USCG fuel tank regulation for pressure testing

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Instead of raising the fuel fill cap, we cut out the deck for a 6 inch bronze deck plate and lowered the fuel fill below the plate.

A std 2 inch pipe cap , with 1/8 inch hole drilled would not leak, even if the deck plate were lost.

No toe stubbing.
 
I make sure the screw down filler cap's "O" ring is in good condition and liberally apply Vaseline Jelly to the ring's seating area at each fill-up. Once screwed tight the jelly's "squeeze-out" around seam is swiped clean with paper towel or fuel dock's overflow rag. With flush to deck filler cap screwed tight compressed Vaseline Jelly on the "O" ring creates a lasting total seal ... i.e. no water or air leak through fill pipe.


Fast / Ezie Pizie / Cost Affective / Always Remains Successful
 
Art said:
I make sure the screw down filler cap's "O" ring is in good condition and liberally apply Vaseline Jelly to the ring's seating area at each fill-up. Once screwed tight the jelly's "squeeze-out" around seam is swiped clean with paper towel or fuel dock's overflow rag. With flush to deck filler cap screwed tight compressed Vaseline Jelly on the "O" ring creates a lasting total seal ... i.e. no water or air leak through fill pipe.


Fast / Ezie Pizie / Cost Affective / Always Remains Successful
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The Perko EPA cap has a big oring. When you tighten the cap it seals well and then clicks free, just like your car fill cap. Fits into a recess in the filler.
 
FF said:
Instead of raising the fuel fill cap, we cut out the deck for a 6 inch bronze deck plate and lowered the fuel fill below the plate.

A std 2 inch pipe cap , with 1/8 inch hole drilled would not leak, even if the deck plate were lost.

No toe stubbing.
Click to expand...

Will not work for gasoline. The fuel vapors would kill you.

How about diesel fuel vapors? Can you ever get a whiff of diesel fume in the boat?
 
sdowney717 said:
Will not work for gasoline. The fuel vapors would kill you.

How about diesel fuel vapors? Can you ever get a whiff of diesel fume in the boat?
Click to expand...

I've been in diesel engine compartments and full-on diesel engine rooms where the odor of old diesel fuel makes me want to gag.

Smelly old diesel may not be too relevant regarding explosion chance but its odor can sure smell like hell. :nonono:

One thing about gasoline powered boats... you better NOT smell the gas - at all! That absolute requirement usually keeps gas boat engine compartments smelling quite nice. :thumb:
 
Art said:
I've been in diesel engine compartments and full-on diesel engine rooms where the odor of old diesel fuel makes me want to gag.

Smelly old diesel may not be too relevant regarding explosion chance but its odor can sure smell like hell. :nonono:

One thing about gasoline powered boats... you better NOT smell the gas - at all! That absolute requirement usually keeps gas boat engine compartments smelling quite nice. :thumb:
Click to expand...

Absolutely agree. Maybe it would help to run the bilge blowers and air it out.
 
I found the pressure relief fuel caps from attwood, this kind does not use a carbon canister. They have caps that require a carbon canister, I recommend you do not bother with the added expense, although the EPA would like you to capture all vapor emissions!, I do believe that compromises the sealed system idea as the carbon canister sits in the vent line exposed to the air.

Deckfills for Pressure Relief Systems : Attwood Marine

The fuel demand valve I used was not tank integrated, I used the model for outboard motors. My old tank could not support an integrated tank fuel demand valve, (from attwood) and it was simple to just install right at the tank inline with the hose. And the price was right compared to the Perko valve which might have screwed int the tank, but then have to mess around with pickup tube length.

Marine Fuel Demand Valve, Boat Fuel Demand Valve : Attwood Marine : Attwood Marine

The other mod was to insert this one way valve into the fill hose, an anti well back valve.
It works to prevent liquid fuel from splashing when refueling or hitting the cap.
I tested the valve and it easily passes fuel. Mine sits about a foot down in the hose, It just slips into the hose.

http://www.discountmarinesupplies.c...U47_m3MWEXK-YCaTcIwrnynznO_hKLxkaAungEALw_wcB

So doing this your fuel does not rot, absorb moisture, go stale.
You eliminate the overboard wide open to the air vent.

If you overfill the fuel will come back up to the fill by way of the vent, just like on your car and shut off the fuel dispenser nozzle.

They do sell a valve (fuel limit vent valve) that screws into the tank vent that when liquid fuel hits it, the backup of fuel in the fill hose shuts off the fuel dispenser nozzle which leaves a little more air in the tank than if you do not have it. that air space is called 'ullage'. I thought about getting one, but did not. Has not been a problem.

If the marina has a fuel sensing nozzle, it will detect when tank is full and shut itself off. When I first got boat, and filled up at Salt Ponds Marina, I did not know their fuel dispenser nozzle did not sense a full tank. That was back in year 2000.
So if they don't have that, you got to be very careful when fueling up. You would think a fancy marina would have decent modern equipment. just imagine if all gas stations did not have such a nozzle, customers lock on the handle, and it just keeps pumping fuel after the tank is full flooding the ground with gasoline..
 
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sdowney717 said:
If the marina has a fuel sensing nozzle, it will detect when tank is full and shut itself off. When I first got boat, and filled up at Salt Ponds Marina, I did not know their fuel dispenser nozzle did not sense a full tank. That was back in year 2000.
So if they don't have that, you got to be very careful when fueling up. You would think a fancy marina would have decent modern equipment. just imagine if all gas stations did not have such a nozzle, customers lock on the handle, and it just keeps pumping fuel after the tank is full flooding the ground with gasoline..
Click to expand...

CAUTIONARY NOTE ...To All Boat Owners:

1. Boats are not cars
2. Boats fill up at "Fuel Docks" - Not gas stations [exception is boats on trailers]
3. When fueling NEVER leave fuel nozzle on [in any manner] without your hand on that nozzle's trigger.
4. While filling - Continually with eyes, ears, and sense of smell realize when fuel tank is approaching full.
5. Due to insights learned from the senses shut off nozzle trigger just before tank is completely full
6. Never try to "top-off" a boat's fuel tanks - Unlike cars... Boats Rock!
 
Attwood valve

sdowney717 said:
I found the pressure relief fuel caps from attwood, this kind does not use a carbon canister. They have caps that require a carbon canister, I recommend you do not bother with the added expense, although the EPA would like you to capture all vapor emissions!, I do believe that compromises the sealed system idea as the carbon canister sits in the vent line exposed to the air.

Deckfills for Pressure Relief Systems : Attwood Marine

The fuel demand valve I used was not tank integrated, I used the model for outboard motors. My old tank could not support an integrated tank fuel demand valve, (from attwood) and it was simple to just install right at the tank inline with the hose. And the price was right compared to the Perko valve which might have screwed int the tank, but then have to mess around with pickup tube length.

This valve is not legal according to the USCG regulations and ABYC. Any decent surveyor will find it and ding you on it. Plus it is a safety risk which you should certainly avoid.
Click to expand...
 
We simply keep track of tank gallons used with the Flow Scan , ad only have to be real careful on the last 2 or 3 gallons on a fill.

No matter what the fuel tank ashphalting (clumping) will happen as the fuel ages.

Happily its EZ for most filters to stop.
 
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33 CFR Part 183 Subpart J, the USCG requirement for Gasoline Fuel Systems went into effect in 1977. The purpose of the pressure test was to replicate the head pressure of a tank with the fill pipe full of fuel. 3 PSI represent approximately 1.5 times the pressure of a 6-foot head. This section of the USCG regulations only applies to gasoline powered boats. This was immediately adopted by ABYC, and it was expanded by ABYC to include Diesel boats in about 1983. NOTE, there are no such USCG requirements for diesel fuel tanks. This requirement was adopted by the ISO TC 183 Small Craft, in 1999, or 2000. Note the ISO requirement does apply to both gas and diesel.
 
tadhana said:
sdowney717 said:
I found the pressure relief fuel caps from attwood, this kind does not use a carbon canister. They have caps that require a carbon canister, I recommend you do not bother with the added expense, although the EPA would like you to capture all vapor emissions!, I do believe that compromises the sealed system idea as the carbon canister sits in the vent line exposed to the air.

Deckfills for Pressure Relief Systems : Attwood Marine

The fuel demand valve I used was not tank integrated, I used the model for outboard motors. My old tank could not support an integrated tank fuel demand valve, (from attwood) and it was simple to just install right at the tank inline with the hose. And the price was right compared to the Perko valve which might have screwed int the tank, but then have to mess around with pickup tube length.

This valve is not legal according to the USCG regulations and ABYC. Any decent surveyor will find it and ding you on it. Plus it is a safety risk which you should certainly avoid.
Click to expand...

I just don't care, it works even though it is 'illegal' It is sold for above deck use, but the integrated Attwood for below deck look and are made the exact same design, they just snap into a premade tank fitting on top the tank. The only functional difference is the one I used is inline, so it has an inlet and outlet for a hose.

It is not a safety risk. Is someone going to put a blow torch on it, well wont make a difference with either the on tank model, or the inline model, result will be the same.

And no one will ever survey my boat., while I own it, I am never selling the boat.
Even if I did sell it, it would always be sold as is. Then let the next owner buy the Perko fuel demand valve that screws into the tank versus staying with the Attwood inline valve..

Here is the integrated Attwood valve
https://www.backtoboating.com/products/copy-of-integrated-fuel-demand-valve

carbon-canisters-integrated-fuel-demand-valve-2_large.jpg


Here is the inline valve, the similarity is obvious, the same parts are used in constructing both units.
https://www.wholesalemarine.com/att...xmkhktQeFiUVy5VV4zQkX3t4Mw0JPxLoaAlDsEALw_wcB
att-9300fdv7_lg__52265.1469112957.500.750.jpg
Click to expand...
 
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This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
 
Art said:
This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
Click to expand...

Yes, safety stupidity at work and they passed a regulation to force those changes onto the public unwillingly because the EPA does not like any vapor emissions.

If you go with a new fuel system, do not use the charcoal vapor canister design, it pleases the epa but leaves the vent open to the air. Go with the vopr fill cap it works. I also read a lot of complaints on hull truth forum about the charcoal canisters, they can make filling the fuel tank extremely slow, complaint was kept backing up in the fill nozzle, could not fill the tank, took a long long time to fill the tank. And it seemed like a lot of OEM were going with the charcoal canisters, which actually adds more cost. The Perko fill for a charcoal vapor system, has no valve in the cap, 100% sealed tight. The Attwood fill for the charcoal system has a valve that only opens at a high pressure, like they suggest in an emergency overpressure situation, perhaps if the ventline gets clogged.
 
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Art said:
This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
Click to expand...
In industrial law,it is said the only really safe machine is one so adequately fitted with guards it cannot be used.
Likewise, the only safe fuel pouring spout is one which does not allow any fuel to pass through it.
 
BruceK said:
In industrial law,it is said the only really safe machine is one so adequately fitted with guards it cannot be used.
Likewise, the only safe fuel pouring spout is one which does not allow any fuel to pass through it.
Click to expand...

That means the only safe human is a dead one!!?? Lest I transgress! LOL :whistling:
 
Art said:
That means the only safe human is a dead one!!?? Lest I transgress! LOL :whistling:
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Art, if a person dies, are they still "a human"? Methinks not, on both a religious and an organic basis.
 
BruceK said:
Art, if a person dies, are they still "a human"? Methinks not, on both a religious and an organic basis.
Click to expand...

Bruce - Perhaps we are both "looking through a glass darkly". In regard to religious or organic basis.

You think dead human is not safe to others when dead [in basic similarity to the only safe gas valve/pour-spout is one that will not let any fuel through].

I disagree. Once dead that human can no longer be a danger. Procedures the human instituted before dying may remain dangerous to other items in the world... but that [those instances ] too will eventually die out.

:D
 
Art said:
This reminds me of the "safety" pour spouts placed into production and made to be on every portable gas tank... by "law" in CA. You know the ones on portable red plastic gasoline cans... that don't work worth a shat!
Click to expand...

To over come-that stupid required pour spout, look up the following:

www.ezpourspout.com

and I will include the cautions and prohibited states, just for the fun of it.

Designed for refueling off road equipment, tractors, bobcats, boats, wave riders and more.

Only for portable fuel containers manufactured prior to Jan 1 2009.

Will not fit in unleaded automobile gas tanks.

This product is not CARB compliant.
Not for sale in the following states; CA, CT, DE, MA, ME, MD, NH, NJ, NY, OH and VA.

The above is just incase you tired of spilling more gas than you get into the tank.

I bought 3 ear-making one who shall remain unnamed and lives in an unnamed state.
 
OldDan1943 said:
To over come-that stupid required pour spout, look up the following:

www.ezpourspout.com

/QUOTE]

Thanks Dan

Seen that before. I'm sure it flows OK as long as air vent is also in tank's rear. Otherwise suction problem would be big PIA. Also, due to rather slim hose it might take a while to empty all 5 gals.

The way I handle filling "whatever" from 5 gal plastic portable tanks is to always have a long nozzle funnel at hand; with its nozzle shortened to point of a fairly large diameter. That way I fully open the large end of the tank and pour into wide funnel top. Tank's opening is plenty big enough to handle both the fuel and self fed breather need. Empties quickly!! :D
Click to expand...
 
Here's one that has my interest. Never held one yet. Seems easy to use. Bottom hole in a fuel can scares the HELL out of me. Shat happens! :confused:

https://www.surecanusa.com/
 
Art said:
Here's one that has my interest. Never held one yet. Seems easy to use. Bottom hole in a fuel can scares the HELL out of me. Shat happens! :confused:

https://www.surecanusa.com/
Click to expand...

Thanks. Glad to see other options and I agrees with your assessment. At least there are three options so far.
 
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Art said:
OldDan1943 said:
To over come-that stupid required pour spout, look up the following:

www.ezpourspout.com

/QUOTE]

Thanks Dan

Seen that before. I'm sure it flows OK as long as air vent is also in tank's rear. Otherwise suction problem would be big PIA. Also, due to rather slim hose it might take a while to empty all 5 gals.

The way I handle filling "whatever" from 5 gal plastic portable tanks is to always have a long nozzle funnel at hand; with its nozzle shortened to point of a fairly large diameter. That way I fully open the large end of the tank and pour into wide funnel top. Tank's opening is plenty big enough to handle both the fuel and self fed breather need. Empties quickly!! :D
Click to expand...

There is always a work around. SMILE
Click to expand...
 
Found a VOPR valve that is self contained and goes in a 5/8 vent line.
This would have to tee off a vent line running to a vented deck fill using a sealed cap.
So the fill would allow you to fill the tank having the wide open vent running to the deck fill, while this vopr valve would tee off the vent line to an outside area of the hull. Doing this the deck fill cap could be 100% sealed, with no built in valve.
1 PSI to vent out, and .05 psi to let air in the tank.


BK0280025 - Diurnal Control Valve (DCV) 5/8" x 5/8" - Vapor Space Management - OE Boat Builders
I had been thinking such a thing ought to exist.

Blue Skies also has threaded fuel demand valves. And the prices look good.

I could have modified my 1970 Perko bronze fills, added a vent back to the fill.
Would have required tapping a thread hole for a 1/2 inch pipe for the vent line, and used that vent valve and kept the original look of my system.
 
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