Boat Damaged in Marina Slip

Apologies for the length of this; I think I’m still in shock and it’s helpful to get this in print.

We’re doing the northern part of the loop. This time, it’s mostly a delivery run to get the boat back to our home in Tennessee before winter where we can finish upgrading her. I hope we’ll do it a second time one day and take our time.

Yesterday afternoon, we made an overnight reservation at a marina in upstate NY. After giving the dimensions of our boat (44’ long; 14’ 10” wide and about 5’ draft fully loaded), the woman at the marina told me to “take the first slip on the right” and “tie up on either side.” We elected a port tie since we’d been locking through on that side and the fenders were already deployed.

The slip is a 20’ wide single with a concrete seawall on one side. As we entered in strong, gusting winds, our stern was blown toward the wall. I heard the unmistakable sound of a prop grinding—and then the starboard engine shut down. I measured the depth on the right side of the slip and there is a ledge of gravel and concrete sticking out from the concrete wall at least 8 feet into the slip. Four feet from the wall the depth is about 36 inches. At eight feet, it is just over 50 inches. As I told the marina person, we draw almost 60 inches fully loaded. There are no warning signs or anything to indicate this obstruction. I dove on it to inspect (shore power was not connected and no boats in adjacent slips) and cut my fingers on the jagged edges of the prop.

The girl in the marina office was utterly clueless. I asked her why she put a boat with our draft in a slip that was obstructed along one entire side. She said “other boats” had occupied the slip with no problems. I then asked why the marina map on the wall behind her said in bold, red, underlined letters “BOW IN ONLY. NO SAILBOATS.” She said, “Well, you’re bow-in and you’re not a sailboat.” I asked for a manager; she said he’d left for the day, it was impossible to reach him and she had no idea what to do. I told her I wanted to talk to him asap, left my number and as of this morning have not received a callback.

This morning I’m faced with being towed back through eight locks to have the boat hauled, inspected and the prop trued—again. Oh, yeah; all of this after signing a large check two days ago to have the props trued and shafts aligned. I’m beyond pissed and also wondering what would have happened to our stabilizer if I’d elected a starboard tie.

I want the marina to cover any expense and I’m prepared to sue if they don’t. I filmed the entire area to show the absence of warnings and videoed a witness—who’s willing to testify—taking depth soundings off my swim platform. Also got a photo of the marina map with the warning to employees.

Obviously, I’ll give the manager a chance to make this right, but I’d appreciate any thoughts of how y’all would handle this going forward short of violence.

Sorry to read your story, hope you will sort that out
Good luck.

L

Reaccess your need for a long tow.
Can you turn the shaft by hand?
Were the prop blades significantly bent?
If no I think you can make no wake speed through the locks to a diver or haul out.

Good thoughts, Archie. The prop spins with the engine; I did not try by hand. I cannot tell in the murky water if the blades are noticeably bent. Only way is to sea-trial it.

Ignorant question: can a diver remove a prop to be serviced?

If so, I might ask the marina to bring in someone qualified to do that and verify alignment.

If you have a twin engine boat, there should be no need for a tow. The boat will run just fine on one engine. Just a little more difficult to steer.

A couple of thoughts -

Yes, a diver can certainly pull a prop for you. Every prop strike that I have ever had on my boat has been repaired by a diver. If the boat will run on it's own, even if it is very slow, then you should have no issues getting to a haul out location AFTER you have a diver pull the props.

No sense paying all of that $$ if a diver can take care of you.

You have two engines so making hull speed (or just below) will not be a problem.

If the marina tells you to push a wet rope uphill, you would have better luck just having insurance deal with it. Unless you are a lawyer, by the time you sue somebody for the repairs, your deductible would be covered.

You're going to have an issue with your own admission: "strong, gusting winds, our stern was blown toward the wall. I heard the unmistakable sound of a prop grinding—and then the starboard engine shut down."

Their defense would be that it was an act of nature.

If you can find a diver to pull your prop, I would do that and stay in that marina (in a different slip), on there dime until it's fixed. I certainly wouldn't move my boat before talking to the manager and getting DNR (or whatever governing authority polices those waters) to write a report. Think I would call your insurance broker, explain the situation and ask their recommendation about filing now or waiting to see if the marina will cover the costs.

This is one of those situations where I really prefer having a trusted broker to talk to, versus calling the insurance company.

Ted

The marina manager stopped by and he appears to be a stand-up guy. He said he didn’t realize the ledge stuck out into the slip as far as it does (eight feet before it falls off), but noted that the water is unusually low. He took full responsibility and is having a diver sent to pull the prop and have it repaired. I also plan to have the alignment re-checked. We have shaft savers, so hopefully they worked—we were at idle speed.

I respectfully disagree that a person operating a boat in a slip that has been assigned by a marina representative is somehow liable for hitting an unmarked obstruction. If I provide my boat’s measurements, I shouldn’t have to take physical soundings as I enter the slip. (I did, of course, keep an eye on the depth sounders and we had plenty of water on the port side — beneath the transducers.)

As for going back through eight locks on one engine—no thanks. With the winds on the Erie Canal locks, it can be challenging with two engines.

Greetings,
Mr. K9. "You're going to have an issue with your own admission" On the contrary. IF the shallow ledge had NOT been there, any docking incident that caused damage as a result of "gusty winds" would have been solely Mr. 99's problem. It is the unmentioned LEDGE that is the issue. The marina is completely at fault IMO. Sorry to hear of your misfortune Mr. 99.


Mr. 99. Just read your last post. I hope it all works out for you.

Thanks, RTF and all. I’ll update with the outcome.

Geez, sorry to hear about this.

I greatly prefer to avoid slips next to shore. I always worry about MY ability to avoid drifting/overshooting or whatever. Docking is challenging enough without adding underwater obstructions to the mix.

Sounds like they knew something was unusual enough about that slip to make that note. Good you got a picture. Fingers crossed for you that the damage is limited to just the prop!

My advice here was going to be to wait for the manager and see what he does before you get too upset about it, or even consider legal recourse. I always start with sugar before I go to vinegar, if you treat most people with respect they will usually reciprocate.


Not much point in talking to the part timer (?) behind the desk if she is not authorized to make decisions other than to tell her what happened and ask for the manager.


Sound like it is going to work out OK.



By the way, I hit some underwater rocks a few years back and bent the heck out of both of my props. It didn't foul up my alignment or bend a shaft so I had them pulled by a diver, repaired, tuned and replaced.

Dougcole said:

My advice here was going to be to wait for the manager and see what he does before you get too upset about it, or even consider legal recourse. I always start with sugar before I go to vinegar, if you treat most people with respect they will usually reciprocate.


Not much point in talking to the part timer (?) behind the desk if she is not authorized to make decisions other than to tell her what happened and ask for the manager.


Sound like it is going to work out OK.

By the way, I hit some underwater rocks a few years back and bent the heck out of both of my props. It didn't foul up my alignment or bend a shaft so I had them pulled by a diver, repaired, tuned and replaced.

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Thanks, Doug. I’m far from litigious, but I was getting a decidedly uncomfortable feeling from the marina help—one a part timer and the other a full-timer—that I spoke to yesterday. The manager could not be more accommodating. He’s paying to have the techs who aligned us come up and reinspect everything as well as for the prop work and the diver. The only thing he can’t replace is the good weather window we’re missing today.

I'm glad to hear that the manager is apparently trying to make things right! If everything turns out well, be sure to give him and the marina "props" (pun intended) for their efforts.

As a newbie, non-boat owner, what is a ball park cost for these repairs?

Polestar said:

I'm glad to hear that the manager is apparently trying to make things right! If everything turns out well, be sure to give him and the marina "props" (pun intended) for their efforts.

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Definitely.

Glad to hear that the manager is taking care of it. I would still notify your insurance company immediately since there could be problems beyond what they find now. I would get it on record so if you have a problem a day or so after you leave this marina your insurance company can fight the issue for you. Good luck.

Sounds like that slip should be limited to shallow draft outboards. Compounding that, the manager provided poor instruction regarding the slip for low level help, so I can’t give him too many points, but it sounds like he’s stepping up to repair the damage. Glad it’s working out about as well as a bad situation can.

PD Monkey said:

As a newbie, non-boat owner, what is a ball park cost for these repairs?

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Depends on the range of damage. If it's just some nicks on the prop it might only be a few hundred dollars. But if there was enough force to deflect the shaft then it could rack up thousands. Remove/realign/replace the shaft, strut (and bearing), through-hull cutlass bearing, etc. None of which comes without pulling the boat from the water and doing the work on the hard.

It's valuable to know your boat's standard levels of noise and vibration. Doesn't take much to bring about a detectable amount of change, but you have to know that's an important thing to keep in mind.

Angus, sorry to hear about your issues. I've twice had props removed by a diver without issues. You are fortunate on one hand that it's shallow behind your boat because that gives the diver somewhere to stand or sit while he works on your boat.


I have about 12'-15' beneath the boat. Getting the prop off was not an issue but required two people on the finger docks with lines tied to the blades of the prop to keep it from falling to the bottom. Once the diver slid the prop off the shaft the weight was easily handled by the two guys with lines.


Getting the prop back on presented a different problem because the diver had no place to stand. We suspended an aluminum extension ladder beneath the boat, adjusted to the proper height so the diver could stand on it while he worked, and the ladder was held in place by lines up to the boat cleats. It took awhile to get the ladder positioned properly by it made the job go more quickly because the diver had a fairly solid place to stand.

Angus, I’ll add my sympathy to the others. The marina really screwed up.

Despite the manager trying to make it right, I think there may be some value in contacting your insurance company ASAP anyway. I’d be interested in hearing the opinions of others, but I’ve always had it drummed into me to let my own insurance company know about an incident right away even if someone else is liable.

I've also always heard to contact one's own insurance in case the other side doesn't live up to their obligation.

I'm glad the marina manager is stepping up as I totally feel it's their responsibility. Make sure you have fully sea trialed the boat before you sign any type release. He's doing the right thing and until they rectify the slip problem should close that slip completely as it's still apparently worsening.

Also, for the marina manager to be impossible to reach in the event of an emergency is unacceptable. You might ask what they would do if the marina caught on fire? Wait to see it on the news?

RTF is on the money. Instructing you to tie either side is the clincher,clearly the slip did not allow that. Glad to hear the marina is doing the right thing, but report(not claim) with your insurer.

The marina manager did step up. He hired an excellent diver and paid for the specialist who had just aligned our running gear to drive up to supervise and check everything out. The diver had the prop back on this morning and we sea-trialed before noon. Best of all, a weather window opened up and we were able to cross Lake Ontario this afternoon; we’re tied up at the dock in Loyalist Cove, ON.

While this was a frustrating experience, there was also a positive side. It’s such a pleasure when you realize that there are still good people out there. This could have gone south in any number of ways, but the manager could not have been more helpful and accommodating. When I said he took 100% responsibility, he didn’t hesitate at anything I asked for. He was at the boat helping the diver all afternoon and we had some nice talks. And, in what I believe showed true class, he didn’t throw his employee under the bus for her mistake. I do agree he should have been available to talk to the day it happened, when I was stressing over the possibility of bent shafts or a wrecked transmission, but that’s my only quibble.

As always, I appreciate all the great feedback on this forum. I did report this to my insurance company—not as a claim—so if anything turns up down the road they have the history.

Next stop: Trent-Severn.

I've said this before but bears repeating here. A business and it's management shows their true colors, not when everything goes right, but when things go wrong. This one certainly came through. I know you may not want to publicize it here, but if not, would you please sent the marina information in private as I'd like to sent them a note acknowledging myself. I think it's good for them to know good word also gets around and others recognize their fine response.

I also applaud you in that you didn't start this thread by blasting them publicly but you chose to keep their name private and give them the opportunity to respond. You chose to calm the situation rather than inflame it when you had the choice to go either way.

Ian, I have just picked up on this thread. What a calamity! Here's hoping you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction.

BandB said:

I've said this before but bears repeating here. A business and it's management shows their true colors, not when everything goes right, but when things go wrong. This one certainly came through. I know you may not want to publicize it here, but if not, would you please sent the marina information in private as I'd like to sent them a note acknowledging myself. I think it's good for them to know good word also gets around and others recognize their fine response.

I also applaud you in that you didn't start this thread by blasting them publicly but you chose to keep their name private and give them the opportunity to respond. You chose to calm the situation rather than inflame it when you had the choice to go either way.

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Thanks, I think this was a lapse on their part, so I didn’t want to embarrass them publicly by outing them. I will, however, leave positive reviews on AC and elsewhere, because the marina was also pleasant, convenient to shopping and spotless.

Moonstruck said:

Ian, I have just picked up on this thread. What a calamity! Here's hoping you get everything sorted out to your satisfaction.

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Thanks a lot, Don. I think all’s we’ll that ends that way. . See my previous post.

Seems to me:

"Bow in Only and No Sailboats" largely printed regarding that slip for marine operator to notice is a slam dunk as to who's fault it is.

Every year before renewal of umbrella liability coverage, the State Farm insurance agent always inquires whether I've made an insurance claim (covered by BoatUSA) regarding my boat. Hate to think how much my insurance rates would increase if I'd had a claim.

Yikes, I bet my total insurance costs (medical, home, automobile, boat, and general liability) far exceed the cost of food (solid and liquid) for me, even with with no claims except those that have injured mine thirteen years ago.

I agree with BandB that both you and the marina took the high road and dealt with a bad situation in an admirable fashion.
I wonder if you would be willing to identify the marina so others can avoid another incident.
I'm interested in that I travel the NY canals and might guess where this might be but it would only be a guess.