Disturbing report from New Bern, NC

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Joined
Oct 2, 2009
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5,198
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Bucky
Vessel Make
Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Just got a message from the owners of Manatee 36, Swanee, who were told that their boat and many others are missing since Friday as the surge overwhelmed their marina on the Neuse River in New Bern. The dockmaster told them that the docks are gone and he doesn’t know where any of the boats are. The marina “had” floating docks.
 
Why don’t people move their boats to a safe location? With the amount of warning I would think a person could get 200 - 300 miles in any direction. I realize some people work or possibly live to far away. Would moving be possible or am I missing something? Being retired may give me a different perspective than some people.
 
Why don’t people move their boats to a safe location? With the amount of warning I would think a person could get 200 - 300 miles in any direction. I realize some people work or possibly live to far away. Would moving be possible or am I missing something? Being retired may give me a different perspective than some people.
In the case of New Bern, it's been a safe location in the past. By the time it became clear that the flooding and storm surge was going to be epic, it was too late to move. That's my take anyway.

Ted
 
I would have been too nervous to stay with the forecast winds, a long fetch, and a necked down waterway.

That was my concern about ECity if the path had been NW and tracked SW of there.
 
Sorry to hear that just when it was starting to look like NC had somehow dodged a bullet.
 
If you look at Bridgeton Boatworks Facebook page...they are out searching for boats they hauled that floated away. This was EPIC. Some of their boats floated off stands and across the river....and they are out looking for them!!
 
In the weather channel I think in New Bern they showed a steel boat on the shore and a sail boat on the grass just before speaking of.
 
Why don’t people move their boats to a safe location? With the amount of warning I would think a person could get 200 - 300 miles in any direction. I realize some people work or possibly live to far away. Would moving be possible or am I missing something? Being retired may give me a different perspective than some people.

Speaking as someone who had a boat at BridgePointe Marina, one of the marinas heavily damaged during the storm, I will offer my perspective on your comment.

Your question about moving is valid. In the days prior to landfall running from the storm was a strategy that we considered. We are also retired and live aboard our boat full time. But, we travel at 7-9 knots and unfortunately the ultimate path of the storm stayed in flux until it was 2-3 days away. The storm models did not agree on the track so which way do you go? We were thinking north but there was no guarantee that the storm would not follow us and we could only get so far.

For someone with a faster boat moving may have been a realistic option; just not for us.

Ultimately we moved to a more protected marina, added additional lines/chafe gear and from the limited information that we have now the boat survived well.

The boatyards around New Bern have limited storage space for haul-outs and they quickly filled up. Some moved to more protected marinas or an anchorage. Others prepared to the best of their ability and hoped.

We've boated in eastern NC since the early 1990's and cannot remember a storm that did this much damage to boats & marinas on the sound (but we are getting older!).

Your question on moving was good but in this case I think the almost right angle of approach, the uncertainty of the track and the "stately" speed of most trawlers made that an uncertain option unless you were willing to commit 5-7 days prior to landfall.

Bring on the divergent opinions!:dance:

Gene
 
Just now to confirm yeah New Bern. 20180915_183035.jpeg
 
Speaking as someone who had a boat at BridgePointe Marina, one of the marinas heavily damaged during the storm, I will offer my perspective on your comment.

Your question about moving is valid. In the days prior to landfall running from the storm was a strategy that we considered. We are also retired and live aboard our boat full time. But, we travel at 7-9 knots and unfortunately the ultimate path of the storm stayed in flux until it was 2-3 days away. The storm models did not agree on the track so which way do you go? We were thinking north but there was no guarantee that the storm would not follow us and we could only get so far.

For someone with a faster boat moving may have been a realistic option; just not for us.

Ultimately we moved to a more protected marina, added additional lines/chafe gear and from the limited information that we have now the boat survived well.

The boatyards around New Bern have limited storage space for haul-outs and they quickly filled up. Some moved to more protected marinas or an anchorage. Others prepared to the best of their ability and hoped.

We've boated in eastern NC since the early 1990's and cannot remember a storm that did this much damage to boats & marinas on the sound (but we are getting older!).

Your question on moving was good but in this case I think the almost right angle of approach, the uncertainty of the track and the "stately" speed of most trawlers made that an uncertain option unless you were willing to commit 5-7 days prior to landfall.

Bring on the divergent opinions!:dance:

Gene

Gene, very well said! Not to mention the expense, risk to life and limb, capacity at XYZ Marina, and domestic and work obligations- especially with a pending crisis!

It so sad and we all grieve for the unfortunate.
 
Just got a message from the owners of Manatee 36, Swanee, who were told that their boat and many others are missing since Friday as the surge overwhelmed their marina on the Neuse River in New Bern. The dockmaster told them that the docks are gone and he doesn’t know where any of the boats are. The marina “had” floating docks.

Our sympathies to the owners of SWANEE. Hope they find her undamaged.

In North Myrtle Beach we did dodge the bullet, little or no damage in our marina.
 
It is always a gamble.....do you haul out and risk floating off, or do you risk staying in slip and see what happens? At our marina we are a hurricane hole.....but this time....we got hammered. Skinny Dippin seems to be fine.....but other docks in our marina not so much. We were very lucky.

I think our friends in hurricane zones will agree....some you win, some you don’t. This time we have been lucky. Thank goodness.
 
Sorry to hear we’ve possibly lost another Manatee & we hope for the best.
 
While Bridgeton was a floating facility there were clearly some other shortcomings to the design. It was mostly destroyed. The boats on land fared no better than those in the water. Meanwhile Grand Marina fared well.

While I'm sorry to see people lose their boats, far better than risking their lives.
 
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Anyone know when the Dismal was officially closed?

That would have been my cue...if I could still have gotten through 2 -3 days out.

Once the forecast wasn't changing much, the Neuse and Pamlico looked like storm funnels to me.
 
While Bridgeton was a floating facility there were clearly some other shortcomings to the design. It was mostly destroyed. The boats on land fared no better than those in the water. Meanwhile Grand Marina fared well.

While I'm sorry to see people lose their boats, far better than risking their lives.

You are confusing Bridgeton with Bridgepointe. Completely different places miles apart.

If you go back through my posts, discussing various spots around NB prior to the storm you will note I left Bridgeton Boatworks, the yard, off my list of possibilities; that was intentional. Bridgeton Harbor, the big marina over there by the railroad bridge across the Neuse, was in the realm of possibility but I don't know how that turned out; I suspect the outer slips didn't do well.

On a happier note (for us at least), I just got a full report from a neighbor and our house on the Trent miraculously has been unscathed. Water in the yard came up to a point that would indicate about a 15 foot or so flood. Didn't get to the house.
 
You are confusing Bridgeton with Bridgepointe. Completely different places miles apart.

If you go back through my posts, discussing various spots around NB prior to the storm you will note I left Bridgeton Boatworks, the yard, off my list of possibilities; that was intentional. Bridgeton Harbor, the big marina over there by the railroad bridge across the Neuse, was in the realm of possibility but I don't know how that turned out; I suspect the outer slips didn't do well.

On a happier note (for us at least), I just got a full report from a neighbor and our house on the Trent miraculously has been unscathed. Water in the yard came up to a point that would indicate about a 15 foot or so flood. Didn't get to the house.

You are correct. Glad your house has been unscathed.
 
Speaking as someone who had a boat at BridgePointe Marina, one of the marinas heavily damaged during the storm, I will offer my perspective on your comment.



Your question about moving is valid. In the days prior to landfall running from the storm was a strategy that we considered. We are also retired and live aboard our boat full time. But, we travel at 7-9 knots and unfortunately the ultimate path of the storm stayed in flux until it was 2-3 days away. The storm models did not agree on the track so which way do you go? We were thinking north but there was no guarantee that the storm would not follow us and we could only get so far.



For someone with a faster boat moving may have been a realistic option; just not for us.



Ultimately we moved to a more protected marina, added additional lines/chafe gear and from the limited information that we have now the boat survived well.



The boatyards around New Bern have limited storage space for haul-outs and they quickly filled up. Some moved to more protected marinas or an anchorage. Others prepared to the best of their ability and hoped.



We've boated in eastern NC since the early 1990's and cannot remember a storm that did this much damage to boats & marinas on the sound (but we are getting older!).



Your question on moving was good but in this case I think the almost right angle of approach, the uncertainty of the track and the "stately" speed of most trawlers made that an uncertain option unless you were willing to commit 5-7 days prior to landfall.



Bring on the divergent opinions!:dance:



Gene



I’ve seen so much video and news about marinas and boats destroyed that I have figured it was better to run as far away as possible. The projections of possible tracks I saw on tv I would of probably went south. Even running at 6.5 to 7 mph my normal cruising speed 100+ miles a day is possible. How far would a boat have to go with 3 days head start? Even with insurance I would hate to see my boat damaged or destroyed, maybe it’s wishful thinking that I could out run it.
 
I’ve seen so much video and news about marinas and boats destroyed that I have figured it was better to run as far away as possible. The projections of possible tracks I saw on tv I would of probably went south. Even running at 6.5 to 7 mph my normal cruising speed 100+ miles a day is possible. How far would a boat have to go with 3 days head start? Even with insurance I would hate to see my boat damaged or destroyed, maybe it’s wishful thinking that I could out run it.

RC
I may be off a bit, but I doubt most of the affected boats travel more than a few hundred miles per year. Probably not travel ready to quickly depart.

Slipping the lines and "going to sea" to outrun a hurricane could prove to be a daunting task for most of them. Especially when you're trying to secure your house and keep your family safe.

Boating in hurricane country carries a known risk. The most popular option is insure the boat and hope you don't get hit.
 
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Storm Surge

Hi Larry:


Any word from Swanee on if their boat has been found?


I saw news reporting on Saturday of a 9-ft surge in New Bern, although I thought that figure was low since there were also reports that some New Berners were rescued from their rooftops during the midnight - 3 am peak of the storm (can you imagine clinging to your roof during 90-mph winds?). Now that I see here the 15-ft surge report from the gentleman with a house on the Trent River, and a 15-ft storm surge sounds closer to reality.



Last year around this time we were bracing for Irma. Our dirt home is 3 ft above sea level, on a canal off Tampa Bay, and we evacuated. One crazy neighbor who did not evacuate reported that all the water in our cove emptied out as Irma came ashore south of us. That means a huge volume of water emptied out of Tampa Bay and was pushed ashore south of us.


I have observed that some folks simply do not understand that the side of the hurricane that gets the onshore winds gets the storm surge and the majority of the damage.


Please keep us updated on the search for Swanee. She could be anywhere. My heart goes out to Swanee's owners.


Warm Regards,
Pea
 
Towndock.net, Oriental's unofficial town web site has links to tide surge stations in various places across the Neuse R, Pamlico and Albermarle Sound. The one on the Trent River, about 10 miles up stream of New Bern shows a peak surge of 13.7 feet.

See- https://towndock.net/weather/trent-river-at-pollocksville-water-levels

Towndock reports that the tide surge gauge at Oriental failed near the height of the storm when the pier it was connected to got blown away. But their unofficial gauge showed a peak of 9.5 feet at Oriental, slightly above Irene's level.


The four foot difference between Oriental and New Bern is surprising as the crows flight distance between the two is only 20 miles, plus another ten to the Trent River station. Probably due to the strong and sustained east winds that pushed water in the Neuse towards and past New Bern. The rain outflow contributed as well.


David
 
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While the Neuse may have reached it's peak, most rivers in NC and SC haven't yet done so and rivers are expected to crest much higher over the next few days with many hitting record heights. This will lead to inland flooding and repeated coastal flooding in much of the two states.
 
Towndock.net, Oriental's unofficial town web site has links to tide surge stations in various places across the Neuse R, Pamlico and Albermarle Sound. The one on the Trent River, about 10 miles up stream of New Bern shows a peak surge of 13.7 feet.

See- https://towndock.net/weather/trent-river-at-pollocksville-water-levels

Towndock reports that the tide surge gauge at Oriental failed near the height of the storm when the pier it was connected to got blown away. But their unofficial gauge showed a peak of 9.5 feet at Oriental, slightly above Irene's level.


The four foot difference between Oriental and New Bern is surprising as the crows flight distance between the two is only 20 miles, plus another ten to the Trent River station. Probably due to the strong and sustained east winds that pushed water in the Neuse towards and past New Bern. The rain outflow contributed as well.


David

Good summary David. And good guess by me, since I could only rely on a neighbor telling me about what part of the yard the water line had come to.
The Trent is much narrower than the Neuse, which at Oriental is more of a sound, an extremely wide. So all that water getting jammed up the Trent has nowhere to go but up. The normal wind tides reflect the same phenomena, which I've had occasion to make direct comparison having had various properties on the Neuse just south of New Bern proper in the James City district and now this one on the Trent.
 
Is this why there were so many rescues there? I read there were 385 people saved in New Bern, which seemed like a lot for a town that size.
 
Last years Irma fooled everyone when it changed from a near certain hit on Miami/FtLauderdale and went long into the Keys and Marco Island. Then also slammed Jacksonville. Running is a good bet but no guarantee.
 
True about no guarantee, especially when one headed straight up a coast...even worse a peninsula like Fl.... but most are either more perpendicular or predictable.

Had this one stayed Cat 4 AND slowed....imagine New Berns fate then.

No staying or saving the house anyway..might as well head out by boat.
 
Sorry to hear we’ve possibly lost another Manatee & we hope for the best.

speaking of manatees .i got extremely lucky that the one next to me was out for bottom paint (it's for sale by the way)and that allow me to spider web my boat with 20 lines. it's a little tight usually and i was able to pull it away from the dock and had some more experienced people take a second to give me recommendations.

if the forecast from Tuesday morning would have held .my marina may not have been here now. it was 110 mph across 5 miles of Neuse. the speed and direction changed .
 
Why don’t people move their boats to a safe location? With the amount of warning I would think a person could get 200 - 300 miles in any direction. I realize some people work or possibly live to far away. Would moving be possible or am I missing something? Being retired may give me a different perspective than some people.

I heard a similiar remark during Irma as it approached my boat--usually from people with hurricane experience. See my post from a year ago during Irma: http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/sherpa-rip-34608.html

Hurricanes do not follow predictable paths. My boat's marina is in St. Petersburg, which earlier projections showed as in the path of Irma. I could have potentially moved my boat in harms way if I had opted to not stay put. When the "projection bands" tightened, moving my boat to a distant (safer) location at 6-7 knots would have been dangerous. Looking after my family, securing my home, and addressing work issues took priority.

BandB said it best in my thread:

And just where would you move the 1,000,000+ boats in Florida? Many of them are safest right where they are in marinas that have been built to provide hurricane protection. Would you risk your life to move your boat? Or what about your house and your family?

I just find that statement from someone in the PNW reflects a lack of knowledge of the area. Many who moved boats too moved to worse locations. What is really needed is quality homes and marinas built to hurricane codes for homes and standards for marinas.

A lot of houses came through well because of how they were built, as did many marinas. There are many marinas I'd feel comfortable in, not without worry, but as comfortable as possible. I've seen people encouraged to haul boats and consistently seen boats hauled at a marina and put on land there damaged more than the boats in the docks.

We didn't move any boats we own or manage and have zero damage. Now, Fort Lauderdale was luckier than some areas.
 

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