The Great Loop- What would YOU ask the experts?

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David Hughes said:
I’d like to ask veterans about their maintenance needs, what tools and parts they brought, what they needed but did not have, how much downtime they faced, and what could they fix themselves vs what they needed help with. I’m utterly mechanically disinclined, so it remains an area of concern for me.
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While I don't think service on conventional boats and engines is much of an issue on the loop, one related question I'd ask is haul out facilities and sizes each can handle. We had someone on the forum recently who thought he might need to be hauled out and didn't know how far he'd need to be towed.
 
psneeld said:
Supposedly one of the high number Loopers...something like 20 or more loops has never had a major event/breakdown.

I would like to know what maintenance has been done through the years or because it has been done on multiple vessels, the age/time on equipment before shoving off.
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See the recent thread on the Last Manatee. Interesting comments on the boat that's done 29 loops.
 
The Wife wants to go

With the storage space limited on all boats, my lovely wife would like to ask what people brought with them on the trip but found it was never needed and what they didn't bring and wish they had.
 
Jeff F said:
See the recent thread on the Last Manbatee. Interesting comments on the boat that's done 29 loops.
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Not the guy I am thinking of....

If the Manatee wore out 3 engines in 24 loops, I just cant believe tbat after 20 loops, one hasnt had a major failure someplace that didn't cause a delay or a
significant repair to SOME system, even if not the engine.
 
Regarding maintenance on the loop:
I didn't have to do any engine repairs, but did replace a shower sump pump and had never ending problems with my dinghy outboard. For those doing their own maintenance, here are a few observations:

Oil changes: Bring your filters, you can source oil along the way. Disposing of used oil at marinas is a big problem for some reason. Walmart will happily take it, no questions asked.

Having parts and mail shipped ahead to marinas can sometimes be a problem. Some municipal marinas don't receive mail or packages (goes to a municipal building somewhere in town). Good luck getting it on a weekend. I had very good luck with the US postal service. If mailing, send it "General Delivery ", and they will hold it at the post office for you to pick up.

Your Name
GENERAL DELIVERY
Any Town, ST 00000

Ted
 
When I was putting together my spares for the trip I thought a spare alternator would be good to have so I called my parts supplier and asked him about it. He laughed and said since I wasn't going to deepest, darkest Africa he could FedEx me anything I needed within 24 hours. It still has that alternator.
 
psneeld said:
If the Manatee wore out 3 engines in 24 loops, I just cant believe tbat after 20 loops, one hasnt had a major failure someplace that didn't cause a delay or a significant repair to SOME system, even if not the engine.
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Each loop is about 1000 hours on the engine(s) at trawler speeds. Certainly he must have worn out his engine(s) and/or major overhauled them outside the looping.
 
Can't be sure of the 1000 hrs per loop as not everyone does them the same...but if he bought a high time engine boat, put 3000 on it....then replaced/rebuilt with 6000 to 8000 before starting out again each cycle....not really all that hard to believe.

My hard to believe understanding is just doing somd random PM before leaving with less than a relatively new boat and not having some kind of issues in 20 or more trips.
 
O C Diver said:
... Disposing of used oil at marinas is a big problem for some reason. Walmart will happily take it, no questions asked. ...
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Most auto parts stores will take it too. Some places they are legally required to accept used oil.
 
ssobol said:
Most auto parts stores will take it too. Some places they are legally required to accept used oil.
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What? Don't you pump it out overboard?

(Before being hammered down I need to precise that I am just kidding)

L
 
A few frequent questions/topics are:

-route calendar/seasonal time tables
-maximum dimensional limits for boat air, in water drafts, and beam
-costs
-mail
-health and medications concerns,
-repairs
-transportation options off the boat, going home for holidays, Doc appts.,meeting a guests and getting them back off the boat.
-prevalence of resources for restocking foods, potable water, fuel,
-weather concerns storms, heat, cold,
-safety security concerns, protection, weapon carrying,
-pets
-anchoring
-internet connectivity
-"bests" stops, tourist sites
-guides digital, and print.
-must anchor?, anchoring




Sorry to disagree regarding the Mississippi. The Mississippi River is not boring nor are the views confined by levees. I have cruised the entire Mississippi from above Minneapolis to Nola Same with the Ohio River/Rivers, Tenn and Cumberland and others all part of my 40.000+ miles cruising 3 + loops and side trips. I have done almost every main option for a loop. That said the only "must do" route/conjunction point to close the loop is through Chicago and down the Illinois River. There is no other option to close it by water.
All the trips and options are absolutely worthwhile options and so do as many as you can within your means and health. They are all Great Personal Adventures that are not adventuresome.
 
I suggest that when inviting guests aboard for a segment of the trip (or when guests invite themselves aboard:), be sure to make them aware to purchase ticket insurance if the airfare is pricey. The boat only moves when the captain says it moves. Risks should not be taken to get people to the airport on time. Make it clear that if we come up short of your destination, you will be Ubering or taking a bus to get to where you need to be. We didn't have any problems in that department, but everyone knew up front of the possibilities.
Pack light, you don't need half the crap you think you do. Our first trip back home that was scheduled to take care of some medical issues found us renting a car so that we could bring back a load of "stuff" we never should have took but thought we would need.
 
My wife and I did the GREAT CIRCLE CRUISE now called the Loop.
Our boat was the 45 CHB that you see. We were almost always the largest boat. That is really not needed a 32 would suit us just fine.
We did it in multiple YEARS, 5 to be exact. Doing the trip, 5500 miles in a year/season is the norm but one cannot, i repeat cannot see all the good stuff in that time.
We left La. March 1 and arrived in Baltimore for the winter in Oct. Most people that we met were clearing Chicago before then!
Did the Tortugas, Key West, and such for weeks!
In the spring of the next year toured MORE of the Chesapeake and anchored many places and went up several of the rivers. By the way we were told that at the end of our FIRST season in the Chessy. that we spent more time there than most all cruisers on the trip and then the second year more weeks there.


On arriving in Waterford, NY, we went up the Champlain and on to Ottawa by way of Montreal, then 3 WEEKS to do the 150 miles of the Rideau. Those two waterways are fantastic and one cannot do them and the Erie in one season and clear Chicago by Labor Day.
We wintered the boat several winters in Waterloo, NY, a good place just off the Finger Lakes. Also got to do the Cayouga-Senecal canal as well.
Back in Canada more canal travel and the North Channel and Georgian Bay, WOW. So many anchorages!
Then the length of Lake Huron back to NY.
Get the picture?
We did the Southern end from the south up the Tenn-Tom, Kentucky lakes, Tenn. River and such over two more seasons. While we were at it did the Alabama River to end of navigation and the Arkansas river to its end at Tulsa, Ok. To name a couple.


There is no way to see all there is in one season/year, just cannot be done.
We stored the boat each winter wherever we happened to be, they were not planned in advance.
We always traveled without a schedule as that is, by far, the most DANGEROUS thing that one can have on a boat.
As one said, if someone is to meet you tell them WHERE OR WHEN but not both.


We did more than 9,500 miles on the trip and loved it. We do not do bad weather, period. Twice we were at anchor for 6 days waiting on weather, another time we left our anchorage in the North Channel 3 days in a row and came back in due to weather, made a nice crossing to Drummund Is. on the 4th.


As far as cost, I always treated cruising with the fact that I had the boat, it was paid for, insured and such if I stayed home or cruised so that is not a factor, same with eating meals and such, eat at home or on the cruise. Cruising cost is what you spend OVER THE AMOUNT THAT WOULD BE SPENT AT HOME. Now the cost does not and is not so great.
We anchored about 2/3 of the time, often just off of a marina. Only used a marina when we had to.


About parts, correct we were not crossing oceans, so I had the usual parts on board, all hoses, belts and such and every tool that I could.
Big stuff can be shipped in but I did have handy all phone numbers of supply houses that would have the parts, such as Morris control cables, needed one in Lake Huron and got it overnight from CALIFORNIA on a saturday!


The most important thing is to JUST GO, there is no perfect time and you may not be able later due to health or?
One is only two days from home on the whole trip, by air.


Just go,
CCC
 
drillguy said:
I suggest that when inviting guests aboard for a segment of the trip (or when guests invite themselves aboard:), be sure to make them aware to purchase ticket insurance if the airfare is pricey. The boat only moves when the captain says it moves. Risks should not be taken to get people to the airport on time. Make it clear that if we come up short of your destination, you will be Ubering or taking a bus to get to where you need to be. We didn't have any problems in that department, but everyone knew up front of the possibilities.
Pack light, you don't need half the crap you think you do. Our first trip back home that was scheduled to take care of some medical issues found us renting a car so that we could bring back a load of "stuff" we never should have took but thought we would need.
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Wifey B: The whole subject of having guests is a big topic. It's easy if they're boaters or cruise with you regularly, but a non boater who never cruises requires a bit of education. You also don't know if they get sea sick or not and might want to drug them. :)

Oh and talk about activities. Maybe a lot of walking they're not prepared for or bears in the woods. Just don't assume anything.
 
drillguy said:
I suggest that when inviting guests aboard for a segment of the trip (or when guests invite themselves aboard:), be sure to make them aware to purchase ticket insurance if the airfare is pricey. The boat only moves when the captain says it moves. Risks should not be taken to get people to the airport on time. Make it clear that if we come up short of your destination, you will be Ubering or taking a bus to get to where you need to be. We didn't have any problems in that department, but everyone knew up front of the possibilities....
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Good point! We tell guests when we’re on the move, “you can pick the day or the place” but you can’t pick both. We do our best to be at a predetermined place on a set date but they need to be prepared for a hotel room or a shuttle. It took us a few times of getting beat up by weather or with the added stress of trying to be somewhere on a set date to give our guests a heads up.
 
As a non-American who plans to buy a boat in the US or Canada and do the Loop in stages over 2-3 years (flying in/out of Australia for 3-4 months at a time), I've become conscious of just how many Europeans and Australians are doing or planning to do just this...including a sizable, albeit quiet, group here on TF. So something that addresses the many questions these folks have would be useful, including the extra boat-buying & selling challenges faced by non-Americans; and the mysteries of 'Cruiser Permits' and other border control measures.


And not specific to non-Americans: we see constant recommendations that smaller (32-42') vessels are to be preferred, but how are tenders best stored and launched from boats in this size range without this becoming a real PITA? (OK, I'm showing my ignorance there as my home boat is 57'. I know we'll have a big adjustment to make downsizing.)
 
Aquabelle said:
And not specific to non-Americans: we see constant recommendations that smaller (32-42') vessels are to be preferred, but how are tenders best stored and launched from boats in this size range without this becoming a real PITA? (OK, I'm showing my ignorance there as my home boat is 57'. I know we'll have a big adjustment to make downsizing.)
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Well, I will dissent from the smaller vessels preference. It's like any other boating. We did the loop with a 65' boat that was 69'4" LOA. Now, we generally had a lot of people. However, I see no real negative in a 50-60' boat. It's like picking any boat to liveaboard. You're use to 57'. I'd say 40-50' is likely as small as you would want to go.

I think as far as a seminar too, that's something to be very careful about is expressing opinions as absolute fact. I love Captain John's site but I don't agree with all of his opinions and size and power of boat is somewhere I disagree.

So perhaps a seminar should cover the advantages and disadvantages of different size boats and different speed boats.
 
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Agreed....there is a lot on the Capt John's (and other) "Looper" sites that assume everyone is on asuper tight 'retirement budget'. Nothing wrong with that, but there has to also be a middle ground between a low-budget and a spendthrift cruising model. (and yes, I'm thinking 44-48' will be right for us without feeling we've dropped down too much).
 
BandB's comment about boat length prompts me to throw another shibboleth into the pot: cruising speed. Cap'n John et al are adamant that 7kts is about it. I'd like to understand what sections of the Loop could be run at 14-18 kts (AND is an alternative cruise speed, not WOT). I don't mean along narrow waterways or between close-by gunk-holes or waterside towns...but across lakes or open stretches of larger rivers or ICW. Is this 10%, 30% or ? of the Loop. A fact-based seminar on this issue would be welcome.
 
Aquabelle said:
BandB's comment about boat length prompts me to throw another shibboleth into the pot: cruising speed. Cap'n John et al are adamant that 7kts is about it. I'd like to understand what sections of the Loop could be run at 14-18 kts (AND is an alternative cruise speed, not WOT). I don't mean along narrow waterways or between close-by gunk-holes or waterside towns...but across lakes or open stretches of larger rivers or ICW. Is this 10%, 30% or ? of the Loop. A fact-based seminar on this issue would be welcome.
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We ran most of it at 25-28 knots. Only the canals, Erie and Oswego, have to be at under 10 knots. Moderate speeds for the Illinois and Mississippi. However, you can go any speed on the Great Lakes and on the Coasts you can run outside if you wish. The point is there are so many ways to do it. Now there is a cost involved. But 85% of the loop can be run at 14-18 knots. Just looking at Lake Erie shows the benefit.

We ran the 72 nm from Buffalo to Erie in 3 hours arriving at 10:00 AM.
We ran the 98 nm from Erie to Cleveland in 4 hours arriving before noon.
We ran the 52 nm from Cleveland to Sandusky in 2 1/2 hours arriving at 10:00 AM

Versus 7 knots, we saved 22 hours and picked up the majority of three additional days of sightseeing.

Now, this is not to imply at all that it's right for everyone or even most people, just that it's another way of doing it.
 
"but how are tenders best stored and launched from boats in this size range without this becoming a real PITA?"

The least effort is to bring the tender on board , no hassle in locks or at marinas.

Second choice would be davits , although they will add to LOA so be priced in at marinas , and need to be watched carefully pulling off a lock wall.


In the Bahamas a great dink is useful, on the loop its mostly for dog exercise ashore.
 
Since we are tentatively planning to cruise the loop after we retire, I am very interested in any financial aspects of the trip. Expected fuel expenses, slip fees, winter storage fees, distance/time, maintenance expenses, other fees or taxes we may run into. I know there are his a huge range of expenses depending on boat type, cruiser preferences, etc. But, some rules of thumb would be nice to see.
 
BandB said:
We ran most of it at 25-28 knots. Only the canals, Erie and Oswego, have to be at under 10 knots. Moderate speeds for the Illinois and Mississippi. However, you can go any speed on the Great Lakes and on the Coasts you can run outside if you wish. The point is there are so many ways to do it. Now there is a cost involved. But 85% of the loop can be run at 14-18 knots. Just looking at Lake Erie shows the benefit.

We ran the 72 nm from Buffalo to Erie in 3 hours arriving at 10:00 AM.
We ran the 98 nm from Erie to Cleveland in 4 hours arriving before noon.
We ran the 52 nm from Cleveland to Sandusky in 2 1/2 hours arriving at 10:00 AM

Versus 7 knots, we saved 22 hours and picked up the majority of three additional days of sightseeing.

Now, this is not to imply at all that it's right for everyone or even most people, just that it's another way of doing it.
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Sorry I missed this earlier.

In all fairness, your path missed a significant portion of the what the majority do. While I wouldn't imply that there was anything wrong with your path, it misleads people when 90+% will travel the AICW and you went the ocean instead. Nothing wrong with skipping it as you've seen a lot of it. But prospective Loopers will likely do it, and are not going to travel a lot of it at 14 to 18 knots. Also, something like 60% of those doing the Loop, do portions of the Canadian canals. You're not going to be doing 14 to 18 knots there either. Again not criticizing your path, but most doing the loop will spend a lot more time below 10 knots than you did.

Ted
 
O C Diver said:
Sorry I missed this earlier.

In all fairness, your path missed a significant portion of the what the majority do. While I wouldn't imply that there was anything wrong with your path, it misleads people when 90+% will travel the AICW and you went the ocean instead. Nothing wrong with skipping it as you've seen a lot of it. But prospective Loopers will likely do it, and are not going to travel a lot of it at 14 to 18 knots. Also, something like 60% of those doing the Loop, do portions of the Canadian canals. You're not going to be doing 14 to 18 knots there either. Again not criticizing your path, but most doing the loop will spend a lot more time below 10 knots than you did.

Ted
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Absolutely. For us the loop emphasis was NYC to Mobile, all areas we don't cruise regularly. We cruise the East Coast and Gulf enough to see them other times. Otherwise, we would have spent months on the East Coast, ducking in every 70-100 miles.

I would say this, just talking of the East Coast, which you had also cruised considerably before. If one hasn't cruised that area, I'd suggest a full season or year just on it rather than trying to incorporate it into a loop trip. You need to be on the Erie in May and yet you can't really enjoy the east coast above Norfolk until May. So, you need to cruise the Chesapeake at the same time you would need to enter the Erie. I'd suggest one considering one year doing the East Coast, ending to the south, cruising FL and the Bahamas over the winter and then getting more quickly up to NYC to start through by May.

This reemphasizes that you can't do all the loop in a year or even two years. We do still intend to do the Canadian canals one day. We haven't done the Ohio, the Missouri or the Arkansas. You did Lake Superior as we did. We went to Montreal and did the St. Lawrence this summer, not as part of our loop.

To me, climate is the controlling factor and I feel like you could easily do the summer only portion from NYC to the TN River three or four times and not see it all. Many people here cruise the Chesapeake but fewer hit the Potomac and very few cruise the Delaware. Loopers cut in to NYC. That misses New England entirely. Newport, Nantucket, Martha's Vineyard, Cape Cod, Long Island Sound, Boston, Maine. One could spend months just there.

My post you quoted was responding to a post regarding the possible benefit of speed. As I concluded, "this is not to imply at all that it's right for everyone or even most people, just that it's another way of doing it." We cruised up to 26-28 knots and saw far more than most loopers do. However, we still only saw a small portion of what there is to see. Next time we'll see more but two times won't be enough. I'm not sure there will ever be enough to see all we'd like to.
 
The OP's presentation might already be finalized being only 2 days out... but I'd suggest covering the topic of easing transfer back and forth between US and Canadian waters. There's some interesting options these days like acquiring a NEXUS membership and using the ROAM app by Customs & Border Patrol.

I know there's a few doubters, but I can definitely see the positive aspects of the loop. it gives a lot of retirees (or near-retirees) a cool bucket list objective, exposes you to so many different boating experiences thereby sharpening your nautical skills, let's you see so much of the country.
Also FYI: I think a lot of the questions posed here are answered on the AGLCA website, including things like fuel and cost calculators...
 
As with many threads, this one expanded into areas aside from the OP. BandB and my posts were more directed at potential Loopers outside the country coming to do it. This very likely will be a thread that may continue on past the purpose of the OP. Nothing wrong with that.

Ted
 
Keep in mind that Ted didn't do a textbook loop and we broke every rule of looping. Captain John is one of the old time multi loopers and he shows one way of doing it, but the point is there are hundreds of ways to tailor it to you. We found it to be a wonderful experience, a great way to see so much of the country we hadn't seen.

One thing I do feel is that many loopers are in such a drive to complete the loop they don't see nearly as much as they could. Get off the boat and explore each port you visit. Yes, the scenery you can see from the water is beautiful, but each town has it's own charm. If you're moving every day, you can't experience that part. We moved every other day or every third day most of the loop. Perhaps we had fewer stops than many others but we experienced each place we stopped. We experienced the Motown Museum, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Country Music Hall of Fame, and the Baseball Hall of Fame along the way, just as an example. Some were such a wonderful contrast. You're cruising Lake Erie, you go do some sightseeing the next day and hit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. A different vibe and invigorating. It's interesting too how you enjoy things you might not think you would, up to a point. I was shocked that those who don't have any interest in baseball loved Cooperstown. Then from there it was to the Erie Canal Museum. (Yes these did require a car rental).

I'd advise all loopers to read as much as you can, but then plan it your way for you. Then accept the surprises too as each town has some events during the summer and you'll hit some you love. We hit Cleveland and were there for the night the Cavaliers won the championship. As Golden State fans that wasn't our happiest moment. However, it was special to see a city celebrating, one that hadn't won anything for so long. It was something we didn't anticipate and didn't like how it happened but we're glad we were there for it. Every weekend on the loop you find music festivals or craft fairs or art shows or all the above. What a way to absorb local culture. Then there's just walking the streets of the town and checking out the small shops but mostly meeting a few people. Now something many on here love that we don't is farmer's markets and they're also everywhere along the way.

We were a little scared that we'd built up looping so much in our mind we might be disappointed. We were not. Only disappointment was lack of time. But then that's planned too so we'll want to go again.
 
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