Anchor rode/bridal/snubber?Proper placement?

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ben2go

ben2go

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Joined
May 14, 2012
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USA
Vessel Name
Shipoopi
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derilic sailboat
I've been researching boats and of course, terminology and pics have me confused, again. So let us go back to the basics before my head implodes from misinformation.



The line that runs between the forward (port and starboard) cleats, that attaches to the anchor chain, to take the load off the windlass. I know this as a snubber or snub line. Correct? Yes? No? Maybe? Shake the magic 8-ball?



The "snubber" where should it lay, or is there a preferred length? I ask this because I see pics where the subber is up close to the bow off the water and some where the snubber is well under water where it attaches to the chain. Most of these are not being pulled tight. Simply just hanging there like a willow in the wind.


A snub line is something I understand the reason for, to take strain off the windlass. Suspenders for the anchor line matey. In practice, I am unsure how it should be properly utilized. Would you please elaborate on your setups, past, present, and future?



Shall we rode? I have always known "the rode" to be the line that is attached to the anchor, the anchor rode. Is there another line on a boat that could be so affectionately named "The Rode"?



Onto the bridal. I know this to be the same as a subber, but used in the rear to tow a dink in the drink. I'm a poet and din't know it. Anyway, some use a block to allow the dink, and it's line, full swing. While others seem to connect the dink line to the bridal by way of a center loop tied in the bridal. I'm not sure of the terminology here or the proper use.



Thank you all for your patience and perseverance as we depart this runway out of my mind. :flowers:
 
A snubber is a line used to take the load off an all-chain rode. It is generally tied off at a samson post, bitt, or cleat near the bow. There are plastic or rubber snubber products that add stretch to a snubber line. This can quieten the chain noise and rope squeaks through the night...

A bridle is a loop of line that runs from a port cleat, and a starboard cleat and hooks to the anchor chain in the middle. The anchor chain hook should be fixed in the middle to prevent a sawing action if the boat wants to hunt or ride at anchor in a storm.

The rode is the line (or chain, cable, etc.) running from the boat to the anchor.
A combination chain & line gives you a lot more line to act as a shock absorber, relieving stress on the anchor and the mounting cleat. It has less of a catenary, (sag) and is easier to pull straight & taut. The chain nearest the anchor helps keep the line pull from pulling the anchor out of the bottom and require it to be reset.

An all chain rode means all chain and no line. The weight of the chain adds a lot of sag, so that pulling against the anchor chain has to lift it off the bottom. Any wind direction changes cause the boat to have to pull / drag the chain around, and lessens the effect on the anchor. You will almost never get the anchor chain taut enough to remove the catenary, unless you're retrieving the anchor.
Some boats use cable and chain, with stranded wire attached to heavy chain down near the anchor. Cable is lighter per foot for the same strength and can be spooled on the winch drum. The problem with cable is it tends to hum if you have any significant currents, and in a boat, the hum can fill the boat... Somewhat similar to a cable on a swing keel sailboat.

Snubbers and Bridles need to be protected from chafing where they go through chocks, especially in big storms. Some people use fire hose or garden hose, but that can keep the line from staying wet and dry line under strain can melt the fibers and give way fairly easily. So, wet is better since it lubricates and cools the fibers inside the line.
 
Stu

Good job, easy read.
 
stubones99 said:
A snubber is a line used to take the load off an all-chain rode. It is generally tied off at a samson post, bitt, or cleat near the bow. There are plastic or rubber snubber products that add stretch to a snubber line. This can quieten the chain noise and rope squeaks through the night...

A bridle is a loop of line that runs from a port cleat, and a starboard cleat and hooks to the anchor chain in the middle. The anchor chain hook should be fixed in the middle to prevent a sawing action if the boat wants to hunt or ride at anchor in a storm.

The rode is the line (or chain, cable, etc.) running from the boat to the anchor.
A combination chain & line gives you a lot more line to act as a shock absorber, relieving stress on the anchor and the mounting cleat. It has less of a catenary, (sag) and is easier to pull straight & taut. The chain nearest the anchor helps keep the line pull from pulling the anchor out of the bottom and require it to be reset.

An all chain rode means all chain and no line. The weight of the chain adds a lot of sag, so that pulling against the anchor chain has to lift it off the bottom. Any wind direction changes cause the boat to have to pull / drag the chain around, and lessens the effect on the anchor. You will almost never get the anchor chain taut enough to remove the catenary, unless you're retrieving the anchor.
Some boats use cable and chain, with stranded wire attached to heavy chain down near the anchor. Cable is lighter per foot for the same strength and can be spooled on the winch drum. The problem with cable is it tends to hum if you have any significant currents, and in a boat, the hum can fill the boat... Somewhat similar to a cable on a swing keel sailboat.

Snubbers and Bridles need to be protected from chafing where they go through chocks, especially in big storms. Some people use fire hose or garden hose, but that can keep the line from staying wet and dry line under strain can melt the fibers and give way fairly easily. So, wet is better since it lubricates and cools the fibers inside the line.
Click to expand...
:thumb:

That's more quality information than I was asking for. Extremely help post there. Thanks. Clears up a lot of discrepancies in my thinking plus some that would crop up I'm sure.
 
The length of my snubber is such so it attaches to the anchor rode at the water line. My bow is over 10' high so this lowers the angle of the anchor rode which is always a good thing.
 
Anchor snubber attachment point

Russell Clifton said:
The length of my snubber is such so it attaches to the anchor rode at the water line. My bow is over 10' high so this lowers the angle of the anchor rode which is always a good thing.
Click to expand...

That means that your boat doesn't pull the bow down when a wave moves it aft due to tension on the anchor line. The lower you can tie off the anchor line, the better you'll be, and you won't need as much rode since you won't have to factor in the distance from the pulpit to the waterline.
 
Some further points:

Snubbers are designed to take the load off of the windlass but also to dampen any jerking of the rode caused by waves. Snubbers used on mostly all rope rodes should be smaller than the rode to let it stretch and absorb jerks. If you have 1/2" rode, use a 3/8" snubber, particularly if arranged as a bridle. Also you want enough length to allow stretch, so what works for me is for the snubber to go down to the water line when taught.

Bridles are used to tie to the port and starboard cleats and the rode is in a v-pattern. But some boats, particularly those with a sampson post use a single snubber over the bow roller.

One final clarification: Snubbers don't lower the angle of the rode because of where they terminate. They add length or scope which decreases the angle.

David
 
Russell Clifton said:
The length of my snubber is such so it attaches to the anchor rode at the water line. My bow is over 10' high so this lowers the angle of the anchor rode which is always a good thing.
Click to expand...

I was pondering this the other day and I'm pretty sure it doesn't, because if the wind was strong enough the snubber would just continue the same angle as the rode.

Some boats have a beefy attachment point for a snubber just above the waterline on the bow which would reduce scope for sure. Does your boat have this?
 
djmarchand said:
One final clarification: Snubbers don't lower the angle of the rode because of where they terminate. They add length or scope which decreases the angle.
Click to expand...

When you calculate 5:1 or 7:1 scope, you start with the water depth and add in the height above the waterline to the pulpit or the anchor line attachment point.

If you tie off the snubber to the anchor eye at the waterline, centerline bow position, you don't have to add the height of the pulpit above the waterline. That was my point.

On the other hand, if you don't have an anchor eye at or just above the waterline, compute the rode length the normal way.
 
Thank you all for being helpful and sharing your knowledge.


Stu, I will look into the book you linked in your post. I have a PDF somewhere with nautical terminology but it is a copy from a publication from the 60's or 70's. I'm sure it is out of date and behind the times.
 
An interesting thing about a bridal is that they are almost disfunctional in light airs w a chain rode. The bridal is catenary dependent. Think about a bridal whereas the bridal and rode are vertical or nearly so. If it is the bridal won’t work at all. And in a 10mph breeze w a chain rode there’s not enough catenary to be seen. And for the bridal to work catenary needs to present at the bridal. And of course that’s always where there is the least catenary.
If the rode is horizontal maximum benefit will be realized. But of course that never happens.

But w a nylon line rode it needs to be almosr dead calm for the catenary to disapear. Almost any breeze at all will alow the bridal to work quite well. HaHa but you can’t attach a bridal to nylon line. Well one could attach jam chocks/cleats or tie clove hitches or ??? Anybody ever seen a bridal on a nylon line rode?
 
Eric

If you have a nylon rode why would you even want a bridal or snubber? That being said I would answer that I have never seen a bridal on a nylon rode.
 
BigFish,
I’d like a bridal because my little boat sails something terrible.
Never tried one but I thought two jam cleats could be rigged but they may fall off. But then one could fix up a clamp of sorts or tie on a bungi. Perhaps a jam cleat w the strength to handle anchoring loads would be hard to find? Most are plastic I think.


In Pender Harbour BC I anchored in close to many other boats. Most of them were bigger boats that appeared to have all chain. But most of them were sailing plenty themselves. That’s when my thoughts turned to the angle of the bridal.

How ya lik’in the hurrycane?
 
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Nomad Willy said:
BigFish,
I’d like a bridal because my little boat sails something terrible.
Never tried one but I thought two jam cleats could be rigged but they may fall off. But then one could fix up a clamp of sorts or tie on a bungi. Perhaps a jam cleat w the strength to handle anchoring loads would be hard to find? Most are plastic I think.
Click to expand...


BigFish is right, with a nylon rode the bridle or snubber are unnecessary. However, I understand the issue of sailing as I played around with an assymetric bridle on my last trip and it seemed to help. You could accomplish the same thing with nothing more than length of three strand. Use a rolling or icicle hitch on the anchor line to attach a piece of three strand. Take that line back to an offset bow or midship cleat to pull the anchor line to the side. Easy to do and you'd have your offset rode to help with sailing at anchor.
 
Eric

No problem with the hurricane as we are in the Miami area, no effect at all but the Panhandle took it on the chin.

Dave

I’ve done exactly what you suggest to position the boat to avoid the sun, easy to do using a spring cleat it also eliminated the sailing effect while at anchor.
 
It seems to me that a rope anchor line could be tied off to the forward cleat or what have you. Even though it will absorb some forces by stretching, I don't think I would want it pulling against a winch drum or windlass. Is this a false line of thinking?
 
ben2go said:
It seems to me that a rope anchor line could be tied off to the forward cleat or what have you. Even though it will absorb some forces by stretching, I don't think I would want it pulling against a winch drum or windlass. Is this a false line of thinking?
Click to expand...

That is correct, you never want the anchor shock loads pulling on the winch. On boats with winch drums, they often have a set of bitts or samson post that have a way of putting the chain around it and between a couple of pegs to cleat it off and remove the load from the winch drum.

Some boats have a chain lock that flips down to lock the chain, and can only be released when the chain is pulled back in.

Of course, you will have some load on the winch when retrieving the anchor but usually that's a gradual pull, not like the shock load generated by a storm or heavy waves against the boat.
 
Ahh, but what anchor to use? Two or one line snubber? Use a swivel, if yes what kind? What size and kind of chain, rope, snubber to chain attachment, wash the rode when retrieving and galvanized or stainless?

The list is quite long and and ever expanding.
 
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stubones99 said:
That is correct, you never want the anchor shock loads pulling on the winch. On boats with winch drums, they often have a set of bitts or samson post that have a way of putting the chain around it and between a couple of pegs to cleat it off and remove the load from the winch drum.

Some boats have a chain lock that flips down to lock the chain, and can only be released when the chain is pulled back in.

Of course, you will have some load on the winch when retrieving the anchor but usually that's a gradual pull, not like the shock load generated by a storm or heavy waves against the boat.
Click to expand...


:thumb:




sunchaser said:
Ahh, but what anchor to use? Two or one line snubber? Use a swivel, if yes what kind? What size and kind of chain, rope, snubber to chain attachment, wash the rode when retrieving and galvanized or stainless?

The list is quite long and and ever expanding.
Click to expand...


I was trying to avoid the anchor subject and the like. Ground tackle is a passionate subject around here. :hide:


I plan to use a 3lb mushroom on my 65' Hatty with a 2:1 scope on 3/16 poly line. :lol:
 
ben2go said:
:thumb:

I was trying to avoid the anchor subject and the like. Ground tackle is a passionate subject around here. :hide:


I plan to use a 3lb mushroom on my 65' Hatty with a 2:1 scope on 3/16 poly line. :lol:
Click to expand...

Parachute cord is cheaper than poly line :)
 
3 lb may be overkill for a 65 Hatt unless you have a lot of windage, 1 lb should be good for most situations.
 
ben2go said:
It seems to me that a rope anchor line could be tied off to the forward cleat or what have you. Even though it will absorb some forces by stretching, I don't think I would want it pulling against a winch drum or windlass. Is this a false line of thinking?
Click to expand...

The “don’t put your rode load on the windlass” is over played. And only a wimpy windlass would have trouble pulling a boat up to it’s anchor unless it was a strong breeze or some wind.
And loading the anchor cleat only applies the load to a very small area on the foredeck.
Using a reel winch has (by comparison) a really big foot print w 6-12 bolts through the deck. Don’t know for sure but I don’t think the fishermen use a chain stopper. And many of their cleats are on top of the winch.

However these small little winches most are buying I wouldn’t tie of on either. There’s the small footprint but the winch itself is on the light side of light and I’ll bet it warns about using the winch to tie the rode to in the manual.

So it’s over played IMO. Many boats are just fine tied off to/on the winch and many boats aren’t.
 
I've only anchored out when I was staying on the boat. With an all chain rode I made a snubber our of some light nylon line run through chucks on each side of the bow then to their own cleats.

On our other boat the rode is nylon line and the windlass has dogs to lock it down. The noise from the line through the bow rollers was annoying and I just put an old towel under it.
 
"The length of my snubber is such so it attaches to the anchor rode at the water line. My bow is over 10' high so this lowers the angle of the anchor rode which is always a good thing."

I am not sure that I quite understand this comment. If you have a stem eye then the scope ratio would be measured to the stem eye. If you are using a snubber connected to the chain and then brought up over the bow chock, the scope ratio is measured to the height of the bow chock above the water. Adding a snubber does not change the anchor scope required. With the snubber you essentially have a rope and chain rode with only about 10 feet of rope. If you are anchored in 20 feet of water with a 10 foot height to the bow chock. then even though you are using a snubber you still need 150 feet of total rode to maintain the 5:1 ratio. If the snubber goes to a stem eye down at the waterline, in 20 feet of water 100 feet of scope will give you 5:1 ratio.
 
Bridle

I like what the guy with the “hatty” said. I use all chain with a 2 leg bridle each leg about 25-30’, connected to anchor chain with a secured chain hook, then drop as much anchor chain down between, inside, the bridle legs, as I feel is appropriate for the water depth. This adds to the weight of the anchor chain which increases the catenary effect, lowering the point of attachment to the vessel.
 
Capt Bill

Not sure how using a bridal lowers the point of attachment. If the bridal is attached to the deck it would be the same height, if it is attached to the water line of the vessel I agree.
 
Our new (to us) 42' CHB Sundeck has a large horizontal Lofrans windlass with a big cleat built into the top. PO said he never used a snubber on the all chain road - of course I'm having to replace the motor in said windlass :banghead: - but the gears are in great shape!
 
“I like what the guy with the “hatty” said. I use all chain with a 2 leg bridle each leg about 25-30’, connected to anchor chain with a secured chain hook, then drop as much anchor chain down between, inside, the bridle legs, as I feel is appropriate for the water depth. This adds to the weight of the anchor chain which increases the catenary effect, lowering the point of attachment to the vessel.”

Honesty, I had not thought about doing that in the past: dropping a lot more chain after the rolling hitch on the snubber/bridle to increase the pulling the catenary effect. Have to think about that some more!

I do not believe this statement is accurate: “lowering the point of attachment to the vessel.” The attachment point to the vessel is still where the snubber is cleated to the vessel or there the chain goes over the bow roller to the windlass. This technique may allow the rode to deal with greater wind/wave action due to greater weight increasing the catenary effect but it ultimately does not change the attachment point.

Steve
 
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