Is there a word that's the opposite of Kudos:

psneeld · Oct 21, 2018

BandB said:
And too many shop on the basis of price and don't get experts in the areas they need.

My real point is there just isnt that many marinas to support the growth of "experts", let alone a full stable of techs in a lot of areas.

There are lots of pleasure boats in south Jersey but few marinas that seem to have a great reputation (although this does go back to many boatownets not understanding some basics).

One marina that I worked for as a captain (zero training in mecganical things) used me a lot for trouble shooting and minor wrenching. They only had to pay me half as much and they trusted me to do what I was told. Good work, but hardly an expert.

The good mechs, especially diesel guys or ones with broad experience would flock to the trucking kndustry up here because the pay was much better and not seasonal.

Cigatoo · Oct 21, 2018

It is extremely hard to hire help in any industry that involves mechanicle work. Automotive, heavy truck, the marine industry are all hurting. As you can imagine that makes it extremely difficulty to run a shop and schedule work effectively. However management owes the customer communication and updates for better or worse regardless of the situation.

“The growth of experts” is contingent on finding people with basic mechanical instincts that are mentally prepared and physically able to put in a full days work. Unless you have tried to find these people you don’t understand. Easier said than done when we have a couple of generations of kids that have spent their life sitting in front of a computer and can make a living at it as they get older. Much easier than crawling around a dirty engine in damp, wet, hot or cold, conditions. Not to mention that we have trained many generations that a college education “guarantees” you a more “respectable” career...........shame.

FoxtrotCharlie · Oct 21, 2018

i'm having some work done on or new boat at Turner Marine in Mobile - gave them a specific list, and have an agreement for no slip, elec or storage fee until the work is completed. They said it would be a couple of weeks before they could get started - then our son was injured in that ATV accident, so I have not been worrying about the boat. They called Fri and said the work would start Mon - we'll see how it goes, but at least no rent until the work is finished!

High Wire · Oct 21, 2018

I like that, no storage fees until the work is started. Although they could say they "started" the first day they stepped on the boat to scope out the job. What is the yards incentive to delay completion? They don't get paid up front so they are hurting themselves. :nonono:

Maybe they yard manager can't plan his way out of a paper bag.

O C Diver · Oct 21, 2018

Seems to me, storage should be charged at the rate of one day (at the monthly rate) for every 8 hours of billed labor, from the day it's dropped off till the day work is completed. If you drop it off and after a month, they have done 8 hours of work, you owe 1/30th of a month's storage.

Ted

FoxtrotCharlie · Oct 21, 2018

Nope, it's no fees until work is complete

. If I choose to leave the boat there for a while after work is complete, of course I will pay slip fees. This is their standard policy.

psneeld · Oct 21, 2018

We had kids begging for a bit of after work training to move up from yard tech to mechanic.

Being retired military with a tad more leadership experience than the maintenance or yard managers, I tried to sit down with them but they knew better and wouldn't pay the $25 to a mechanic to stay late and train.

Till a few years later and I demanded $125 an hour consulting fee instead of my $12.50 an hour captains pay for advice. Boy we're they surprised...

FoxtrotCharlie · Oct 21, 2018

"Till a few years later and I demanded $125 an hour consulting fee instead of my $12.50 an hour captains pay. Boy we're they surprised... "

Ha, back in Jan 1984 there was a hard freeze in Dallas where we were living. Could not find a plumber anywhere - all were booked. So I took off work, put on some old green coveralls and climbed under our old house to survey the muddy damage - went to a plumbing supply house and was waiting in line when a panicked,dazed guy came up to me and asked "we've been without water for two days -can you come out to our house now? what's your fee? When I realized he thought I was a plumber I said 'my usual fee is $175/hr' - he said 'for a damn plumber???' - I replied, no, for a Merger and Acquisition Specialist

He considered it for a moment :angel:

psneeld · Oct 21, 2018

Hey...I had an LLC for and called "Everything Marine"....consulting, delivery, teaching, mechanical, installs...etc....

I gave then many chances at $12.50 an hour to pick my brain....wasn't till Marine Max started hurting in 2003 that they started to value my real worth.

At that point I said see ya and went to work in the assistance towing, comnercial, and salvage business.

BandB · Oct 21, 2018

FoxtrotCharlie said:
"Till a few years later and I demanded $125 an hour consulting fee instead of my $12.50 an hour captains pay. Boy we're they surprised... "

Ha, back in Jan 1984 there was a hard freeze in Dallas where we were living. Could not find a plumber anywhere - all were booked. So I took off work, put on some old green coveralls and climbed under our old house to survey the muddy damage - went to a plumbing supply house and was waiting in line when a panicked,dazed guy came up to me and asked "we've been without water for two days -can you come out to our house now? what's your fee? When I realized he thought I was a plumber I said 'my usual fee is $175/hr' - he said 'for a damn plumber???' - I replied, no, for a Merger and Acquisition Specialist He considered it for a moment

I was with my father in a similar situation when I was young. He owned an accounting firm and we went out with my cousin along as well to cut down some trees for our retired minister. We thought small trees in front yard but it was huge trees in back yard. As we're nearly finished a neighbor walks up and asks my father what his rates are. He said $150 an hour. The guy said "150 and hour to cut trees". My father said "I don't normally cut trees." The other guy said, "I can see why at those rates" and walked away still not understanding.

BandB · Oct 21, 2018

I have many friends who are freelance captains, yacht managers and others in the industry. I've found almost all undercharge for some of their work and don't maximize income. They charge no extra for a 16 hour day or they charge the same hourly rate as checking on the boat when they're doing mechanical work.

The Marine Max's of the world have no grasp of building talent. A few larger shipyards I know do understand. In any business, I feel you build a team by hiring the best and smartest for entry level positions and developing and training them. Then retain them so you're not training them for others. There are many young men and women showing an interest in mechanical, electrical and even fiberglass work. Find the best, bring them in at the lowest positions and year by year watch them rise. I think of young men like Oliver, who was doing complex work and even coming on here and advising others when he was 14 and he loved learning more and more. There are others out there like him and you hire them when they graduate from high school and five years later they'll be among your best and not long after that a department head. Send them to manufacturer's schools and other advanced training. If someone retires or leaves you for another reason and you don't have the replacement already in house then you're just not doing it right. Hire, train, promote. Simple. Actually "Hire, Train and Deploy" is a very popular model buzz term today in many industries.

I would rather have employees trained in my environment and methods too.

ancora · Oct 21, 2018

A big factor for the dearth of employees is the insurance company's hard attitude toward drug users. With the sophisticated drug testin' of today, it's "you use, you lose" even when not on the job.

BandB · Oct 21, 2018

ancora said:
A big factor for the dearth of employees is the insurance company's hard attitude toward drug users. With the sophisticated drug testin' of today, it's "you use, you lose" even when not on the job.

What insurance companies are you referring to in what industries? I haven't faced any interest or pressure from insurers.

O C Diver · Oct 21, 2018

BandB said:
I have many friends who are freelance captains, yacht managers and others in the industry. I've found almost all undercharge for some of their work and don't maximize income. They charge no extra for a 16 hour day or they charge the same hourly rate as checking on the boat when they're doing mechanical work.

The Marine Max's of the world have no grasp of building talent. A few larger shipyards I know do understand. In any business, I feel you build a team by hiring the best and smartest for entry level positions and developing and training them. Then retain them so you're not training them for others. There are many young men and women showing an interest in mechanical, electrical and even fiberglass work. Find the best, bring them in at the lowest positions and year by year watch them rise. I think of young men like Oliver, who was doing complex work and even coming on here and advising others when he was 14 and he loved learning more and more. There are others out there like him and you hire them when they graduate from high school and five years later they'll be among your best and not long after that a department head. Send them to manufacturer's schools and other advanced training. If someone retires or leaves you for another reason and you don't have the replacement already in house then you're just not doing it right. Hire, train, promote. Simple. Actually "Hire, Train and Deploy" is a very popular model buzz term today in many industries.

I would rather have employees trained in my environment and methods too.

The biggest problem with this model is how big a boatyard you have to be to make it work. With so many specialized trades (fiberglass, paint, plumbing, electrical, electronics, interior carpentry, engine repair, etc) it's difficult to have several employees in different stages of proficiency for each trade. Unfortunately, this business model doesn't lower the consumer's cost (economy of scale), it tends to drive it through the roof. Certainly there are some markets that can support this business model, but very few.

Ted

ancora · Oct 21, 2018

Mandatory drug testin' has affected the truckin' industry, maritime industry, transportation industry, et al. Now that random drug testin' is the norm, drug users are findin' themselves havin' to choose whether to stay clean or have a job.

psneeld · Oct 21, 2018

O C Diver said:
The biggest problem with this model is how big a boatyard you have to be to make it work. With so many specialized trades (fiberglass, paint, plumbing, electrical, electronics, interior carpentry, engine repair, etc) it's difficult to have several employees in different stages of proficiency for each trade. Unfortunately, this business model doesn't lower the consumer's cost (economy of scale), it tends to drive it through the roof. Certainly there are some markets that can support this business model, but very few.

Ted

Exactly Ted...that's why in areas where the talent pool is small, mobile or seasonal.....marine service tends to be awfu.....l not absolutely...but in comparison to many other business models.

BruceK · Oct 21, 2018

ancora said:
Mandatory drug testin' has affected the truckin' industry, maritime industry, transportation industry, et al. Now that random drug testin' is the norm, drug users are findin' themselves havin' to choose whether to stay clean or have a job.

Do you get tested? Results?

O C Diver · Oct 21, 2018

psneeld said:
Exactly Ted...that's why in areas where the talent pool is small, mobile or seasonal.....marine service tends to be awfu.....l not absolutely...but in comparison to many other business models.

I think you are mistaken. It's not the talent pool, it's a large enough customer base willing to pay well above industry average prices. One only has to look ar any real estate market that went from low to middle income and then became the land of the rich and famous. Martha's Vineyard is a good example. Have been going there for almost 60 years. Until the Clintons started vacationing there it was middle class. After it became the place to go, the trade pool changed with transplants who had the skill to build the multi million dollar Mcmansions. Think you could open a boatyard most anywhere, offer the trades $60+ per hour and have no shortage of qualified people willing to come work there.

Ted

AlaskaProf · Oct 22, 2018

Old joke:

Woman calls plumber because water is gushing under the kitchen sink. Technician does the simple reconnect in 15 minutes, bills her for $190.

She's outraged, sputters, "Why thats nearly $800 an hour! My husband is a neurosurgeon; he doesn't make that kind of money!"

Plumber days, "Yeah, I didn't make that kind of money when I was a neurosurgeon either."

BandB · Oct 22, 2018

ancora said:
Mandatory drug testin' has affected the truckin' industry, maritime industry, transportation industry, et al. Now that random drug testin' is the norm, drug users are findin' themselves havin' to choose whether to stay clean or have a job.

That has nothing to do with insurance companies though, it's DOT and to a lesser degree USCG. It also doesn't have to lead to termination. There are steps to return to the job so it's not a lifetime ban or even required termination.

It's very interesting to look at the list. It's marijuana, cocaine, opiates, amphetamines and methamphetamines, and PCP. Nothing else.

BandB · Oct 22, 2018

O C Diver said:
The biggest problem with this model is how big a boatyard you have to be to make it work. With so many specialized trades (fiberglass, paint, plumbing, electrical, electronics, interior carpentry, engine repair, etc) it's difficult to have several employees in different stages of proficiency for each trade. Unfortunately, this business model doesn't lower the consumer's cost (economy of scale), it tends to drive it through the roof. Certainly there are some markets that can support this business model, but very few.

Ted

Smaller yards have to do more cross-training and that's on experienced workers and those being developed. If they have two senior employees they can be training and develop one junior. That will actually lower costs as they'll have the junior doing less skilled work and not be paying the senior to do them. Then lower further in that when they need more skill, they will have developed it and won't have to go pay dearly to bring it in.

It's more difficult for some than others and in some locations. The biggest challenge I see is the seasonality of business in colder climates. That requires smart management with vacations during those times, with education and training in those times, and finding work to help fill those times. I've seen yards that solicited all the painting business they could for off season and every employee regardless of normal job, helped with the painting.

O C Diver · Oct 22, 2018

BandB said:
Smaller yards have to do more cross-training and that's on experienced workers and those being developed. If they have two senior employees they can be training and develop one junior. That will actually lower costs as they'll have the junior doing less skilled work and not be paying the senior to do them. Then lower further in that when they need more skill, they will have developed it and won't have to go pay dearly to bring it in.

While I agree with you that it's done, the quality of world suffers. Many of these jobs require a gift, dedication or enjoyment to the employee for them to excel. Painting is a good example. A top of the line spray painter has a gift for it, you can only teach so much. Now you can have that junior employee doing other paint related work such as sanding, but when the senior employee leaves, the junior employee still isn't a painter.

Ted

Is there a word that's the opposite of Kudos:

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