Removing transmission

Well, as some of you might remember, the dipstick fell into my transmission and retrieving it was not a success. I am not ready to remove the transmission to resolve this issue. Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

(Engine FL 120; tranny Paragon)

Ease depends on access.

Basic steps:

Disconnect prop shaft and slide back at least a few inches.

If rear mounts are on tranny, set up hoist to lift rear of engine.

Unbolt mounts while hoist takes the load (est 700-1000lb).

Disconnect hoses and hardware in the way.

Remove bolts holding trans plate to flywheel housing.

Wiggle tranny off, sometimes takes persuasion. Needs to slide back a few inches for input shaft to clear drive plate.

Reverse to install. Check drive plate condition carefully, it is a wear item and easy to replace at this point.

When done, check and adjust engine to prop shaft alignment.

These are the very basic steps, each install is different.

Good luck to you! Every time I try a biggie like this, something goes wrong.

If I had to face a project like this, I’d most likely hire a pro. I could do it, but it would probably cost me more and for sure I’d screw something up in the process. Then getting a pro to correct my mistake would cost even more.
Best of luck either way.

No don't be afraid, it ain't that difficult. Just be slow and methodical but do be aware that there's usually a bolt on the underside of the gearbox, some people have been known to overlook it and try and chisel the gearbox apart ( I've fixed 3 where a butcher made a mess).
I would highly recommend fitting a new 'heavy duty' clutch plate, be sure to check its a heavy duty model, don't get fobbed off with old stock, while you have easy access.
You will benefit in the long run.

Taking the tranny off isnt much more difficult thsn replacing a starter motor....a few more bolts to undo, a couple hoses instead of cables and undoing the shift cable....

The hardest part is figuring out how to hoist, jack or lift it out.

I don’t know what the sump is like on that transmission, it might be possible to leave it where it’s at and get a new dipstick.

Pros, I don't think so

So Far I have tried several so called "pros" in my area. I haven't found any that know any more than I do . And I don't know all that much, but they charge a whole lot more than I do.

I have done some sneaky things with a small cylindrical magnet ziptied to an aluminum welding rod. Very bendable, can sneak into tricky places. Can bend rod as needed.

Assuming the stick is steel, check the remnant.

You can offer a tech $100 to try, and $500 if he gets it. A little incentive works wonders. Just make sure you keep the remnant with you privately so you can match it up should he find it. Keeps them honest!!

If you are bouncing through the chop, and dip stick falls against a gear, the gear will start chewing it away creating small metal particles. Small metal particles may either be caught by internal magnet or be circulated into bearings, ruining the bearings.

In other words, the dip stick has to come out. Pay me now or pay me later.

Buy a WiFi endoscope ($36 Amazon) Drain the transmission. If your lucky you can find the dipstick. Use the hook or magnet to retrieve. Worth a try.

Thanks for the advice. I am not afraid to tackle new projects and this doesn't seem to be over complicated. I just need to know what I need to know beforehand. I was at the boat last weekend and started working on it. So far I disconnected the shaft and pulled it back a few inches. The bolts came loose easily so that was good. I then checked to see if all the bolts holding the transmission would come loose without a fight and all is good. Didn't go any further for now.

A couple of questions. The transmission is in 2 parts. The rear part must be what is called the gearbox right? Should I remove that first or should I leave it attached to the transmission? Would make things a lot easier if I could remove it first.

Second question: any idea how heavy is the transmission?

Last question: when I remove the last bolt from the transmission, do I need to have some kind of support system to prevent it from falling?

If you don't already have a stud and nut on each side, suggest putting in a short piece of threaded rod into one bolt hole on each side to aid sliding the transmission back. Would assume transmission weight at least 150-200lbs.


Ken

I also put bolts on each side as handles. I also put wood blocks under the trans to support it as it slides back. I lifted it up about a foot myself. It weights under 100. Two can lift it easily. I had it rebuilt for 2500 including new damper plate and cooler.

Fotoman said:

when I remove the last bolt from the transmission, do I need to have some kind of support system to prevent it from falling?

Click to expand...

Replace 2 of the hex head bolts with 3 1/2" studs. You can can pull it straight back without destroying the damper plate. (Although I would replace the damper plate as routine maintenance.) The studs make it reinstallation easier as the input spline will line up the the damper plate.

Amazon has small bore scopes that have an attachable magnetic tip. Drain the fluid then go looking. Once you see it go after it with the magnetic tip. If you do end up having to remove the gear box. Look at unistrut or superstrut. They can hold a good amount of weight. Just make sure you know how much it weighs then look at the specs for the span vs weight. I moved a 800lb zf box back with 2 pieces stacked. On a 34" span iirc.

Before you lift it out, rotate it 180 degrees and shake it!

Did you talk to any paragon rebuilders about the possibility of just leaving it alone. I think Great Lakes transmission could help you out with a answer. Maybe place a large magnet on the bottom of the transmission to help hold it down on the bottom.

Jim Clynes said:

Did you talk to any paragon rebuilders about the possibility of just leaving it alone. I think Great Lakes transmission could help you out with a answer. Maybe place a large magnet on the bottom of the transmission to help hold it down on the bottom.

Click to expand...

Federal Marine is a Paragon expert in Chicago.

Not sure on the design of your dip stick but the following might help.

Back in 2014 I had problems removing my dip stick from my 72C (1018)Velvet Drive transmission. It's a T-handle style dip stick that includes a top washer, a rubber bushing and a washer-nut to squeeze the bushing tight against the dipstick hole (tube) that is part of the casing assembly.

My dip stick was most likely original and the rubber bushing was swollen enough that it tended to stick and was difficult to pull. One day while I was attempting to pull the dip stick while unscrewing the T-handle, I had an "Oh-**** moment". The threaded washer-nut fell into the bottom of the transmission case. After pondering my options, I used a telescopic magnet (approximately 2 ft flexible wand) to retrieve the washer-nut. Worked like a charm and didn't have to pull the tranny...

Needless to say that I bought a new dipstick and peened over the bottom few threads as a nut stop. With the new rubber bushing, it now drops right in and I won't worry about losing the washer-nut.

Greetings,
Welcome aboard eh?

Can’t you remove that top section and fish it out? Or as others said, then rotate the gear until upside down and let it fall out?

I've had mine out twice and apart once. The rear section is the reduction gear and shares oil with the tranny If you separate it, you'll have a mess. If you remove the top cover, all you really see is the reverse piston and the single reversing band. If I recall correctly, there is a small opening on one side into the oil reservoir on the bottom, but not very useful. Most of the removal advice here is good (the studs, the removal, etc.). I drilled a 5/8" hole in two of the overhead cabin purlins (the floor joists for the salon). Then I put a threaded rod through both and nutted the ends to keep it from moving. I used a Harbor Freight strap winch to support the trans. Put a bolt in each side threaded hole and stretch a chain between them. You can use the strap winch to lift or support very accurately. Once the tranny is loose of the flywheel, you can lift it up and lower it on a piece of plywood between the bunks. I cut a hatch opening through the aft bulkhead behind the removable stairs. After that it was simple to slide the trans to the stair area and relocate the strap winch across the companionway. I then lifted the trans into the salon and lowered it onto a piece of carpet and dragged it to the sliding door. A 2 X 4 through the chain allows you to lift it out the sliding door and onto the dock.

I can't stress enough the help a frame and come-along, chain fall, or simple block and tackle will be. The tranny might 'only' weigh a 100 lbs. or so but it or you will be in a cramped, awkward position.
Your back will thank you.....
Plus it'll practically fall out. Getting it back in and the shaft aligned with the splines on the damper will teach you a whole new language. With only 2 hands and no help it's a good way to get hurt.
Or get a couple yard monkeys to yank it out. I say that with all respect to younger, healthier, stronger boat shop employees.

Buy a new dipstick and cross your fingers, most likely it will just lie along the bottom.

project preparation creep...


Be sure the deck is well supported under the crane legs, if you choose this route.


If equipped with wheels, there's a lot of force concentration.


I hate when the success of one job turns into the next job...

Fotoman said:

Well, as some of you might remember, the dipstick fell into my transmission and retrieving it was not a success. I am not ready to remove the transmission to resolve this issue. Any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated.

(Engine FL 120; tranny Paragon)

Click to expand...

Just a thought... have you tried a specialty magnet? You might need to mfg [Rube Goldberg] your own. Depending on access hole/location that might save you a bunch of hassle. Good luck.

I was able to remove the transmission yesterday. I started with the reduction box. Super easy. 6 bolts and the thing is not very heavy (maybe 30 lbs). For the transmission, I followed some of the advice I got here. I bought a threaded rod and cut 2 pieces of about 4 inches and put them in the bolts holes (the side ones). I also placed some pieces of 2x4 snug under the transmission to support the weight. Once all the bolts were removed, I simply slid it backwards slowly. The hard part was getting it out of the boat by myself. Small steps, a bit of planning and a lot of force was all it took!

Ok, so now the thing is in my garage and I am debating whether I should attempt to open it myself or bring it to a transmission guy. Looks like I could open it from the front or the rear. On the front side, there are two sets of bolts. Just want to make sure the if I decide to open it I choose the right route and don't get myself into too much trouble. Any advice?

11 yrs. ago... what happened and what I did:


1977 port-side BW Velvet Drive trany had water leak into fluid. Removed trany and dropped off at trany shop I've been using for decades. No problem since! Cheap at 1/2 the price of possiably making an uninformed DIY mistake - IMO.

You will need a complete gasket set, front and rear seals. If you do take it apart, might be a good idea to replace the clutch plates. I suspect most transmission shops will quote you a rebuild.