Magnum Inverter vs ?

twistedtree said:

Would you have a specific model number? I'd like to check it out as that's a feature I'm looking for.

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OK, found it. That's for pointing it out. It's the MSH-RE if anyone else is looking. It supports load assist. That's good. But unlike the other Magnum models, you can't stack them, so limited to 4kw and 120V only. Fine for lots of applications, but not what I need/want. Oh well.

Thanks for all the replies. Got a good handle on whats good out there.

Just a soon as I started this thread, I called Magnum and this time got connect to tech support. The guy answered fairly quick and was a wealth of knowledge and really helpful on inverters in general.

The Magnum Energy MS2812 seems like the best fit. A bit more than I need with my current (no pun) situation, but can grow as I add more battery capability, and want higher output.

And, yes, I want the charger as my Pronautic 12.50p is only 50a.

Guess I'll give them a try with the overwhelming support for them, but some of the others sounded pretty good too.

Thanks

I live abord and have mostly house sized appliances. I have a Magnum MS-PAE type and chose it at the time because it gave me 120/240 volts in one unit. It made combining it into my AC system easy without having special circuits for inverter power. Also up to 4 inverters can be ganged up to 16kw if you have the batteries to support it. All power runs thru the inverters that either passes thru to the AC panel and supplies necessary battery charging or switches to supplied AC inverter power without intervention or notice. The system will start a generator if the batteries get low, and shut down after charging. I haven't gone off the grid on my home dock yet but considering it.
The other advantage is never running a generator when the mains are running. A high amp alternator keeps the house banks up.
I have no problem getting Magnum on the phone. I think there is a commercial marine show going on now and that may be generating a lot of phone calls.

"Note also the OP was about plain inverters, not ones that incorporate a charger."

The question first is what use will the invereter have?

To run a microwave a 1500W $150 unit will do fine.

To run a big water maker, an air cond , different size and robustness is needed.

Seevee

I have a Magnum MS 2812 in a motorhome and had good response from Magnum when I emailed them.

FYI - One important caution I became aware of re: connecting / disconnecting batteries...

You need to connect Neg first and Pos last - disconnect opposite - Pos first - Neg last
This is opposite normal battery safe practices so could be a problem if not done properly. Magnum indicated that the inverter control can be damaged if not done correctly. Also my Op Manual didn't even contain the Caution but i found a later version online w/ the caution added.

I have made up caution labels (attached) to post in my battery compartment to remind me and any mechanics working on the MH.

Bacchus said:

Seevee

I have a Magnum MS 2812 in a motorhome and had good response from Magnum when I emailed them.

FYI - One important caution I became aware of re: connecting / disconnecting batteries...

You need to connect Neg first and Pos last - disconnect opposite - Pos first - Neg last
This is opposite normal battery safe practices so could be a problem if not done properly. Magnum indicated that the inverter control can be damaged if not done correctly. Also my Op Manual didn't even contain the Caution but i found a later version online w/ the caution added.

I have made up caution labels to post in my battery compartment to remind me and any mechanics working on the MH.

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I installed a battery switch between the inverter and the bank. One benefit is you turn it off before disconnecting and back on when done reconnecting and you don't have to worry about which goes first.

caltexflanc said:

I installed a battery switch between the inverter and the bank. One benefit is you turn it off before disconnecting and back on when done reconnecting and you don't have to worry about which goes first.

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Thats exactly my plan...
I have a spare on-off batty sw from the boat I plan on installing on the MH inverter Pos lead.
Prior to finding out the importance of which lead I was thinking about installing on the Neg side.

"I had a Victron on our previous boat and loved it. I especially liked the load assist, and the control panel that let me dial in the max amps from shore power. Private dock with only 15A power--no problem. Marina with old or weak circuit breakers--I could dial back to 25A (instead of 30), and not have to continually reset the pedestal breaker."

This load assist is a valuable feature.

It can help on a weak dock, it can also be used to assist a noisemaker,

which could be much smaller for the loads 90% of the time.

CMS said:

It means the unit is basically like a factory alternator that senses the voltage at the alternator itself, or charger in this case, end of the circuit. Because it has no remote sensing capability it can not account for the voltage drop in the wiring between the battery and the unit. Because it can't correct for the voltage drop in the wiring it begins limiting voltage too early (when it should still be in BULK) or more aptly put it starts the absorption cycle (constant voltage stage) before the batteries are physically at the target limiting voltage.

For those who desire fast charging in a short duration, most boat owners, & especially sailors, this limits the of energy that can be put back into the bank in a short duration charge. With LiFePO4 batteries accurate voltage sensing is even more critical.

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CMS
Our boat has 2 Magnum BMKs. One attached to the house and the other to the start battery bank. Are the BMKs considered remote sensing devices?

john61ct said:

In this scenario, Xantrex CS just says buy a new one.

Authorized repair shops can't get parts from corporate, if you really push and get lucky with a nice tech, maybe they try and call around, see if they can find a for-parts unit to cannibalize.

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That was my experience with Xantex as well. Their "authorized repair shop" could not get repair parts or even a schematic for one of their battery chargers.

I would suggest checking into service options before selecting a brand. Or just figure it's a throw away.

aboatman said:

That was my experience with Xantex as well. Their "authorized repair shop" could not get repair parts or even a schematic for one of their battery chargers.

I would suggest checking into service options before selecting a brand. Or just figure it's a throw away.

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I look at an inverter as a throw away item.

They are heavy, making them difficult and expensive to ship off for repair.
The downtime just to get one repaired would be unacceptable

It’s just easier to fedex a new one, same model, drop it in, and go about life.

That said I have yet to experience a failure on my Xantex SW3000, or any of the other Xantrex units I have owned over the past two decades.

I have a Magnum 3112 and it has worked great.
It is modified sine wave and i would recommend getting sine wave if purchasing an inverter/charger.

Magnum customer service has been good the one time I needed them. The problem turned out to be a faulty switch in front of the inverter. The best thing (and the main point of this post) was they led me to these guys, who were GREAT!
Most helpful on the phone, parts in stock, knowledgeable and everything you would want to know about an inverter.

Tennessee-Inverter Service Center 615-285-0611 (also Marysville Marine Distributors) are good guys. Jordan, Randy or T.J.

ksanders said:

I look at an inverter as a throw away item.

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For your property that's fine.

I prefer to use a vendor that doesn't display that attitude about their product line.

The newer lower-end models have shown less reliability than the older big ones.

JDCAVE said:

From this site:

4000W 24VDC Pure Sine Hybrid Inverter Charger MSH Series | Magnum Dimensions

“Hybrid technology: Most inverters only use one source of energy to power loads, either from incoming AC power – shore or AC generator – or from the batteries. The MSH-M Series combines the energy from both sources to power loads. This allows the inverter to recharge the batteries when there is surplus power or deliver more power to the loads if they require more than the AC input can supply by itself.”

Jim

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That is what the Victron units can do with the ESS set up loaded

aka PowerAssist feature, Victron had it first

Magnum made and supported in USA tilts the deck in their favor IMO, regardless of who had what features first.

Irrelevant to me.

But Magnum inverters are top notch.

With the more complex stuff their newer gear has been shaking the bugs out.

Victron and MasterWorks are great too.

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_1948973

Personally I don't like Magnum inverters. They are line frequency switchers, so they weigh a ton, the the 60 cycle hum from some of them can wake the dead. Their controls are very pedestrian. Their coulomb counting state of charge circuit forgets to include its own current, though it is significant. Their idle current draw would power a small village. All in all, about a decade or two behind Victron or Mastervolt, and even behind some of Xantrex products.

DDW
Post #19 may be worth a re-read. Then a visit to his website.

ksanders said:

I look at an inverter as a throw away item.

They are heavy, making them difficult and expensive to ship off for repair.
The downtime just to get one repaired would be unacceptable

It’s just easier to fedex a new one, same model, drop it in, and go about life.

That said I have yet to experience a failure on my Xantex SW3000, or any of the other Xantrex units I have owned over the past two decades.

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I agree, they are mostly throw away items and they do fail.
The High Frequency inverter runs on the ragged edge constantly, its surge rating is only for a microsecond then it shuts down or blows up. I have been through several. Mosfets have a lifespan. They are like a high performance engine running at high revs.

After fixing my 3000 watt high frequency inverter for the third time, I found out about low frequency inverters. They have a big heavy copper transformer. Their surge power is about 10 seconds, and they have much simpler control circuits. My next inverter may be a low frequency inverter due to the better basic design.

So you have a 3000 watt low frequency inverter and it may have a surge capacity of 6000 - 12,000 watts for up to 10 seconds. Enough surge capacity headroom that the thing won't be overstressed so much starting heavier loads.

Of course the high frequency inverter is cheap to manufacture. And most people don't know any better.

DDW said:

Personally I don't like Magnum inverters. They are line frequency switchers, so they weigh a ton, the the 60 cycle hum from some of them can wake the dead. Their controls are very pedestrian. Their coulomb counting state of charge circuit forgets to include its own current, though it is significant. Their idle current draw would power a small village. All in all, about a decade or two behind Victron or Mastervolt, and even behind some of Xantrex products.

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Yes, my 4024 was somewhat heavy, but still easily wall mountable. Everything else in your post is completely wrong, at least as it applies to that model, which I have extensive direct experience and use from as a full time cruiser and liveaboard that spent months on moorings or anchor.

sdowney717 said:

I agree, they are mostly throw away items and they do fail.
The High Frequency inverter runs on the ragged edge constantly, its surge rating is only for a microsecond then it shuts down or blows up. I have been through several. Mosfets have a lifespan. They are like a high performance engine running at high revs.

After fixing my 3000 watt high frequency inverter for the third time, I found out about low frequency inverters. They have a big heavy copper transformer. Their surge power is about 10 seconds, and they have much simpler control circuits. My next inverter may be a low frequency inverter due to the better basic design.

So you have a 3000 watt low frequency inverter and it may have a surge capacity of 6000 - 12,000 watts for up to 10 seconds. Enough surge capacity headroom that the thing won't be overstressed so much starting heavier loads.

Of course the high frequency inverter is cheap to manufacture. And most people don't know any better.

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There is a lot of generalization in that. Not necessarily wrong, but misleading in many ways. I'd suggest a careful look at the spec sheets for any models you are considering to see what the surge specs are, both how much and how long. And I'd suggest researching each brand's reliability rather than judging based solely on the switching frequency.

caltexflanc said:

Yes, my 4024 was somewhat heavy, but still easily wall mountable. Everything else in your post is completely wrong, at least as it applies to that model, which I have extensive direct experience and use from as a full time cruiser and liveaboard that spent months on moorings or anchor.

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I too have seen a lot of variation is the 60hz hum from inverters. My Trace SW4024 was the worst, but wouldn't wake the dead. Then a Schneider Connext SW6048 which was a lot quieter. Then a Schneider Connext SW6848 to replace the blown 6048, and it is much quieter again. I think it's all about how well potted everything is to reduce rattling and vibration. Some once again, it's more inverter specific than switching frequency specific.

I have a Magnum installed in my camper. You cannot sleep in there with it on. That's just one model, but I've listened to a couple of others and they are similar. Tech support said "yeah, they do that". The weight is a consequence of the 60 cycle operation, which requires big transformers. And the state of charge counter draws about 80 ma by measurement, 60 AH/month not accounted for (tech support says, "yeah, that's the way it is"). Their remote control has very few settings and features compared to Mastervolt or Victron. The transfer relay is rated at 2/3 of the built in circuit breaker rating. Those are observable facts.

Now I've had issues with Xantrex equipment too, the Prosine 2000 that I had failed three times and had some of the same power consumption issues. The Freedom was reliable, but not very efficient and very, very heavy.

I have 6 Mastervolt products on the sailboat, a 100/24 charger, 2500W inverter, 3 DC-DC 24-12 converters, and the state-of-charge controller. In 10 years of heavy use, one DC-DC converter has failed (a mechanical failure of the output terminal), the others continue flawlessly. The inverter, rather than drawing 40 watts idling draws 6. It is silent until a large load it put on it, then it turns on a quiet fan that runs intermittently.

The more recent Victron equipment is high frequency switching. There will be no inherent reliability difference between low and high frequency switching for properly designed equipment. While much is dependent on quality of design and manufacture, it is very rare to get a 60 cycle hum from a high speed switcher....

I respect MaineSail's opinions, but I do not agree with him in this instance. I'm about to install an inverter in the trawler, and I will try a Victron.

I guess it all depends on what you have and how you set it up.

I have the Magnum Energy MS2812 pure sine wave inverter charger. It's mounted on the wall in the engine room. The only time I hear it is when the fan goes to high speed. The weight certainly isn't an issue. It's connected to an 900 AH battery bank, so whatever it's standby consumption may be, isn't an issue.

What is important is that it works flawlessly, switches between inverter and shore power seamlessly, and was easy to install and program. Best inverter I've owned. Haven't read anything in this thread that makes me feel I'm missing some important feature.

Ted

As the OP, after researching and a lot of shopping I put in the Magnum MS2812.
It was largely because of the reputation and reviews and felt it was a reliable unit.

That was back in March and has worked flawlessly ever since and ZERO noticeable noise. Support has been good, and only needed for programing it.
I hired a top notch ABYC electrician to install it and was fairly simple and worked well. We also installed a switch to turn it off.

Overall, for the short time I've had it, very happy.

O C Diver said:

I guess it all depends on what you have and how you set it up.

I have the Magnum Energy MS2812 pure sine wave inverter charger. It's mounted on the wall in the engine room. The only time I hear it is when the fan goes to high speed. The weight certainly isn't an issue. It's connected to an 900 AH battery bank, so whatever it's standby consumption may be, isn't an issue.

What is important is that it works flawlessly, switches between inverter and shore power seamlessly, and was easy to install and program. Best inverter I've owned. Haven't read anything in this thread that makes me feel I'm missing some important feature.

Ted

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I have the same unit and have had the same experience. The only noise comes from the fan and the performance has been excellent.