Proposal for Off-the-deep-end forum

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A number have argued that OTDE is an outlet for unruly members. I argue it's a draw for them, and causes them to keep coming back.


Rather than give them an outlet, let's stick to the rules, discipline trouble makers, and show them the door if they can't behave in a manner consistent with TFs stated rules.


TF is nearly always a civilized place. If blocking the creation of new threads on OTDE generates a surge of misbehavior on TF, then I think we will have proven that we have some people who need to change their ways, or go. Let's deal with that problem, if it exists, and not hide sweep in under the rug in OTDE.



And just to reiterate, the proposal is NOT to eliminate OTDE. I do think there is value in having a place to move discussions that start to get out of hand, and let people still continue the debate. But the creation of a new thread on OPTDE is by definition counter to the behavior rules and values of TF, and the poster knows it. Otherwise they wouldn't have places it there. So exactly why do we allow these explicit and conscious violations of the rules? Why do we accept this behavior from our members for even one second?
 
ksanders said:
OTDE is easy to avoid.

Just don’t go there.
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Yep, How is this suggestion any way different from the current efforts of FaceBook, YouTube, Twitter, all liberal owned, curtaling and in cases, eliminating any and all free speech (First Amendment) that they object too. I hear this suggestion as a objection to free speech specifically as you have stated. There are a myriads of
of objectionable subject sites, porn as an example. I don't do porn, I know it exist, I am disgusted with the described content. yet under the 1st. it is allowed.
I have and do participate on the OTDE. Having heavy disagreements with fellow trawler members on a myriad of political subjects. Would I advocate shutting down my opposition because I disagree or "Don't Like" his or there position? No and as such I view the maker of this suggestion a sort that deems himself in a superior position with a god given right to determine his personal feelings on others.

Al-Ketchikan
 
Al said:
Yep, How is this suggestion any way different from the current efforts of FaceBook, YouTube, Twitter, all liberal owned, curtaling and in cases, eliminating any and all free speech (First Amendment) that they object too. I hear this suggestion as a objection to free speech specifically as you have stated. There are a myriads of
of objectionable subject sites, porn as an example. I don't do porn, I know it exist, I am disgusted with the described content. yet under the 1st. it is allowed.
I have and do participate on the OTDE. Having heavy disagreements with fellow trawler members on a myriad of political subjects. Would I advocate shutting down my opposition because I disagree or "Don't Like" his or there position? No and as such I view the maker of this suggestion a sort that deems himself in a superior position with a god given right to determine his personal feelings on others.

Al-Ketchikan
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My proposal has nothing to do with any particular point of view or position, so not trying to "silence" any one position. And this isn't a 1st amendment issues. This is a privately run site with a variety of rules about content, behavior, etc. I'm suggesting we follow those rules. There are plenty of places where people can express whatever views they have on non-trawler topics. I'm suggesting that TF is not the place for the spew that originates on OTDE. Take it to a public street corner, write a book, write a blog, write letters to editors, buy space in newspapers, or express your non-trawler "stuff" through any of many different venues. And more importantly, if 90% of your TF participation is creating new posts on OTDE, you are in the wrong place.
 
Al said:
Yep, How is this suggestion any way different from the current efforts of FaceBook, YouTube, Twitter, all liberal owned, curtaling and in cases, eliminating any and all free speech (First Amendment) that they object too. I hear this suggestion as a objection to free speech specifically as you have stated. There are a myriads of
of objectionable subject sites, porn as an example. I don't do porn, I know it exist, I am disgusted with the described content. yet under the 1st. it is allowed.
I have and do participate on the OTDE. Having heavy disagreements with fellow trawler members on a myriad of political subjects. Would I advocate shutting down my opposition because I disagree or "Don't Like" his or there position? No and as such I view the maker of this suggestion a sort that deems himself in a superior position with a god given right to determine his personal feelings on others.

Al-Ketchikan
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Well these outlets as with all other private ventures are not covered under the first. So the owners and operators can set the ground rules. We are guests that's passing thru on our way to the inevitable , to be replaced by probably another time wasting hunt and pecker on a keyboard.:D


Let me add that politics and religion has totally ruined the wooden boat forum. The ugly climate of personal animosity transferred from their bilge area to the numerous boat sections and those have all but withered on the vine for good running content. SO I have seen first hand what politics can do to destroy substantive content forums.
 
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Bigsfish said:
Al, I think you are laying the groundwork for more booze and food at Ft. Pierce this year.
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The booze, beer and Watfa's food was top shelf! It'll keep me coming back.

All TFers I've met there were EXACTLY the same in person as I got from their online persona. Not one faker or wanna-be. It was a delight to meet so many great folks who I've conversed with for a long time. Some as long as 10 years.

Since I knew what many looked like, there were only two things that surprised me at FP; a person's height and voice. Looking forward to the next time.
 
As I have the extreme right wing and the extreme left wing members on ignore, there isn't much content left in OTDE to view.
 
twistedtree said:
This is a privately run site with a variety of rules about content, behavior, etc. I'm suggesting we follow those rules. I'm suggesting that TF is not the place for the spew that originates on OTDE. Take it to a public street corner, write a book, write a blog, write letters to editors, buy space in newspapers, or express your non-trawler "stuff" through any of many different venues. And more importantly, if 90% of your TF participation is creating new posts on OTDE, you are in the wrong place.
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Okay Twisted- Over the past exchanges and looking into the future, as two Trawler Forum members. We are not going to agree much.

Yes, it is a privately run site. The owners have provided a democratic venue that recognizes a need to have an option for subject/opinion arena that members (Visitors?)would feel comfortable in and not bother members wishing to be seperated or not exposed to the contain.

It will be interesting to see how the "Owners" now respond to your suggestion.
As those involve with the OTDE, including on occasion,myself, are active posters to the main menu's nautical subjects in acceptable content language it would seem a bit harsh to state without knowing, what percentage of our post are OTDE.

In the end, you are advocating Facebook,Twitter,and YouTube's :censored:actions be taken by the "Owners" of the Trawler Forum.

Be MHO that leaving well enough alone would be the rational decision.
I will close by recognizing your right to make your recommendation.
Under the 1st. it will not stand without challenge.

Regards,
Al
PS: Regardless the stance or our disagreement, were you to require any form of assistance it would be offered unequivocally.
 
maybe this topic belongs in OTDE?
 
I too have 'disassociated' myself from a few topic/forums. Usually it is because people keep adding 'what if' conditions. It starts out with a basic cut and dry question and then pile on 'conditions' making the entire subject too confusing to understand. They are subjects and answers that prevent one to draw a conclusion, interjected their own personal agenda, not personal experience.
I usually tell folks I am leaving the forum because of the "what if" or it become circular. I would like to believe I leave the forums before I become part of the problem but, I am human.
 
BandB said:
I don't go there so doesn't bother me, but share Twisted's view. Why should be create any place for divisive discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with boating. It is one thing if people want to argue some environmental water bill in Oregon but creating a forum for hate to be spewed just makes no sense. And to say it's so we could move threads there when people get out of hand, we shouldn't move those threads, but delete them, and if we have those who can't come here without discussing politics, then invite them to go elsewhere. Many of the discussions have no place in our society, but certainly no place on TF. Can't we get into enough fights on boating issues without engaging in them on political, social and religious issues?

And for anyone who thinks for a moment that words don't harm, I don't know anything to say to you.
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:thumb: Very well said.
 
Al said:
Yep, How is this suggestion any way different from the current efforts of FaceBook, YouTube, Twitter, all liberal owned, curtailing and in cases, eliminating any and all free speech (First Amendment) that they object too. I hear this suggestion as an objection to free speech specifically as you have stated.
Click to expand...

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules

About the First Amendment, censorship and your "right to free speech"

We believe in public freedom of speech but that right does not infer that others have to publish your speech. TrawlerForum.com is privately owned and we require members to abide by our rules and by the decisions of our staff. If you post outside these guidelines your post may be edited or deleted - any law or constitutional right your country may have regarding freedom of speech does not apply to this site.
 
I've just an inkling of what TT and BB have accomplished in their lives. They should be listened to by the TF owners. They suggest a chance for the TF product to rise above the nonsense of other platforms which have inundated the world scene with hate speech.

As with others on TF, we acquired our own expensive toys by doing something right. What is right in this instance is clear. Which direction TF chooses as an entity is not. There is a simple Q & A here, the outcome will be revealing.

Remembering, we are discussing the hate speech content of OTDE as currently supported by TF, not the humor or music favs. ,
 
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Peter B said:
I suggest it does have one virtue, and one we have kept coming back to over the years, and I've been on here some ten years. And that is it is a place in which to sequester those who have a tendency to start and/or post to contentious threads, and a place to which threads that have become contentious can be diverted. I mention this point specifically because deletion or closing a thread often upsets some who were following it and participating - often trying to stick to the main point of debate in a reasonably responsible manner, and sometimes the subject had some merit, even if not boating orientated. After all, even though a shared love of boating draws us here, we are not one dimensional folk, are we? We do have views on other issues.

So, OTDE is really, in my view, a place which I suspect we would be forced to re-invent if abolished altogether, or to which we would be forced to divert more and more threads, if the suggestion made by the OP, (which I admit sounds excellent at first glance), was to be adopted.

I have posted this because although the first rule of moderation is that it is not discussed on open forum, this issue is really not such a discussion, but a serious suggestion re the structure and function of the forum. As such, I feel, as have some other fellow moderators, it does demand some response from those of us given the responsibility of day to day management, because of the implications of the suggestion from the OP.
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Well said, Peter.

IMO - OTDE is sort of like a wet-source garbage can in the kitchen. Needed to put smelly stuff in and usually well hidden in an island cabinet or under the sink. Also... OTDE humor is not toooo bad; but, bad enough so that it should be in OTDE!

There are news programs I do not respect nor "watch" on TV; simply by not tuning into that channel. Any TF member can not "watch" [tune into] OTDE... simply by not visiting that TF "channel".

That said - I believe that a person who does not want to "watch" OTDE has no right to ask for OTDE to be closed down for persons who do want to "watch"! Any more than I have the right to ask TV stations to stop broadcasting a channel I do not like to "watch".

:popcorn:
 
People post logical fallacies and emotional arguments in such forums, not intelligent conversations. Almost all people lack the ability to do so. At one time it was a good argument for representative government. Looking at the current representatives, not so clear.

There are also people paid to post in pol and rel forums who will control (spam) conversations. Better off without them.

I like "Bermuda Triangle" as an option for the name of the forum. You can "check out" but you can never leave. There you go, another name.
 
Having never been on that forum I think I have the perfect solution for those who go on it and are offended: DONT GO THERE. Simple solutions. See I’m not offended because I don’t even know how to find that forum. If something bothers you why keep going back to revisit it?
In my formative years my dad would tell me just view another’s statement that I didn’t agree with that everyone was entitled to his SSO. I’ve used that expression my entire life it means SIMPLE, STUPID, OPINION. That takes the sting out of what I heard or read.
 
Al

Watfa has already planned her meals and booze is included in every course.
 
Sunchaser wrote;
“When seasoned boaters like Eric prefer Facebook”.....

One of the reasons facebook is a good alternative is that TF is a MAN CAVE and on FB there is a nice balance of male and female. Too much female at times actually but the cats and other pet stuff you can just scroll past. Some of the animal vids are really good though. One needs to be constantly aware of who’s posting.
Extended time spent here on TF eventually leads to some stress as the comforting and balancing element of female input is lacking leading us to get our furr up easily or even naturally in the male only forum. We are usually in the company of females and tend to be better mannered. Perhaps that’s a good case for marriage. OTDE is probably just a vent for the competitiveness when it ramps up to the annoying level. Seems to work.

For these reasons I would vote to retain OTDE so it's elment stays off the regular forum. I remember a guy here that was very annoying (to me) in the past but since OTDE he posts little on the regular forum but his posting is always nice and polite.
 
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Odte

bnoft said:
maybe this topic belongs in OTDE?
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Agree, Thought this late last evening as I thought on the discussion wondering why, when compared to past instance where a post or two of mine made in innocents was judged to be worthy of transferred to OTDE or eliminated in total without any explanation. (Not in all, a forum moderator on one occasion offered a reasonable explanation):angel:
 
Thanks for posting the "Rule". Point well taken. That is the rule as a joining member acknowledged Not being aware of the existence of the OTDE site at that time . :banghead:

Now If you post outside these guidelines your post may be edited or deleted - Provides an existing provision to "Twisted".

The solution exist. it is up to the owners to police their rule.

There are several senariors that formulate in potential decisions (or not).



Shrew said:
http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/misc.php?do=sknetwork&page=rules

About the First Amendment, censorship and your "right to free speech"

We believe in public freedom of speech but that right does not infer that others have to publish your speech. TrawlerForum.com is privately owned and we require members to abide by our rules and by the decisions of our staff. If you post outside these guidelines your post may be edited or deleted - any law or constitutional right your country may have regarding freedom of speech does not apply to this site.
Click to expand...

 
Nomad Willy said:
Sunchaser wrote;
“When seasoned boaters like Eric prefer Facebook”.....

One of the reasons facebook is a good alternative is that TF is a MAN CAVE and on FB there is a nice balance of male and female. Too much female at times actually but the cats and other pet stuff you can just scroll past. Some of the animal vids are really good though. One needs to be constantly aware of who’s posting.
Extended time spent here on TF eventually leads to some stress as the comforting and balancing element of female input is lacking leading us to get our furr up easily or even naturally in the male only forum. We are usually in the company of females and tend to be better mannered. Perhaps that’s a good case for marriage. OTDE is probably just a vent for the competitiveness when it ramps up to the annoying level. Seems to work.

For these reasons I would vote to retain OTDE so it's elment stays off the regular forum. I remember a guy here that was very annoying (to me) in the past but since OTDE he posts little on the regular forum but his posting is always nice and polite.
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Wifey B: They still post that drivel here sometimes and it gets moved to OTDE. I just don't see a reason to encourage such anywhere on a boating forum. To the owner, OTDE posts do show up in searches and do reflect on the forum as content. If I owned it, I'd be ashamed to be associated with them, just as facebook and other sites have tried to distance.

As to females, I resemble that remark. Unfortunately, TF has shown itself not to be female friendly. Can't scare or run me off although I know some wish they could, but several female friends who have come here have quickly departed. I've tried to talk them into staying. In some cases it was couples. We had a female come here recently who posted and left quickly.

I don't think it's anything anyone consciously does, but it's like a bunch of old men talking and a female walks up and they say hello, then turn back to talking booze and guns or something. I'd rather talk cats and I don't have a feline.

For some reason though the majority of females haven't felt welcomed here. I do know some have been very offended by the term "Admiral" while some females like it. Funny, the sailing world and forums have a lot of active females. :confused:
 
Folks, this subject has been discussed at length amonst the owners/reps and moderators. This is the solution and the result. Back to your regular scheduled program.
 
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