How do you have your dock lines setup?

nomadwilly wrote:
....*why would you want eyes longer than long enough to get the line around the ends of a large cleat?

Click to expand...

*Eric--- In places like the east coast (south of places like Maine and the Canadian maritimes) their tidal ranges are minimal.* So a lot of docks aren't floating, they're fixed.* And even if they are floating, the don't go up and down*very far so there is no need to use the towering pilings that are used in more northern waters where tidal ranges can exceed 20 feet.* So a piling is a more viable thing to tie up to back there than it is out here and the tops of the pilings aren't way up in the air like they are here.* Hence the large loops which can be placed or thown over the top of a piling as Charles describes.* Trying to get the bitter end of a line around a piling from a boat would be a real pain.

So the big loop makes all kinds of*sense back there but would be useless here with our very tall pilings, floating docks and*almost universal use*of bullrails.

Willy wrote:
*Another reason I carry an axe on board.

Click to expand...

In Canada isn't an ax required on board? and a bucket of sand.

SD

Well.......sometimes I'm glad when I ask a question. I understand much more about the east coast now. Here is a picture of the public floats in Prince Rupert BC (where we will be rather soon) and It would be a challenge indeed to throw a loop on like up and over a piling at low water.

Great shot, Eric, and a very good illustration of tidal ranges from here on up north. And one can perhaps imagine with the volume of water illustrated by the exposed, barnacled*length of Eric's pilings flowing in and out four times a day, what the currents can be like, particularly in the more restricted channels and passes.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 4th of January 2012 07:09:33 PM

Eric's photo also demonstrates the value of the color yellow.*

1 We would never tie to a piling. To much tidal range, and the likelihood of getting your line off without major hassles is low, you could easily get hung up, your line would be covered in creosote in no time, and your whole boat would be filthy instantly, with no hope of ever being clean again.

2 If I ever have to tie to a log boom, the scotchman is the only fender I would use. I would weight it if possible, but generally they stay put. Log dogs are useful for more than threatening your friends with wooden boats.

3 Never, never, did I say Never? give control to some idiot on the dock. A firm rule on our boat, well understood by the first mate, is that this vessel weighs 44,000 lbs. A person trying to move it or slow it, using only the weight of his own body and my line is going to fail, with consequences to himself or to my gelcoat. Neither is permitted to occur, as no line gets passed ashore until the boat is in position. If the skipper isn't capable of getting the boat into the right position, he/she shouldn't be at the helm.

4 I didn't know I was mixed up. Although I confess I looked at the other KO's posts for a while to see if his last name would ever get spelled correctly.

nomadwilly wrote:
Well.......sometimes I'm glad when I ask a question. I understand much more about the east coast now. Here is a picture of the public floats in Prince Rupert BC (where we will be rather soon) and It would be a challenge indeed to throw a loop on like up and over a piling at low water.

Click to expand...

*If you cruise from Main to Florida every year, you can encounter 20 foot tides in Maine to almost nothing behind Cape Hatteras to back to 8 feet in Savannah, Ga back to near nothing in much of the Florida intracoastal.

So flexibility is important here...that's why I almost could care less about any eyes in my lines.* I happy that I* feel good about being able to pull into most places and with a little*planning ahead, know that one line will hold me in place till I figure out what I really want to do and get the other lines*on (as long as conditions are reasonable).

Great photo, Eric.

A wise sailor should consider/evaluate other sailor's experiences and recommendations, but*he need to*place great weight on*his*own experiences.* I say: do what works for you.

I'm put off by persons who say "this is the way I do things, so you should do the same."* Well I'm sure they're trying to help, they may be unaware of their own ignorance.

psneeld wrote:

"So flexibility is important to me here" *Never done it before, so and so says it do'nt work, not a good yacht practice *ect ect. One must experiment or ones horizons will never expand. One will never learn and always be behind and ignorant. But one frequently gains knowledge w burnt fingers and falls now and then and there are bold ones that are labeled accident prone but the fact that they are usually smarter than the ones talking about how smart they are w their perfect record obtained by the one's that experiment in and out of trouble. I started boating when I built my first boat at 12 and started anchoring when I was 20 someth'in and never set my anchor. Set the anchor....that's stupid. If the wind or current comes along it will obviously set itself. I just put the anchor on the bottom and then some slack. Never had a problem but I did'nt anchor that often. But in my 70s I do give some credit to the assumed correct way of doing things but I'm ALWAYS suspect of whatever ways are presented to me and frequently test the established knowledge at hand. The stuff you really know is the stuff that you've proven to yourself.

Yes Marin, *You've seen that pic before but it does show our tidal range and I'm not even sure if it was low tide. Could'a dropped another foot or so. There are many places w considerable current up here but tidal current in your neck of the woods my be just as influential as up here. In fact the San Juan Islands may have more troublesome currents than SEA. Currents in the vicinity of Friday Harbor can make a trawlerman wish he had a planing hull from time to time.

Eric

Charles,*I don't count on anyone to take the lines.**I approach the dock, step off, and*tie the lines to the dock's*cleats or rings.* (Floating docks*but no bull rails here.)

Willy wrote:
There are times in these waters when my 8.5 knot boat ( max ) gets pushed backwards. Them times you thought you might beat the tide only to find ya blew it and are stuck with no place to go but ever so slowly backwards.

Click to expand...

*On occasion in my sailboat days,*we'd set out an anchor and pull ahead of the fleet.

Charles is correct in his assesment of docking. The fact that there is a large tidal range on the west coast is irrelevant. The floating docks with the bull rails is the issue. To moor to these (Correctly tying the boat to the dock) is just using a "two part line". the eye is passed through the bull rail back to the vessel and adjusted as necessary aboard the boat. Not only does the 2 part line reduce chafe, it almost doubles the strength of the line.
Like many other people on this forum, I have work and played in many different parts country with varying tidal ranges/currents/docks and what works,works. A walk down a typical marina set up will reveal much more than who has the shiniest boat and the latest electronic widgets.

Savy marina operators don't want your mooring lines coiled or flemished on their wood docks because they cause rot.

Just two bits.......

I have never ever tied to a fixed piling.

Will......how far can you pee?

Eric

The way I see it...those who have never done a lot of things with a boat maybe shouldn't be so adamant what may or may not be correct.

I've boated from Alaska to Key West and understand 30 foot tides to wind tides (if you don't know what wind tide is...maybe you should read more and post less).

There are places on the east Coast with 20+ foot tides and you tie to a stone wharf or piling...because there aint no floating dock.

If you ever need to tie to a fixed object in 20 foot tides...you better be comfortable in doing it or move on.

Arguing on whether it should or shouldn't be done is rediculous...there are ways of getting a line off a high object like using a toggle/fid and a recovery tag line...to say it's dangerous is a function of IF it can hang up or not...you do have to be smarter than the line.

Sorry Scott......Did'nt mean to offend anyone or imply tying to piles was stupid. As you can see 100' mooring lines would not even be enough to use up here. If I was to tie to a pile I'd need more experience and knowledge than I possess now. I just would'nt know what to do. We here in the PNW do'nt have the need to tie to piles........and in my case just do'nt know anything about it. I knew there was something to learn here so I'm still glad I asked about it.

Eric

We have two sets of bumpers and lines.*6 round bumpers and pre cut to length lines tied/left on the dock and 2 round, 8 cylinder bumpers and lines on the boat which are let down/secured/set before we enter the marina.**So what ever the situation there is no need to switching things around.* A lot depends on the pucker factor, dock/slip/wind/current, how the actual docking is done/goes and many times has not gone as planned.* So I plan/set for a pucker factor of 10.*I can control/move the bow and/or stern so if somebody wants to haul one end in, then I will take care of the other.
*

We have bull rails on our dock.* However, I installed 6 cleats which made securing lines easier.* The lines and bumpers left/tied on the dock are tied to the bull rail and the cleats are for the additional line left on the boat.* We also have two 12 ft long poles that we have used instead of lines to push/pull the boat to/from the dock.

nomadwilly wrote:
In fact the San Juan Islands may have more troublesome currents than SEA. Currents in the vicinity of Friday Harbor can make a trawlerman wish he had a planing hull from time to time.

Click to expand...

You got that right.* But I would have thought the currents in SE Alaska could get as strong as down here.* Of course the really big-time tidal currents are between Vancouver Island and the mainland between Campbell River and Cape Caution.* Huge volumes of water flowing in and out through very narrow passages.

For people unfamiliar with this area, here are some shots from the web of some of our more notorious rapids, although there are many other similar but less dramatic ones.* All these rapids do this four times a day, the only difference being every other time they are going the other way.* Sometimes slack water is only 15 minutes long.

All of these passes are traversed by everything from sailboats to cruisers like ours*to tugs and barges.* You just have to do your current calculations accurately and time your arrival correctly.

And no, the second shot is not on a river.* It is, in fact, the same rapids as the next two photos.*

And everyone here from the PNW should know the last photo because I daresay every one of us has been through it at least once and probably knows this view by heart.* It's Dodd Narrows just south of Nanaimo.



*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 5th of January 2012 06:57:35 PM

this is so interesting.*

A friend sold his 50+ footer and gave us his heavy docklines which chain to the cleats.* We leave them at our home slip, one at each corner.* in addition we have two spring lines on the side we tie close to (if that makes sense, we are up against the dock on one side for boarding and have a couple feet on the other side).* We are on floating docks.* we have tried various configurations of lines in our slip and this works fine, even in storms.* More spring lines didn't seem to get us anything.*

When we are traveling, we have a plethora of dock lines to choose from in various lengths.* Typically, coming in to an unfamiliar slip I will have bow and stern lines ready on both sides and I bring them to the respecitve midships gate and wrap them loosely once on the cleat so they don't accidentially slip into the water and wrap a prop.* Again

Once I can figure out which side of the boat I am going to be able to get to the dock from first (sometimes don't know until the last minute) I get both bow and stern lines in hand and get ready to step onto the dock (no heroic leaps for me).* Typically I will secure the stern line first but sometimes my husband is already down from the flybridge at this point, in which case he take the stern and I the bow.* Once we have one side secured we futz with the other and last we play around with the springs to see what works in the conditions in that slip (current, wind).* We usually end up with at least two springs.*

It is always an adventure and a learning experience.* All docks in this area are floating.* I cannot imagine having to allow for tidal fluctuation. Though someday I hope to do the loop so I will have to learn.

All this dock line talk assumes the fenders were deployed prior to entering the slip.* Docking under a covered slip is a whole new challenge for us that we first encountered last summer and fenders hanging along your hull do not do squat to keep our wooden hand rail off the roof supports.* We noticed all the locals have the big round beach ball fenders permanently in their slips and as we plan to spend five months in the delta this summer I will invest in some of those for my slip.* I think it will be well worth the reduction in*pucker factor!!*

Marin wrote:nomadwilly wrote:
In fact the San Juan Islands may have more troublesome currents than SEA. Currents in the vicinity of Friday Harbor can make a trawlerman wish he had a planing hull from time to time.

Click to expand...

You got that right.* But I would have thought the currents in SE Alaska could get as strong as down here.* Of course the really big-time tidal currents are between Vancouver Island and the mainland between Campbell River and Cape Caution.* Huge volumes of water flowing in and out through very narrow passages.

For people unfamiliar with this area, here are some shots from the web of some of our more notorious rapids, although there are many other similar but less dramatic ones.* All these rapids do this four times a day, the only difference being every other time they are going the other way.* Sometimes slack water is only 15 minutes long.

All of these passes are traversed by everything from sailboats to cruisers like ours*to tugs and barges.* You just have to do your current calculations accurately and time your arrival correctly.

And no, the second shot is not on a river.* It is, in fact, the same rapids as the next two photos.*

And everyone here from the PNW should know the last photo because I daresay every one of us has been through it at least once and probably knows this view by heart.* It's Dodd Narrows just south of Nanaimo.



*



-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 5th of January 2012 06:57:35 PM

*Wow...and I thought they were pictures of coastal Maine

psneeld wrote:*Wow...and I thought they were pictures of coastal Maine

Click to expand...

*Yeah, you guys have tidal ranges that make it look like we don't have any.* We drove along a bit of the Bay of Fundy on our trip to PEI the other year, and while we were not in the vicinity long enough to observe the tidal action there I know it can get up to 50' or so on occasion.

The tides were very impressive at PEI, too, with high tide lapping the lawn in front of our cottage and low tide barely visible way*out*beyond the*bare,*red-sand seabed.


-- Edited by Marin on Friday 6th of January 2012 03:29:22 PM

Walt you actually read ALL the posts. Perhaps you should volunteer to help moderate the forum.*

Marin, there are some strong currents in places. Peril Strait near Sitka comes to mind and Ford's Terror down Endicott Arm is a wild water dogleg very narrow passage to the inside of the inlet. Been there at slack and I'm quite sure the max velocity is considerably more than even Naquackto Rapids near the top of Queen Charlotte Strait (east side). Ford's Terror is known as the "Washing Machine". But there are considerably fewer rapids in SEA than in Western Canada.*

Eric


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 6th of January 2012 04:44:03 PM

nomadwilly wrote:
Walt you actually read ALL the posts. Perhaps you should volunteer to help moderate the forum.*

Eric

Click to expand...

I was thinking he must be kidding.**I don't get on every day and will NEVER be able to catch up.

OY-Vey

Actually, I don't read all the posts. Only the ones I'm interested in or the people that I've come to know through this forum. So many of the posts are about old subjects and how many times can you read "See Spot Run" without throwing up?

For new members, it's great, but redundant as hell for those of us that have been here since 2007. :steaming: :frustrated:

Walt,

Sounds like you know what Spot looks like and are an expert at up-chucking. I've been think'in about going back to those old posts where every subject was fascinating new ground but we argued endlessly........and still do about some things. Look at Marin and Art lately. But look at all the new,good and interesting friends we have now. I miss many that are gone though. See you and Spot in the archives Walt.

Eric

Eric,

You mentioned adding a cleat to the center of the*aft cap rail to ease strees on the stern lines.*Makes good sense --*I'm considering the same for Northstar,*I just don't like the idea of messing up that*beautiful teak curve.

Richard,

Very true. I've got a 14" galvanized cleat thru the mail but hav'nt put it on yet. I want to use it for anchoring as well as mooring lines. Also want to use it for towing from the centerline of the boat. But you're right it may not look too yachty. I'm wondering how I'm going to tighten the nuts on the bolts too. Did you read that we're moving down to Wash soon?

Eric

Right now, I actually have 15 dock lines in use on my boat (not just aboard and ready to use - I mean my boat is tied to the dock with 14 different lines).
Bow - 2 port, 2 starbord
Midships - 2 port springs, 2 starboard springs, 1 starboard midship breast line
Aft - 1 port breast line, 1 starboard long spring, 2 starboard breast line, 2 crossed stern lines

I actually broke 1 stern line a few weeks ago (3/4" 3-strand).
This weekend it's been gusting to 40+ kts, and the temp is around 0' F (before wind chill)... uff.

In addition to these lines, I have duplicates for all listed above, as well as about another dozen spare lines of all kinds, as well as 2 spare 150' anchor rodes which I can use to kedge of or in case of a tow.
You can never have too many lines, in my opinion.

7tiger7 wrote:
Right now, I actually have 15 dock lines in use on my boat

Click to expand...

** I usually use up to*eight (four per side).* Believe I have only seven set presently.* Haven't yet gone to suspenders in addition to a belt to hold up pants.