 6LY or any of the Cummins 6B series.

David*********

*

The older Cummins 6B engines had a 7 micron element I believe, at least that was what I was told by CumminsThat included the 1999 6bta I had in my Mainship and the 1991 6bt I had in my Dodge Ram truck.

*Right now for my Lehman I have 30 to 10 to 7.

*


-- Edited by jleonard on Sunday 17th of July 2011 05:16:06 PM

I called my Perkins distributor (I have a 6.354) and asked what was the micron rating for their CAV filters and they said something to the effect of "we don't give them a micron rating, but reccomend using our (Perkins) filters."*

I put the CAV adapter on and used a screw on that ABC reccomended which should be 10.* I think for an old Perkins the only thing a 2 will get you is clogged up faster.* I go 30 --> 10 and haven't had any problems, but my tanks are in good shape.

FWIW on the advice of our diesel shop and friends in the marine diesel manufacturing industry we have been running 2-micron filters on everything since buying the boat. We subscribe to the philosophy that if there's any crud in the fuel the farther from the injection system we can stop it the better. Our boat had new fuel tanks that feed from their lowest points when we bought it and the fuel dock we use has a high turnover of fuel and relatively new storage tanks. So far we have yet to see any dirt or water in the filter bowls and the filter elements coming out every 100-150 hours, other than being darker from the dye in the fuel, look just like the new filter elements going in. If one has dirty tanks or a bacteria problem perhaps the progressively-smaller filter idea is better, but I think I'd rather be changing 2-micron filters more often than knowingly passing stuff through to get even closer to the injection system.

Advice I got from the PO of my boat made sense to me and is in aggreement with Marin's comments above.* He suggested running 5 micron* filters in the Racors coming right out of the tanks.* His observation, the filter elements for the Racors cross referenced to Wix, were way cheaper than the CAVs on the Perkins.* So why not capture the crud early.* It safer to capture it early than pass it down stream to capture it later.* It seems to me there is always a chance that crud can get*past when changing filter elements, The secondary filters do that.* The only change I anticipate making is to add vacumn gages downstream of the Racors to give me a heads up on filter condition.


-- Edited by Capn Craig on Tuesday 19th of July 2011 01:27:44 PM

Capn Craig wrote:
....suggested running 5 micron* filters in the Racors coming right out of the tanks...

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*Capn:* Are you sure you aren't running 2 micron filters?* I think Racors only come in 30, 10 and 2 micron for the 200, 500, 900 and 1000 turbine series?* The 30's are red, the 10's are blue and the 2's are brown.* It would be great if they are making a 5 now.

Dunno I guess.* I will check that out.* The elements are Wix not Racor.* I'll take the number of a box and do a little research tonight.

Cummins recommended a 10 micron on my 6bt 5.9 but my mechanic had me put 2 micron into the Racors, largely I think, because the secondary filter on the starboard side is reachable only by a midget with very long arms. I'm the size of seven midgets and would have no hope of getting to it but I can swap the racor filter in 2 minutes flat.

If it's the filter arrangement I am thinking of it can be remoted without a lot of work. I believe those filters are 7 micron.

But...if the 2 micron Racor is working for you leave it. Keep in mind that if your fuel gets crudded up the 2 micron will clog quickly compared to a 10 or 30. If that happens you may need to rethink.

We relocated the filters out of the engine space , to a spot where they can be very easily changed.

The pair of Raycor 1000 can easily be switched L to R , so we use the 2micron as primary , and let the on engine 10 micron as backup.

With the new location they are gravity fed , so priming is not a problem.

My Mechanic's wisdom is to use staged filtering: if relying only on the engine's own 2 micron, you have to change that one more frequently;
if you also have Racor 500's, (most common) use 10 in the Racors, backed up by the 2 on the engine; This is also backed up in PMM articles by Steve.
if more anal than that, 30 first, then 10, then 2.
If you put 2 first, the on engine is not going to do anything at all. This may be needed if you can never reach it. Otherwise, you should change that one out on the same frequency as the Racor 10, which will show you when a change is needed, by watching the mess accumulate in the bowl, or if you have a vac guage on top.
If you have really old engines, filtration is not nearly as critical as in new technology.

I have 30 to 10 to on emgiome which is 7.

I think if you go back several years Steve from Passagemaker was a 2 micron only proponent. It was only fairly recently he changed to multistage and that is becuse of all the chatter about it on boatdiesel.

Boatdiesel.com has an article or two, written by an expert (25 years in the business in California with Cummins and Yanmar engines) on fuel filtering. Believes in stage filtering. Recommends something like a 20 micron to catch the crap, than a 10 for a little finer filtration and than on to the on engine filter which is usually a 2 micron. The first two have water drains ports on the cartridge. With that set up the on engine change is infrequent. Can be purchased with a vacuum gage to keep track of your system as well. Also a primer system. If you want to keep your racor he also has a suggested sytem to incorporate the racor as well. You can also go directly to his web site SeaBoard marine. I have no financial interest in the company but find it to be very reputable. Tony Athens is also a moderator for boatdiesel.com.


-- Edited by Fighterpilot on Saturday 7th of January 2012 06:43:01 PM

I've heard a number of proponents for the 30-10-2 micron staging with the first one referred to as the "mud" filter.

dvd


-- Edited by dvd on Saturday 7th of January 2012 07:15:17 PM

It may be interesting to some that Racor 2 micron filters are made for the after-market user. The engine manufacturers normally don't require or recommend using them. As a matter of fact, MTU's newest 1900 bar injection pressure common rail engines call for a 5 micron final filter. Denso's latest 3000 bar injection system uses a 10 micron (24 micron absolute) final filter.

The fuel filter on the RR engine that powers Marin's 787 is 10 micron (40 micron absolute) and everyone knows how clean jet fuel has to be right? Most of the engines use 10 to 40 micron filters depending on the model of fuel pump.

Do you think the engine and injection system manufacturers might know what works and doesn't waste money?

boatdiesels tune is 30, 10 and manufacturers on engine recommended filter.*The micron size of the on engine is*as Rikcb points out, not always or necessarily 2 micron.

"Do you think the engine and injection system manufacturers might know what works and doesn't waste money?"


Sure they do, but there is a huge difference between a big truck a tug or commercial operating boat.

The usual yachtie does 100-200 hours in a good year , not operate daily or 24/7.

The cost of filtering may be a concern when you run thru 1,000G a day , but for most rec vessels the filters are changed annually at best.

The cost of a $10 Raycore is nothing to the rec boater, compared to the horror of bleeding a system that required a filter change while away from the dock..

Commercials use enough fuel that years old fuel, and the tank gunk from decades of minor use are seldom a problem.

The gov mandate to require veggi oil in diesel , which will strip gunk from tank walls ,is a horror for old underused fuel tanks.

An extra $10 filter or two per year , does not "waste money" for most rec boaters..

A piece of junk doesn't know if it is in a recreational trawler fuel line or a tugboat fuel line. But since you mentioned changing filters while underway, that little joy seems to be more prevalent on this forum than on commercial boats in similar coastwise service.

My point is that the engine and injection system manufacturer have a much greater investment in keeping their products working reliably than a recreational user. If they thought a 2 micron filter provided any advantage they would use them.

I have yet to read about anyone having much concern for their oil filter and if particulates get through that one they can do more expensive damage much quicker than the fuel filters. Does anyone even know the micron rating of their oil filters? No? H'mmm ... does that mean we think the engine manufacturer knows what it is talking about with regard to lube oil but has it all wrong about fuel?

What do you think the RNLI boats do for filtering? They operate even less than the average yachtie and their fuel tanks get stirred up a lot more when they do go out.

What do you think the RNLI boats do for filtering?

My guess would be like a fire truck does,

Damn good PM.

Didn't think about remoting the engine filter, I'll check into that.* Thanks!

2 Microns?? Makes you wonder who started this one?**Does anyone know of*any boat engine manufacture who, in writing, recommends 2 micron fuel filtration?* Or is this just the old adage, "If a little bit is good, then a lot more is has got to be better!"

It's like Jiffy Lube who recommends 3,000 mile oil changes on all cars and then tells you your manufacture recommends it, (even though they don't!!)* How many people open the owners manual and read what the manufacture actually recommends.* My Chrysler is 7,500 miles normal use.

*

Edelweiss wrote:2 Microns?? Makes you wonder who started this one?**Does anyone know of*any boat engine manufacture who, in writing, recommends 2 micron fuel filtration?* Or is this just the old adage, "If a little bit is good, then a lot more is has got to be better!"

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*I'm not sure what the one on my 6LYA is but the final on the 4JHE was a 2 micron as supplied by Yanmar.* In addition to the 2 microns it is supposed to be impregnated with a lube for the injection pump as well.* This from the mouths of the folks at a*Mack Boring training class.

RickB wrote:
The fuel filter on the RR engine that powers Marin's 787 is 10 micron (40 micron absolute)

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If I had a 787 it would be powered by GE engines, thank you very*much.* I have no idea what GE's filtration requirement is but I'm guessing it's not much different or any different*than RR's.

Edelweiss wrote:
How many people open the owners manual and read what the manufacture actually recommends.*

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*I do but I still change the oil and filter every 3,000 miles regardless of what the manual says.* I do this because a) oil and filters are cheap in the quantities that I use them in,*and b) I've yet to have a mechanic--- auto, aviation, or marine--- tell me that fresh oil is bad for an engine.

2 microns is the nominal (read usual) size filtered , 10X bigger debris going thru is possible , that's why multiple filters are in line.

Edelweiss wrote:
2 Microns?? Makes you wonder who started this one?**Does anyone know of*any boat engine manufacture who, in writing, recommends 2 micron fuel filtration?* Or is this just the old adage, "If a little bit is good, then a lot more is has got to be better!"

It's like Jiffy Lube who recommends 3,000 mile oil changes on all cars and then tells you your manufacture recommends it, (even though they don't!!)* How many people open the owners manual and read what the manufacture actually recommends.* My Chrysler is 7,500 miles normal use.

*

Click to expand...

*Makes one wonder why most of the Racor filters listed in the West Marine catalog are 2 micros.