10 drunken people ejected from a 21 foot boat

boatruptcy said:

Not sure where you're from, but lack of enforcement is not the issue...and neither is punishment. Go sit in a courtroom for a day, you do not get out of dui charges, ever. And enforcement is reactionary by nature, however, there are plenty of proactive measures put in place like sobriety checkpoints and enforcement programs.

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Those who end up in court are predominantly ones who either had an accident or were stopped for some unrelated reason. They were not stopped through an enforcement plan aimed at DUI and certainly few are on the water. A very simple thing would be to check everyone leaving a bar at 2:00 AM but that type enforcement has previously been ruled illegal.

As to not getting out of DUI charges, people are given the opportunity to get those charges delayed and/or removed all the time. There are attorneys who are pros in getting people out of DUI's for many reasons. The poor never get out of them but the wealthy do all the time. Furthermore, our penalties are very weak compared to other countries. In France, a .08 is an aggravated criminal offense with 3 years license suspension and 4500 euro fine and up to two years in prison. Most states don't suspend the first time more than 90 days.

Here are a couple of attorney blurbs:

our firm has the experience and training to pick apart the State’s case whether based on an intoxilyzer sample, blood test, or mere standardized field sobriety test (SFST).​

No DUI arrest is perfect. DUI law Enforcement officers are human. They make mistakes. DUI Breath Test Operators are human. They also make mistakes. DUI Breath Test Inspectors are human. They too can make mistakes. The DUI breath test machine isn’t perfect. It often makes mistakes and in some circumstances can be flat out wrong. Our Group knows Orlando and West Palm Beach DUI cases. Our Group knows the mistakes that occur in DUI cases and we will expose those mistakes to the judge and jury​

Firms like the ones above keep 90% of their clients driving.

While I do not drive while drinking, I have been driving for 32 years and never been stopped for a DUI check. Never a checkpoint. Nothing.

I have often times seen LEO's at the boat ramp at the end of the day. Its not an official "checkpoint" but they are walking around talking to lots of boaters. I am sure they aren't just trying to be friendly.

Well of course an attorney is going to advertise he can help get you out of the charge you are hiring him to work on, what does that prove? Like I stated earlier, go sit in the actual courtroom for one day instead of looking for blogs and you will see these offenses are treated more harshly than even domestic violence and a lot of felonies.



The pressure applied to courts (and rightfully so in my opinion) from groups such as MADD and others is overwhelming and judges and prosecutors feel the weight. Again, go see for yourself, it's free and open to sit for the day, it will change your perspective.



I'm sorry but your personal experience isn't a big enough sample size to broadly paint all jurisdictions with the same brush, and I don't think our society is to blame for the self destructive behavior we see here. Checkpoints are out there, they happen all the time. Stopping all patrons leaving a bar is no simple or constitutional task.

BandB said:

Firms like the ones above keep 90% of their clients driving.

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This is patently false, show me any metric you have on this. You can't just assert something as fact because it supports your opinion.

boatruptcy said:

Checkpoints are out there, they happen all the time.

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How many times have you been stopped at checkpoints?

BandB said:

How many times have you been stopped at checkpoints?

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Twice, but my sample size is just as small as yours and my personal interactions are about as relevant as jack crap. I have better things to do than fight an internet battle about whatever, but have some facts before you just throw out such a broad generalization.

Just a few numbers, mostly not current. Connecticut introduced a program allowing dismissal upon completion of a course and in 2011 had a dismissal rate of 70%. Washington has a dismissal rate of 32%. Most states are more in the 10-15% range and some have very few, but dismissal is the first attempt of an attorney. It's often done with agreements for courses and maintaining a clean record.

Then it comes to convictions. Some states have conviction rates as low as 65-70%. Others are as high as 85-95%.

In Florida, in 2017, there were 43,899 DUI tickets issued. There were 24,344 convictions. That is only a 55% conviction rate. Barely half. Those without the money or unwilling to spend the money as well as repeat offenders were convicted. However, I have no problem believing that some attorneys had very low conviction rates, as low as 10%. If you can afford the costs, you do have an excellent change of getting either a dismissal or a deferred adjudication or a non guilty. It's very unfortunate that we have two levels of justice, one for the poor and one for the wealthy. Oh, and those who have jury trials have a greater chance of getting off than those before judges.

Florida has an ignition interlock program on the second conviction. Why not the first? Or why not on all cars? Breathalyzers are easy and cheap so to install systems on all new cars would add very little to the price. It would inconvenience us when starting the car but perhaps worth it.

Before you think how bad Florida's conviction rate is, Georgia has a 36% conviction rate based on 10 years data through 2015. Fulton County, GA (Atlanta) had only a 24.4% conviction rate.

I stand by my initial statements as to the lousy job we're doing with enforcement, and in general with reducing driving under the influence.

boatruptcy said:

Twice, but my sample size is just as small as yours and my personal interactions are about as relevant as jack crap. I have better things to do than fight an internet battle about whatever, but have some facts before you just throw out such a broad generalization.

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Facts just posted for FL and GA.

Ha, I haven't read your response yet but you are definitely that guy that can never be wrong I see.


I live in this world, I have more first hand experience and more statistical data than you would ever be interested in seeing so forgive me if your google search does not impress.

BandB said:

Firms like the ones above keep 90% of their clients driving.

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I'm still waiting on the stats to back this up, oh that's right you literally made this up. And you are omitting a very important piece in your "stats" about FL, you fail to mention the pleas, guilty's and lessors that result in license revocation.



I think I'm done here, have a great day.

Here's an example of somebody hopefully thinking right.

My wife's cousin's child will be down here in a couple of weeks as part of a "Girls' weekend" for a friend who is getting married - ten young women. Wife's cousin, not realizing we have switched to this smaller Pilot, asked if we could take them out to the barrier island as part of their weekend activities. We responded "no way" in this boat and offered the idea of them renting a 12-pax pontoon boat with wife and me as the "boat people" in charge of the boat or escort with our boat if one of the ladies has experience and can run the pontoon boat or just take the large pontoon ferry boat leaving us out of it altogether.

Have no final decision back from them yet, but the tenor of responses so far indicates some careful thought going into this. I know none of the people involved and don't know if adult beverages will be involved, but if I am driving either the pontoon my boat, I will not be allowing anybody obviously inebriated aboard.

Hopefully,they are planning a nice and sane getaway to the island.

I have a comment on the idea of preventing drunk driving, either on the road or on the water. I see many cases hereabouts of drunks causing harmful accidents (we are a big time vacation destination where tons of drinking happens), and I'll be dogged if many of the terrible messes we see on TV news don't involve a criminal driver who was driving with a suspended license as a result of previous misdeeds. Those people will never obey the law and will drive until destruction, breathalyzer devices or not. I would stand them up against a wall and shoot them, but then that's just me.

I do not serve alcohol while away from the DOCK. There may be an emergency and I do not need a bunch of drunks who cannot follow directions on my boat.

Jmho

I think nature has a great rule,it is called "Natural Selection". There is another rule long forgotten by lawyers and do gooders, it is called "taking Responsibility for your own actions ". If you keep ignoring the second rule, the first will take place! EO!

To here are a LOT of drinkers who don't get drunk just because they have a drink or two.

Know thine enemy, whomever or whatever it is.

Some people are useless or dangerous stone cold sober..... Pick your crews and even captains accordingly.

If you want to see various agencies checking boaters for DUI come to the Columbus Day Regatta near Elliot Key. I have even been checked and I don’t drink.

You should observe the Spanish in August. They would squeeze 20 into that boat and not a lifejacket to be seen! They reckon they can all swim....

It’s about 10K to fight the dui ticket in this neck of the woods. Uber is the best thing going for drinking and driving.

The lady in this case, is the Capt. She is 100% responsible. The clients , friends, etc. are under the captains charge. If the boat was 21feet, with 20 passengers. It was probably over loaded also.
I had 1500 passengers a day. With liquor on board. If I had 1 passenger above the observed limit, I had the taxi ( USCG ) pick them up. On a lake, sheriff Dept.

Unfortunately if you have the money a person can buy a plastic boat, no real training. A simple short test, keys and away you go.
Very sad.
If they spent 1 month on the water off shore or large lake doing night duty, they might get it.
Well, happy chugging to all.

Then there's always a flip side. Flip side - overloaded boat. HA.

Not specific to this incident:

In younger years I have been out on overloaded boats with alcohol involved. July 4th comes to mind. A drunk operator might be relieved by a sober stander-by to avoid an arrest. So you got a squeaky-clean little wheel holder and a boatload of loud, obnoxious drunks and a whole lot of gray area.

Speeding during rush-hour is not lawful and yet people die every day on the road. Those gray areas will get you.

What is an accident anyway? Who is responsible for their own acts? Based on who they are, these days it seems some people can be held responsible only for good things. They used to talk about a sequence of incidents that led you past a point of no return.

Was the boat to blame or the bottle? The operator of the boat or the operator of the bottle? Which sip, when, by whom, was the point of no return?