Wakemakers

One word.........PAINTGUN

ssobol said:

IME Audi drivers are by far the worst...

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"Four zeroes on the grill; one behind the wheel"

--A Man Called Ove

"But ignorance abounds in both camps..."


Perhaps but the stick , computer sideways docking system was not invented for sail boats.

So all those "sailor wannabees" have no excuses then.....

Molly said:

One word.........PAINTGUN

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And just what do you suggest doing with your PAINTGUN recommendation? Are you suggesting using such device to property damage boats whose wakes cause annoyance?

foggysail said:

And just what do you suggest doing with your PAINTGUN recommendation? Are you suggesting using such device to property damage boats whose wakes cause annoyance?

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Hit da captain - LOL

Dawdler said:

I just logged in to this thread about wakers and would appreciate some advice. I try to be a considerate boater but sometimes find myself conflicted about the right thing to do. This last weekend I was returning from a SF Bay to Stockton cruise. The trip from Stockton CA to Sausalito is about 90 miles down the San Joaquin river. I know that I am responsible for my wake, and don't want to cause discomfort or injury to others. However, last weekend I found fishermen in flat bottom "bass boats" about every quarter mile. I cruise at about 9 knots and at that speed create a wake that will rock small boats. But if I reduce speed to idle for every fisherman in the deep water channel it will extend my trip to maybe 11 hours instead of 8 hours. I found myself thinking that if the fishermen didn't want to be rocked maybe they should be in one of the numerous side sloughs rather than the main channel,but clearly this thinking may be arrogant. I would appreciate your insight as to the proper course of action: does one try to slow for every boat, or is it OK to expect others to accept moderate wave conditions from vessels in transit? I do want to do the right thing. Appreciate any advice/suggestions.

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Even in my 6 knot boat I slow for some boats.
But re the fishermen you talk about I be think’in if they insist in fishing where the big boys are they should be prepared for the wakes that are standard fare for the bigger boats. However plowing along at 9 knots w most trawlers will make what I’d call an excessive wake. I don’t think the fishermen should have to deal w that .. or any other small boats. From the post you made it seems the San Joaquin River is a congested waterway. In congested waterways slowing to 6 knots should be a given.
When I see kayakers I slow a bit to 5.5 knots just because they may be beginners and would be terrified by my small wake. But out on the sound I make no such assumptions and continue at 6 knots. However w a bigger boat I would slow much more.
To get to reality we should have other opinions of those familiar w the river. Like probably Mark w his Coot that is good at throwing a wake.

One advantage of a six-knot boat is that one doesn't have to make a significant drop in speed to be wake-friendly.

When on the San Joaquin, as in similar waters, I often need to make a 60-degree turn into the wakes of faster boats.

I can't count the number of times I've tried to call a slower boat in front of me and propose a passing scenario. Mostly sailboats, sadly. Just last week, I called the sailboat in front of me to arrange passing. They did turn around and see me, but they did not answer the radio. I waited for them to clear the last marker leaving a marina, and in 15 feet of water, I put it on plane, passing them. I'm sure they cussed me, but they were doing 7 knots under power and there is no way I could give them a slow pass. Most trawlers I see do reply on the radio and we work things out. Is my experience that sailors are less likely to answer the radio different than yours?

I can count on just two fingers of boats asking about their proposed pass (Three Jeans [homeport Pittsburg] and FlyWright [homeport Vallejo].

Sailboats don't do radio. Honk your horn to say which side you'll pass. (Sailboaters brag they are more knowledgeable than power boaters, and will know the signal's meaning, but do not count on it.)

markpierce said:

I can count on two fingers of boats asking about their proposed pass.
....

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Sometimes I signal passing wakers with one finger. And the wave of a camera.

markpierce said:

I can count on just two fingers of boats asking about their proposed pass (Three Jeans [homeport Pittsburg] and FlyWright [homeport Vallejo].

Sailboats don't do radio. Honk your horn to say which side you'll pass. (Sailboaters brag they are more knowledgeable than power boaters, and will know the signal's meaning, but do not count on it.)

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At first I smiled and agreed with you Mark.

But then I figured that sailboaters being so much smarter than powerboaters, would know that us powerboats don't know the whistle signals so they will still ignore us and just assume the horn blowing is to say hello.

Nomad Willy said:

Even in my 6 knot boat I slow for some boats.
But re the fishermen you talk about I be think’in if they insist in fishing where the big boys are they should be prepared for the wakes that are standard fare for the bigger boats. However plowing along at 9 knots w most trawlers will make what I’d call an excessive wake. I don’t think the fishermen should have to deal w that .. or any other small boats. From the post you made it seems the San Joaquin River is a congested waterway. In congested waterways slowing to 6 knots should be a given.
When I see kayakers I slow a bit to 5.5 knots just because they may be beginners and would be terrified by my small wake. But out on the sound I make no such assumptions and continue at 6 knots. However w a bigger boat I would slow much more.
To get to reality we should have other opinions of those familiar w the river. Like probably Mark w his Coot that is good at throwing a wake.

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The “It’s okay to drown them in deeper water” doctrine?

The only times I've tried whistle signals, I've gotten the finger in reply. They think you are just honking at them. I don't generally use sound signals in passing situations as virtually zero recreational boaters understand them.

sawdustdad said:

The only times I've tried whistle signals, I've gotten the finger in reply. They think you are just honking at them. I don't generally use sound signals in passing situations as virtually zero recreational boaters understand them.

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It's amazing how simply being nice can work wonders!!

I've found [while approaching a boat to pass] that the meaningless yet catchy horn "beeper" tune of...

beep [space] beep, beep, beep beeeeep [space] beep beep!

And a friendly wave as we pass at reasonable speed works wonders.

Some times while broadside [especially if they are smiling or friendly waving] I use the megaphone to say... "Wishing you a fine day"!


If they don't get the point; and, are frowning or otherwise. My last megaphone broadcast is: "Best Wishes"!

Art said:

It's amazing how simply being nice can work wonders!!

I've found [while approaching a boat to pass] that the meaningless yet catchy horn "beeper" tune of...

beep [space] beep, beep, beep beeeeep [space] beep beep!

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Is the tune "Shave and a haircut, two bits!"? Sounds like a cute idea but could be misinterpreted.

If overtaking in narrow channel or no wake zone I'll usually give the horn signal for such, but I keep the blasts very short. I do this, mainly, to make sure they know I'm there. Also, the short blasts aren't blasts at all, more like "toots".

rclarke246 said:

Is the tune "Shave and a haircut, two bits!"? Sounds like a cute idea but could be misinterpreted.

If overtaking in narrow channel or no wake zone I'll usually give the horn signal for such, but I keep the blasts very short. I do this, mainly, to make sure they know I'm there. Also, the short blasts aren't blasts at all, more like "toots".

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I guess that is the name of the well recognized short horn beep [or toot] "friendly communication" tune.

Two short blasts are always good for passing on the lead boat's port side.

If someone misinterprets the friendly communication tune... that's called... tough shat! Megaphones also work well for "friendly" [or, otherwise] communications if the boat being passed [at a reasonable speed] is not available on the radio and its captain or passengers are not in too good a mood.

I would get tired of using the horn on hundreds of boats a day.....

psneeld said:

I would get tired of using the horn on hundreds of boats a day.....

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"Hundreds" a day??? Wow! Busy guy!!

We enjoyed sailing for 25+ years and continue for the most part traveling at almost sailboat speed in our powerboat. There are exceptions for our low speed such as sea and weather conditions along with areas where the current is strong.

I believe too many are too sensitive to wakes!!! I remember a recent occasion when I was the recipient of the one finger wave passing through Wood’s Hole against a 5-6K current. Tough! I have no intention of stalling my vessel to accommodate one come at me who enjoys the benefits of the ongoing current.

On open waters there is usually plenty of time to adjust one’s course to avoid a close passage. But sailboats, at least around here are many times adamant to maintain their course whether on sail or power. I always try to give away the so called right of way and done so even back in my sailing days.

Call it what you want, but when in open waters expect what you get and try to maintain safety.

foggysail said:

We enjoyed sailing for 25+ years and continue for the most part traveling at almost sailboat speed in our powerboat. There are exceptions for our low speed such as sea and weather conditions along with areas where the current is strong.

I believe too many are too sensitive to wakes!!! I remember a recent occasion when I was the recipient of the one finger wave passing through Wood’s Hole against a 5-6K current. Tough! I have no intention of stalling my vessel to accommodate one come at me who enjoys the benefits of the ongoing current.

On open waters there is usually plenty of time to adjust one’s course to avoid a close passage. But sailboats, at least around here are many times adamant to maintain their course whether on sail or power. I always try to give away the so called right of way and done so even back in my sailing days.

Call it what you want, but when in open waters expect what you get and try to maintain safety.

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"Here lies the body of one Michael O'Day
He died defending his right-of-way
He was right, dead right, as he sailed along...
But, he's just as dead as if he were wrong!"

foggysail said:

We enjoyed sailing for 25+ years and continue for the most part traveling at almost sailboat speed in our powerboat. There are exceptions for our low speed such as sea and weather conditions along with areas where the current is strong.

I believe too many are too sensitive to wakes!!! I remember a recent occasion when I was the recipient of the one finger wave passing through Wood’s Hole against a 5-6K current. Tough! I have no intention of stalling my vessel to accommodate one come at me who enjoys the benefits of the ongoing current.

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Although Rule 9 and the citation regarding operation with a following current apply to Western Rivers, the intent can be applied to many situations where a following current impedes the maneuverability of the downbound vessel. I think there could be a strong case made that the vessel with the following current certainly doesn't enjoy any "benefit" when it comes to maneuverability.

Perhaps the single finger wave had something to do with that?

Art said:

"Hundreds" a day??? Wow! Busy guy!!

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Typical Eastern ICW day....

And please stop reciting the ridiculous and incorrect law of tonnage rules.

The rules work if applied correctly, not the random zigzagging of people following rhymes not rules...

psneeld said:

Typical Eastern ICW day....

And please stop reciting the ridiculous and incorrect law of tonnage rules.

The rules work if applied correctly, not the random zigzagging of people following rhymes not rules...

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Back in "the day"... mid to late 1960's... LI inner channels became so crowded with all sizes of boats [small ob's to 65' cruising-monsters] that it was like driving a car on Southern State Parkway during a hot summer weekend day. I used to have a ball getting airborne... jumping all sizes of wakes... in my 13'3" Boston Whaler with 40 hp Johnson. Some of the boat owner wives would shake their fist at me. Soooo ...I'd usually turn around and jump their big wake again - sporting a big grin, of course!!

There was little to NO concern given as to wake conditions. Everybody simply learned how to deal with it all and we all went on our own merry ways!

Zachs Bay, Gilgo Beach [garbage cove], Short Beach and other secluded anchor-out haunts would get so very crowed every summer weekend.

I left that area in 1969. Have no idea how it is now; except some Google items I've opened.

Back then my folks would sometimes be in a Power Squadron raft-up that had up to 40 +/- boats. There would be an actual semi circle of boats [stern to stern] created with many anchors set. I often took additional anchors out in my Whaler for more settings after the raft-up was already in place.

Now, please understand, back then the heads of nearly all boats was direct flush overboard. Those huge, stern-facing-stern semicircle raft-ups would create a virtual "pool" in the middle. Let your mind wander... swimming was at your own risk!

At night we almost always left the raft-up and anchored on our own.

Maerin said:

Although Rule 9 and the citation regarding operation with a following current apply to Western Rivers, the intent can be applied to many situations where a following current impedes the maneuverability of the downbound vessel. I think there could be a strong case made that the vessel with the following current certainly doesn't enjoy any "benefit" when it comes to maneuverability.

Perhaps the single finger wave had something to do with that?

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In the case of Woods Hole, as referenced from the previous quote.... I just went through there and that particular example is a good one. I misjudged the current in Nanatucket sound and ran 2 knots slower than expected. Therefore, based on my departure time from Nantucket I arrived at Woods Hole after high tide. I had to run up to 2900 rpm to maintain 4.5 kts against the opposing tide.

In this area, there are no "No Wake" signs. At the same time I was passing through, I was passed from behind by an outgoing high-speed ferry on plane doing 20+ kts.

The reaction of the other individual about encountering a wake in an area that allows wake is simply ridiculous.

Art said:

It's amazing how simply being nice can work wonders!!

I've found [while approaching a boat to pass] that the meaningless yet catchy horn "beeper" tune of...

beep [space] beep, beep, beep beeeeep [space] beep beep!

And a friendly wave as we pass at reasonable speed works wonders.

Some times while broadside [especially if they are smiling or friendly waving] I use the megaphone to say... "Wishing you a fine day"!


If they don't get the point; and, are frowning or otherwise. My last megaphone broadcast is: "Best Wishes"!

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Agree being nice is the thing to do. Problem is that I can't pass a sailboat running 6 or 8 knots without throwing a wake. I'm either running 8 knots or 19 knots plus. In order to pass them without waking them, they need to slow to 4 knots so I can pass at 7 or 8 knots. The only way this can happen is if they answer the radio. Or are savvy enough to understand this protocol and slow preemptively in anticipation of my passing, a rare occurrence.

I tell passing go fast boats stay on plane, it causes less wake action if condition allow and is much preferred. In narrow waterways safety dictates a slow pass, if the other boat doesn’t respond to calls passing at a greater speed is all you can do. What I don’t understand is wake makers in wide open channels heading over to pass close, “ they noeth not there fathers” !

Some days I wished that I had a “Wiley Coyote “ sign. “Yes I have a VHF radio “ and on the flip side “Channel 13 please “

As I previously noted, I don't see what the fuss is about, but is what it is. Got hit with a monster sporty wake a few weeks ago as he was throttling up to get out of the of main channel. I know most of the boats in my area, and this guy may be the biggest SF around. As we all know, the sport fishers are heading out in the early am to the fishing grounds in the Summer. I don't begrudge them for that. My aft door (which was repaired exactly one week prior) came out of the friction catch and wrecked the door latch, including some exterior fiberglass damage. My bad for not turning more in to it. It was 5 am and I was still sleepy, on AP, and thought - Hmm, this won't be too bad, I have the Seakeeper on. Lesson learned. Edit, he also spilled my damn coffee, but I made some more.

Thank you for pointing that out. In general terms, one cannot compare the average SeaRay driver with a sailor of a comparable sized vessel. There is no comparison. Having cone from a power boating environment many years ago and getting involved in sailing I was truly amazed at how much I thought I knew but really didn't. I started to learn when I started sailing!