This is an interesting deal

What B&B said. As a single liveaboard when I bought the old girl (1976) it actually made sense and was sort of cost effective in the post Katrina housing situation here. Then I decided I really like her. Kept her and worked on her. Hole in the water you throw money into. Yep. Keeps me happy.

Simi 60 said:

Rubbish.
Plenty of people buy and live on boats because it is considerably more affordable than the land based alternative.

Click to expand...

That may be true where you are, but here the costs very rarely make it so. Perhaps a few in San Francisco or other very high cost areas.

Simi 60 said:

Rubbish.
Plenty of people buy and live on boats because it is considerably more affordable than the land based alternative.

Click to expand...

Well, like any blanket statement there are always exceptions. So BandB assertion wasn't entirely accurate. However, on the whole, I think the number of folks that live aboard is a very small percentage of boat owners. How many of those actually save money over living in a dirt home is another question. So certainly not impossible, but I don't think it is very common.

The only way you will save money is to defer all repairs and routine maintenance. If you buy a cheap boat and run it into the ground it will probably be cheaper than renting an equivalent apartment although an apartment with the tiny space of a cheap boat may be hard to find. Of course you will still have to dispose of a near derelict boat when you move on which will not be cheap and must be taken into account when calculating your total expenses.

Or you could just abandon it and let the taxpayers deal with it as others seem to do.....

Shrew said:

So academically brilliant but regarding common-sense and street smarts, in the lower 20th percentile.

(I'm a computer engineer, so before people start getting offended......)

Click to expand...

Actually, from my understanding, just the opposite. Working class background and worked blue collar jobs to become top in his field. Owns several very successful companies and bought a 50 some' yacht to replace this one. I believe it's a Westport.

Woodland Hills said:

The only way you will save money is to defer all repairs and routine maintenance. If you buy a cheap boat and run it into the ground it will probably be cheaper than renting an equivalent apartment although an apartment with the tiny space of a cheap boat may be hard to find. Of course you will still have to dispose of a near derelict boat when you move on which will not be cheap and must be taken into account when calculating your total expenses.

Or you could just abandon it and let the taxpayers deal with it as others seem to do.....

Click to expand...

Not true.
Our vessel is a comfortable well appointed 3 bedroom 2 bathroom waterfront home with stunning ever changing ocean views and bought for cash.
She gets regular and ongoing maintenance done.

A comparable dirt home with ocean views would cost 15x more.
It would also require maintenance + rates, water,electricity, a car.
AND we would have neighbours

The worst part is it would require us to sell our assets, lose our income stream and get a job to pay the difference.
The banksters would own us again.
That would be going backwards on a monumental scale.

Each situation is different and how you view a few of the emotional and tangible aspects of living aboard can swing that "economical" pendulum either way.

Simi 60 said:

Not true.

Our vessel is a comfortable well appointed 3 bedroom 2 bathroom waterfront home with stunning ever changing ocean views and bought for cash.

She gets regular and ongoing maintenance done.



A comparable dirt home with ocean views would cost 15x more.

It would also require maintenance + rates, water,electricity, a car.

AND we would have neighbours



The worst part is it would require us to sell our assets, lose our income stream and get a job to pay the difference.

The banksters would own us again.

That would be going backwards on a monumental scale.

Click to expand...

You are definitely living the dream (or at least a dream). Sounds pretty nice and I’m really happy you are making it work so well.

What’s wrong with old boats!

Sabre602 said:

A 50 year old, $240K Tolly is mind-boggling.

A $600K refit on said Tolly is insane.

An $85,000 paint job?!? WTF?!?

Click to expand...

Well put.

When it comes to living on a boat, I can only speak for Seattle. You can live on a 30’ boat, shower on shore, do laundry down the street, and hike to your car vs living in a studio apartment with laundry in the basement and a spot for your car 200 feet from your door. The boat is cheaper but then you could live in a tent next to the ocean locks and save even more money.

It’s really hard to do an apple to apple comparison. The closest you can get is a 50’ boat with 2 state rooms and laundry vs a 2 bedroom apartment. After you buy, maintain, and sell the boat, it will have been cheaper to rent the apartment. Moorage on a fifty foot boat is almost equal to a 1 bedroom apartment.

In Seattle nothing has been cheaper than buying property and riding the 15% annual increase in values. Those who bought a boat instead of a condo or house have lost big time in value.

I will always own a boat, living on it instead of investing in a house gave me more money to invest in apartments that make me money. I would be better off financiallyto live in one of my own apartments, I’d just rather spend more and live on my boat.

You might find a better suited boat for the same money but a completely refitted boat with new engines and wall to wall furnishings? We should all know what that costs and a boat this size would come in higher even @ 15-20 years old.


Cant honestly say why someone would do it but the idea that it's overpriced has been mentioned which is not the case.

Mrwesson said:

You might find a better suited boat for the same money but a completely refitted boat with new engines and wall to wall furnishings? We should all know what that costs and a boat this size would come in higher even @ 15-20 years old.


Cant honestly say why someone would do it but the idea that it's overpriced has been mentioned which is not the case.

Click to expand...

Totally agree. This boat is NOT overpriced. It's a steal. But I think the biggest hurdle for a buyer is the fact that she's still 50 years old....hard to gloss over that fact.

Let’s all wait to see if the owner can find someone to “steal” it.

For a boater like myself, it would be much more cost effective to live aboard than to live on land. A boater that lives on land will always own a boat therefore will have expenses on both house and boat. If my wife and I decided to move aboard, we can either rent or sell our house and our monthly outlay will be reduced significantly.

mahal said:

For a boater like myself, it would be much more cost effective to live aboard than to live on land. A boater that lives on land will always own a boat therefore will have expenses on both house and boat. If my wife and I decided to move aboard, we can either rent or sell our house and our monthly outlay will be reduced significantly.

Click to expand...

Entirely different comparison. Yes, living on a boat is often less expensive than a land home plus a boat.

To the original point, we don't buy boats to save money. We do so to boat. We may then try to justify it by financial calculation and may occasionally find it can be done.

It's a bit like we chartered the year before purchasing so by comparison I guess we could say we purchased to save money. Now, a couple of problems with that. First, chartering was expensive and doing nothing would have been far cheaper. Second, ownership doesn't really save us much if anything over chartering. It would if we only had one boat. We just prefer it.

BandB said:

Entirely different comparison. Yes, living on a boat is often less expensive than a land home plus a boat.

To the original point, we don't buy boats to save money. We do so to boat. We may then try to justify it by financial calculation and may occasionally find it can be done.

Click to expand...

Sure! We consider our boat a toy. If however one chooses boat living with the idea of cost savings, those savings should be compared to living quarters of equal size. It takes a very big boat to provide similar square footage and amenities offered by most apartments, townhouses and cottages.

South of Heaven said:

Totally agree. This boat is NOT overpriced. It's a steal. But I think the biggest hurdle for a buyer is the fact that she's still 50 years old....hard to gloss over that fact.

Click to expand...

A fifty year old hull might be more robust than a new one. And a Monk hull to boot.

tiltrider1 said:

It’s really hard to do an apple to apple comparison. The closest you can get is a 50’ boat with 2 state rooms and laundry vs a 2 bedroom apartment. After you buy, maintain, and sell the boat, it will have been cheaper to rent the apartment. Moorage on a fifty foot boat is almost equal to a 1 bedroom apartment.
.

Click to expand...

You keep saying renting an apartment but why?
You don't rent the boat you buy it so apple to apple comparison is to buy the apartment.

I just had a look at downtown 2 bedroom Seattle apartments with water views and it seems around $1.5 million is the going rate.
To get closer to us, 3 bedroom 2 bathroom is $2mill.

That's the same sort of comparison I did, boat with same or better view for a fraction of the cost.
We anchor, never use a berth so an additional $1500/mth in front again.

dhmeissner said:

A fifty year old hull might be more robust than a new one. And a Monk hull to boot.

Click to expand...

Add in the $600k refit and $85k paint and its arguably a new boat

Simi 60 said:

Rubbish.
Plenty of people buy and live on boats because it is considerably more affordable than the land based alternative.

Click to expand...

Simi,

You make a good point, but it's not about the cost savings of the land based alternative. It's about life style, and that's true for the boat or the dirt house. Neither are investments, they are both expenses.

We expect a return on an investment, and invest to make money so we can spent it on things that bring us more pleasure than the money. We shouldn't expect to profit from our houses and toys. Just decide on how many dollars can give xxxx pleasure and spend accordingly.

Spend baby, spend.

Seevee said:

Simi,

You make a good point, but it's not about the cost savings of the land based alternative. It's about life style, and that's true for the boat or the dirt house. Neither are investments, they are both expenses.

We expect a return on an investment, and invest to make money so we can spent it on things that bring us more pleasure than the money. We shouldn't expect to profit from our houses and toys. Just decide on how many dollars can give xxxx pleasure and spend accordingly.

Spend baby, spend.

Click to expand...

A house is not an investment? Have you spent any time looking at how unaffordable they have become for many? Now compare a home’s price to how affordable a 15-20 year old boat can be.

Homes can be either

Just depends....

Made a ton of money when flipping homes, lost money on every bought home I have lived in (4 in all).

Home prices do cycle although the general price slope is upwards. When I built my current home the cost was 1/10th its present value. And sure, it came with expenses for things such as mortgage payments, taxes, water bills and maintenance. Without home ownership, I would have a stack of worthless rent receipts to show for my money spent.

We also own income property where the expenses have always been less than the rents collected. Today those units are mostly mortgage free. They are a gift that keeps on giving. No way, no how does habitable property where I live depreciate in value. This is true for most of the country.

Now lets consider if a boat holds or increases in value.

The unfortunate thing about housing costs today is so many, especially the younger population find the prices unaffordable. The problem is getting worse.

psneeld said:

Homes can be either

Just depends....

Made a ton of money when flipping homes, lost money on every bought home I have lived in (4 in all).

Click to expand...

Houses as income properties or flipping can be investments. However, I can't think of the home we live in as an investment. The value is apparently higher than what we paid, but that benefits us in no way since we have no intent to sell. All it does is increases our property taxes.

Financial publications have run the numbers and in some cases, wise investing and frugal living actually beat a lot of home ownership based on averages And I don"t mean tiny houses.

What I read mentioned the switch came around the 1980s . Wise investing for the average person became easier, plus investing started to outpace the past"s steady climb in housing and land prices .

BandB said:

Houses as income properties or flipping can be investments. However, I can't think of the home we live in as an investment. The value is apparently higher than what we paid, but that benefits us in no way since we have no intent to sell. All it does is increases our property taxes.

Click to expand...

Really! Should one consider a stock purchase not to be an investment because it is not yet sold?

psneeld said:

Financial publications have run the numbers and in some cases, wise investing and frugal living actually beat a lot of home ownership based on averages And I don"t mean tiny houses.

What I read mentioned the switch came around the 1980s . Wise investing for the average person became easier, plus investing started to outpace the past"s steady climb in housing and land prices .

Click to expand...

Sure, there are places one can invest that have a much higher return than homes. That however does a not mean that a home when sold and provides a greater return than cost was not an investment. And of course, people purchase homes to live in not to make money but nobody lives forever and homes do get sold.

Now lets consider if a boat holds or increases in value.

foggysail said:

Really! Should one consider a stock purchase not to be an investment because it is not yet sold?

Click to expand...

But stock is available for sale and one day will be sold. Our home is one we intend to keep forever.

Also, while our home value is up, by the time you add in expenditures and costs of maintaining and taxes and insurance, it's not a good investment. People get excited about the increased value in their homes and overlook what they have spent.

foggysail said:

but nobody lives forever

Click to expand...

Wifey B: