Tipping a dockhand

Marin wrote:rwidman wrote:But you don't tip the guy who runs down the dock in the hot sun or cold rain and grabs your line, pushes your boat off the dock, and risks being crushed or falling in the water?

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I have yet to see a dockhand--- granted there aren't many out here anyway--- who would risk any part of himself to save your boat.* He'll do the other stuff-- perhaps in hopes of a big tip--- but when it comes to actually putting himself at risk I think most boaters will find themselves on their own.*

I've watched one or more dockhands at places like Roche Harbor out here actually back away if a boater has misjudged a docking or the current is about to mash his boat up against a piling or whatever.* I'm not blaming them--- I would too.* But this notion of the heroic dockhand risking all to save your boat is a bit hard to credit, at least from what I've seen out here.

Perhaps it's different in other regions.

I saw one lose a shoe and risk a serious foot injury (honestly he shouldn't have done this) while keeping one boat from hitting another at my marina.* They have gone in the water and they have lost radios and cell phones to the water.

They will hop on a boat and dock if for the owner if necessary.* Not every one of them, but most have a great attitude about helping the marina slip holders and dry stack customers.* They are friendly and know our names.

*

I am conveinced to be cab driver in Japan you must have flown at least one successeful kamakaze mission. Tipping, I tip if the dock hand is there waiting for me and handles the lines so the wife or I don't have to. I give them a five spot and more often than not they then help with water and electrical connections.

Honestly I have never thought of tipping Dock Hands for Fueling or docking but now that you bring it up I will be more conscience. *I was a waiter for many years and as a waiter I only made $2.01 an hour plus tips when the cooks made $7-$8 per hour. *Because of being a waiter in a former life I tip heavily at restraunts 20%-25% and we give Christmas Gifts to our regular servers at restraunts we frequent. *This was many years ago but most other professions make min wage or above min wage except waitstaff, that is why tipping is expected in the US and while many other countries do not tip because their servers are paid a bigger average wage. *Believe me when I was a server we fought over or actually I bribed the Hostess to not seat me folks from Canada or England. *Ok I know this is in bad taste but the going joke was "What is the difference between a Canadian and a Canoe" ??? * * "A Canoe will Tip" *LOL.

oh jeeze here goes the hate mail. *

At my last marina they automatically included a tip on my december bill as a Christmas tip for all the workers. I thought that to be very presumptous of them and i resented it very much.

On the other hand the dock hand that helped me tie up and handled the duties of pumping out and helping me fuel up I did tip a five spot. I just hated being extorted a Christmas tip

re Canadians and tipping canoes

*
I was born and brought up *in Scotland , *have made Canada my home for the last forty odd years and starting 3 years ago, now winter in *the Phoenix area. *It wasnt till we spent time in Arizona that we first heard the comments about Canadians being cheap tippers . My own observation is that there are cheap and generous people in every nationality, but nevertheless this belief *seems *so widespread that there must be some truth to it. Personally I *always tip in restaurants, between 10% and 20% based on service received and usually tip dockhands who are helpful.
*
We are continually impressed by the level of service and friendliness we find here(in Arizona) *and* maybe if **more Canadians experienced *the same *consistently *excellent quality of service in Canada that we do in America they would be encouraged to tip more generously.

*

hogrider46 wrote:
At my last marina they automatically included a tip on my december bill as a Christmas tip for all the workers. I thought that to be very presumptous of them and i resented it very much.

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I agree, forced tips just*put me over the edge.**At the restaurants and pubs I frequent,*I regularly tip 20%.**Not because I have to, but because I want to.*Great service and good food*makes it worth it.* When we walk in the door, they greet us by name, pay attention to us, our needs and*behave like they really care.**

IMHO the message I get from a restaurant*or business who have mandatory tips included in the bill is;*Our food isn't particulary good, the service is so - so and we can't keep good help, because we don't pay them enough and you are unlikely to adequately tip our people.* The one exception*I make is for serving large groups, 15 - 20 people.* Often a 12 -15% gratuity is added to the tab, which is*reasonable.

I have many Canadian friends and one side of my*family, who I spend a lot of time with.* I have never seen them not tip,*I think their custom is to tip*in the 10%-15% range.* I will say they are more likely to call a spade-a-spade though.* You WILL get what you deserve, no bones about that!!*

My girl friend is from Spain and she has been here 12 years and still finds the tipping thing repulsive.* Used to be the source of many fights when we went out for dinner.* I got in the habit of using a credit card and including the tip,*just to keep peace in the family.*

p.s. I have heard lately of some establishments, where the manager / owner pools the tips and takes a share for themselves.* I would encourage people not to frequent their business.*


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Sunday 25th of December 2011 05:04:56 PM

All I can say is; sometimes ignorance shines through with those that speak or in this case "type" with assumption being the bases for their intellect. My friend from Trindad had the same concept until he went back home for a visit on a "budget" and realized the cost associated with his visit and reduced his tipping to the several steel drum bands that he once played in and developed his concepts of cheap Canadians. He then realized how much it cost to travel. I would say thank God for the influx of converted Canadian money into the US economy taking into the consideration of it's state right now. Tipping is based on "service" not %'s both US & CAN. I for one tip where I go and know many other Canadian that are the same. Elwin

Before self-service service stations, attendants pumped the gas, washed your windshield, checked oil and water levels, and if asked, the tire pressure, and brought back your change.* Never heard of those attendants expecting tips.

We all run dogsleds most of the year, and live in igloos too.

The waiter or dock,hand doesn't care what country you are from. They are paid minimum wage. Unless someone lives with Mom & Dad, they aren't making enough money to support themselves.

I like it when they expect it (have their hand out), but if someone is reasonably pleasant I tip 15%, anything beyond reasonably pleasant and I tip accordingly, especially if it involves listening to my crying screaming two year olds.

I spent 12 years working in ski resort hotels.

There is a difference between a home marina, and a transient marina.

When I kept the little DeFever at a marina I never expected or ever received any help entering or exiting my slip. It was my responsibility to be prepared to dock and undock.

During our trips up north from FL to ME we stop a quite a few marinas new to us, and are usually assisted by marina staff directing us to the slip, assisting with tying up, connecting shore power, showing us around, and usually providing courtesy cars.

I tip at transient marinas.

I've been told by more than one dock master, in more than one state, that about 80% of* transient power boaters tip, and that about 20% of* transient sail boaters do.

As a sail boater for 30 plus years I find that depressing, I always tipped in* transient marinas when aboard my Sweden Yacht 41.

Mike
Palm Coast FL.

*** *** *** ***

Im amazed. . . *My girlfriend just told me, that I give larger tips to*waitresses with large chests and a revealing top!!!

I told her, "That's just not true!" . . . .

"I would give the same tip to a waitress with a medium chest and a revealing blouse as well!!

Where is her head??* Thats the Spaniard coming out in her!!

*

Edelweiss wrote:
Im amazed. . . *My girlfriend just told me, that I give larger tips to*waitresses with large chests and a revealing top!!!

I told her, "That's just not true!"

. . . .

"I would give the same tip to a waitress with a medium chest and a revealing blouse as well!!

Where is her head??* Thats the Spaniard coming out in her!!

*

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*Ed, that is just sooooo shallow. *I think one of the moderators should put you on probation. *By the way do you mind telling what restaurants you have been eating in?

We had a reverse incident at th Marco Island YC. *When we tied up, Lou came in, and said we should give the dock master a little extra tip. *She said that he was very competent. *I later learned that he had told her "honey, you just stand there, look pretty, and hand me the line when I ask for it". *I asked," just who was handing whom a line".

See it works both ways.

Moonstruck wrote:* *Ed, that is just sooooo shallow. *I think one of the moderators should put you on probation. *By the way do you mind telling what restaurants you have been eating in?

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*

You're too late, I'm already on probation tonight.* Loosely translated,*Eva's father says,* "A jealous Spanish woman is more dangerous than the Mafia."

I see your point though, talk about shallow?* Lou should be ashamed of herself falling for that old line??

Larry B

ps: It's a long way from TN, but one of my favorite*restaurant and*pubs is the Brown Lantern Ale House in downtown Anacortes, Wa.* Probably one of the more popular stops.* It's really for the food, as I don't even care for beer.


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Sunday 25th of December 2011 07:51:08 PM

Edelweiss wrote:

Larry B

ps: It's a long way from TN, but one of my favorite*restaurant and*pubs is the Brown Lantern Ale House in downtown Anacortes, Wa.* Probably one of the more popular stops.* It's really for the food, as I don't even care for beer.

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*Come on now. *We've already figured out why you go there.

Badger wrote:
The waiter or dock,hand doesn't care what country you are from. They are paid minimum wage. Unless someone lives with Mom & Dad, they aren't making enough money to support themselves.

I like it when they expect it (have their hand out), but if someone is reasonably pleasant I tip 15%, anything beyond reasonably pleasant and I tip accordingly, especially if it involves listening to my crying screaming two year olds.

I spent 12 years working in ski resort hotels.

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*So, when I "top the tanks" with $500 of diesel fuel, I should tip $75?* And a fill-up is worth a $200 tip?* Sorry, paying more than $100 an hour for service is rediculous.* That's twice what I've ever made as a highly-educated, licensed professional.* And for what? Handing me the hose and taking my money?* Sorry, that's not extraordinary, and I*don't see the morality in paying a tip in such instances.


-- Edited by markpierce on Sunday 25th of December 2011 09:25:17 PM

Ididn't intend to imply that everyone should get 15% for every service, just to state that I have a soft spot for the service industry.* I usually tip 20-30% at restaruants.* I know the business VERY well, and I hate to see a server not get tipped well if the kitchen screwed up.* I can tell usually which side of the house the mistep occurred.* If the waiter, completely flubs it, they still get a tip.* If they are rude and innatentive, I have left nothing.

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Heck, I went into a coffee shop today on Christmas.* (NOT STARBUCKS) and I am torn about it.* I hate that I am giving the owner/stockholder a reason to open up on Christmas day.* I tipped $5 on two cups of coffee.* It was their job to serve me, they were kinda of pleasant, but it sucks having to work on a holiday (even if you aren't of the celebrating faith)

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I just am suprised by the original posters sentiment to start a "movement" to not tip.*

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I beleive that this is all tied in to the "Walmartization" of our society.* We all want things for the lowest price.*

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It used to be that a shoe salesman could support a family, not anymore.

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Do I make enough to make sure that everything I purchase or use the services of pays a living wage.* Nope, and I feel bad about it.*

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I just think it is a bad idea to make blanket statements about not tipping.

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markpierce wrote:

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Badger wrote:
The waiter or dock,hand doesn't care what country you are from. They are paid minimum wage. Unless someone lives with Mom & Dad, they aren't making enough money to support themselves.

I like it when they expect it (have their hand out), but if someone is reasonably pleasant I tip 15%, anything beyond reasonably pleasant and I tip accordingly, especially if it involves listening to my crying screaming two year olds.

I spent 12 years working in ski resort hotels.

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*So, when I "top the tanks" with $500 of diesel fuel, I should tip $75?* And a fill-up is worth a $200 tip?* Sorry, paying more than $100 an hour for service is rediculous.* That's twice what I've ever made as a highly-educated, licensed professional.* And for what? Handing me the hose and taking my money?* Sorry, that's not extraordinary, and I*don't see the morality in paying a tip in such instances.



-- Edited by markpierce on Sunday 25th of December 2011 09:25:17 PM

*

If a certain MLK was still here today, I suspect he might have amended his famous speech, and included a line to the effect.."I also have a dream that one day my brother and fellow worker will be paid enough for devoting a huge and priceless part of his life to serve others in order to live, that he/she will not need to be the recipient of that demeaning custom called "tipping", based on the generosity of those whom he serves, but rather, based on the real value of any individual person's time, as we each only have one life, with which to earn".
Every person who works for a living deserves that. That's how it is in fact here in Australia and New Zealand, and having now traveled in parts of the world where this is not the case, I know which approach I prefer. Sorry if anyone thinks this should be on OTDE, but this is where the subject arose. Back on thread, if we here offered a monetary tip anyone who came to help us dock, they would take it as a grave insult, even marina staff would.


-- Edited by Peter B on Monday 26th of December 2011 04:01:27 AM

For Anchor cruisers , there are times tipping is a good idea.

On the ICW there are many fuel /o'nite docks that are empty b 10AM . They don't start to refill til 2PM .

Stop after 10am and most times a 5 spot will get you long enough (under 2 hours) to do a unload the garbage, do bunch of wash , hit the local market with your shopping cart , and fill the water tank. If you dump the holding tank , get a paper bill to show the Federal Marine Police (USCG).

That's $5.00 well spent for a cruiser

Peter B wrote:
If a certain MLK was still here today, I suspect he might have amended his famous speech, and included a line to the effect.."I also have a dream that one day my brother and fellow worker will be paid enough for devoting a huge and priceless part of his life to serve others in order to live, that he/she will not need to be the recipient of that demeaning custom called "tipping", based on the generosity of those whom he serves, but rather, based on the real value of any individual person's time, as we each only have one life, with which to earn".
Every person who works for a living deserves that. That's how it is in fact here in Australia and New Zealand, and having now traveled in parts of the world where this is not the case, I know which approach I prefer. Sorry if anyone thinks this should be on OTDE, but this is where the subject arose. Back on thread, if we here offered a monetary tip anyone who came to help us dock, they would take it as a grave insult, even marina staff would.



-- Edited by Peter B on Monday 26th of December 2011 04:01:27 AM

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*That's why a smart traveler/cruiser asks or learns customs when traveling in unfamiliar waters.

There are manners, custom, speech and gestures and even jokes that are perfectly acceptable in places that are extremely rude just around the corner.

Tipping is the "salary" of some because of the wages that are paid in some service industries which makes tipping almost mandatory.

In others cases where the pay is good...tipping is just showing appreciation and is indicative of two perople...the person tipped and the quality of their service...and the tipper and their character.


-- Edited by psneeld on Monday 26th of December 2011 06:06:27 AM

It would be great if we lived in a country (talking about the USA here) where people were paid what their education, skills and effort were worth and they were paid by their employer, not by tips from their customers. But, this is not the case and it's not likely to change anytime soon or because of one boater starting a campaign on an Internet forum to end tipping at marinas.

Would I rather not be expected to tip? Sure. The price of a meal should be the price of a meal. The price of a haircut should be the price of a haircut, the price of a slip should be the price of a slip, etc.

But - that's not the case in the USA. "Rich" people are expected to tip "poor" people for personal services. Personally, I don't consider myself to be a "rich" person, but when I have a nice home and a nice boat that may be worth more than a dockhand's actual home, I may be a "rich" person in his eyes. So - If I can afford to own a home and an expensive boat, can afford the depreciation, maintenance and operation of that boat, I figure $5 - $10 for help at my slip keeps people happy and makes the world a better place.


-- Edited by rwidman on Monday 26th of December 2011 06:55:28 AM

charles wrote:
Just how one would determine that anyone on the dock is competent is beyond me.

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In our case when we give a line to someone on a dock it is always a boater we already know.* We boat a fair amount with Carey of this forum and as his boat is faster they always get there first.* Or they're already out and we meet up with them.* As Carey and his wife are more experienced boaters than we are, we have no compunction about giving them the lines as we come in.* We have also met other boaters over the years and if we run into one of them we'll give them a line if it proves necessary.

But out here--- don't know about back east--- getting a boat up to the dock is not rocket science, so in fact most boaters that have managed to get themselves to a marine park dock or wherever are most likely knowledgeable enough to help another boater in if it's necesssary.* In fact we've observed that it's almost always the experienced boaters who walk over to offer a hand if it's wanted.** The newbies and runabout drivers and sport fishermen don't offer.

T=To

I=insure

P= Prompt

S=Service.

Especially if you are a regular.

SD

skipperdude wrote:
T=To

I=insure

P= Prompt

S=Service.

Especially if you are a regular.

SD

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I never tip anyone other than restaurant employees and taxi drivers and I feel I get prompt service everywhere I go--- fuel dock, boatyard, gas stations, stores, hotels, marinas, car washes, lumberyard, box stores, our yard service, haircut people and on and on and on.* I think most people who work in service industries grasp the concept that prompt, good service is what their job is all about.

There's a ton of competition out there and I think they inherently know that if I'm not satisfied with what they do for me, I'm not going to tip to try to make it better, I'm going to take my business to someone else.* I've never gotten a sense from anyone that I can remember--- even the people that I do tipe--- that I would get better service if I tipped them.* I will thank them, sometimes profusely if I think they did a really good job, but their monetary reward is in their paycheck.


-- Edited by Marin on Monday 26th of December 2011 12:17:41 PM

I don't necessarily agree about handing experienced people your dock lines. Every docking situation is different even if it is at a dock you go to all the time(ie your slip). Just like flying an airplane, there are certain dynamics that come into play that you can't totally predict and you have to deal with them as you see fit. The experienced person on the dock does not know your plan and what you are trying to do so they are still capable of totally screwing up your situation. I brief my onboard crew NOT to throw dock lines to people on the dock until I tell them....and that is usually when the boat is up against the dock with the fenders doing their job...basically stepping off the boat while handing a dock line.

Now I take my own advice if I am on the dock and the receiver of said line. Most inexperienced boaters(or their inexperienced crew) will launch a dock line any time they are in range. If they could launch them from 100 yards, they would. But in the end, as a line handler on the dock, I either leave the line slack and let the helmsman do his job or ASSUME I know what he is trying to do and help him in that regard. But that is all a shorebound line handler can do is ASSUME....unless the captain has briefed them and can talk to them thru the maneuver to tell them what he needs.

*"To insure*Prompt Service."

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Wow, ethically I can't agree with that.**I can honestly say, that I have never given a tip with that goal in mind. . .ever!* It*takes away from the*goodness of "gift giving" which comes from the heart*and*it is much too close to that other term which I absolutely detest.****

"Bribery"*An*act of demanding*money, gift*giving, or favor*which will*alter the behavior of the recipient.

*


-- Edited by Edelweiss on Monday 26th of December 2011 01:54:42 PM

Marin wrote:
But out here--- don't know about back east--- getting a boat up to the dock is not rocket science, so in fact most boaters that have managed to get themselves to a marine park dock or wherever are most likely knowledgeable enough to help another boater in if it's necesssary.* In fact we've observed that it's almost always the experienced boaters who walk over to offer a hand if it's wanted.** The newbies and runabout drivers and sport fishermen don't offer.

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*It's probably just as well that the newbys and runabout drivers don't offer; who knows what they would do with your lines. A good hard pull on your bow line would be my guess.

I find that it can be quite rewarding to assist someone docking. The ensuing conversation re their boat and recent adventures (or whatever) if it happens, can be quite memorable.

One negative experience stands out though. I'd helped a ~ 25' runabout dock (help was needed) and once done the wife/girlfriend/whomever thanked me effusively while the captain just gave me a glare. I guess I'd threatened his manhood.

The price of a meal should be the price of a meal.

IT IS , just eat at Mickey D's.

Much of "eating out" is the ambiance and service , not just the stuff on a plate.

Fine service should be paid for , a resturant owner need not pay as there are far too many folks that can handle slopping food.

The difference in the dining experience is worth the difference , of a tip.

Hmmm... that reminds me. We didn't get the "tip letter" this year from the marina. For the last few years we got a letter saying that they were going to add $X to our bill to tip the marina staff for the year. If we didn't want to participate, we had to contact the office.

I really hated that idea, and always objected and didn't get charged. The marina staff around here does nothing specifically for me, and I don't see the need to tip them at Christmas for doing their normal jobs. Now if they DO help with something like bringing ice to the boat, I tip them right then.

I guess enough people griped that they stopped the practice, or just forgot. Or maybe the charge will just show up on my next bill. Do any of you see that kind of policy at your marinas?