How big is too big???

Steve91T · Jul 11, 2018

Baker said:
Yes it will. And the bottom and props being significantly fouled could casue it as well. I just don't think both turbos would fail at the same time...

They are corroded. But believe it or not they spun freely and had very little shaft play. But they still don’t look very healthy. I might ask them to hook up a boost gauge if the injectors don’t solve the problem.

Juggerknot · Jul 11, 2018

Smoke no go...

What color smoke after reaching operating temps? Old fuel can certainly degrade in the tanks, freshened injectors are nice... A compression and leak down test on the cylinders is easy and tells a lot, a good diesel tech can also check boost output of your prospective turbos as well. The IP can be a source of power loss, hard starting and smoke too... Agree with you, let em keep changing nice bits that you would be on the hook for.
Speaking of on the hook, the "Fish House" restaurant at mile marker 102.4 has always been a favorite of mine!

Buen provecho

BandB · Jul 11, 2018

Unless the props are damaged, they're the props that have been used and not likely the issue. It's more likely an engine issue of some sort. It may be minor and it may be major.

Baker · Jul 11, 2018

BandB said:
Unless the props are damaged, they're the props that have been used and not likely the issue. It's more likely an engine issue of some sort. It may be minor and it may be major.

They tried to make rated RPMs and did not achieve that. And in conjunction with attempting to make rated RPM, there was a lot of smoke. If that smoke was black, then the engine is overfueling(overloaded)...which is likely caused by props that have too much pitch. This boat with these engines is not likely operated at a point where the engine would be overfueling. They probably operate the boat somewhere in the 1800-2000RPM range and at trawler speeds....which would not likely cause the symptoms mentioned. And I was not refering to damaged props. But to props that have too much pitch. And like FF stated, these particular props and engines may be perfectly fine at those RPMs. And like the OP stated, black smoke could be caused be a lack of boost from the turbos...but admitted they spun freely and firmly.

Poor Injectors would cause white smoke and likely be present at lower RPMs as well.

Black smoke generally is a sign that the engine is overloaded....or is not getting enough air(clogged intake or poor/no boost).

BandB · Jul 11, 2018

Baker said:
They tried to make rated RPMs and did not achieve that. And in conjunction with attempting to make rated RPM, there was a lot of smoke. If that smoke was black, then the engine is overfueling(overloaded)...which is likely caused by props that have too much pitch. This boat with these engines is not likely operated at a point where the engine would be overfueling. They probably operate the boat somewhere in the 1800-2000RPM range and at trawler speeds....which would not likely cause the symptoms mentioned. And I was not refering to damaged props. But to props that have too much pitch. And like FF stated, these particular props and engines may be perfectly fine at those RPMs. And like the OP stated, black smoke could be caused be a lack of boost from the turbos...but admitted they spun freely and firmly.

Poor Injectors would cause white smoke and likely be present at lower RPMs as well.

Black smoke generally is a sign that the engine is overloaded....or is not getting enough air(clogged intake or poor/no boost).

We will see. Answer would be easy if we knew what RPM he was achieving before.

Baker · Jul 11, 2018

BandB said:
We will see. Answer would be easy if we knew what RPM he was achieving before.

It would also help if we knew for sure what color smoke. It was never mentioned but I made the assumption.

Steve91T · Jul 11, 2018

BandB said:
We will see. Answer would be easy if we knew what RPM he was achieving before.

Many unknowns with this boat. I can walk at any time, so I’m not on the hook for anything. I’ll get more information next week when they sea trial it again. This time the broker will go with them.

Steve91T · Jul 15, 2018

Comodave said:
No, they don’t. That is the difference between the 225 and the 185. Brian said if my intercoolers go bad what I would have to do is bypass them and then I would have 180/5s. The intercoolers are not available anymore.

I don’t know if that’s true. I keep hearing the 185 have aftercoolers. I also have to wonder about just bypassing the intercooler if it goes bad. It’s more complicated than it’s just now a lower hp engine.

Comodave · Jul 15, 2018

I got that info from Bob Smith who was VP with Lekman and started American Diesel during a class on the Lehmans. He was the ultimate guru on them.

Steve91T · Jul 15, 2018

Comodave said:
I got that info from Bob Smith who was VP with Lekman and started American Diesel during a class on the Lehmans. He was the ultimate guru on them.

Yeah but I got my knowkedge from the internet, so I think we all know who to believe.

Comodave · Jul 15, 2018

Yes, if it is on the internet it must be true... Bob told me the one thing on my engines that was not available was the intercooler. He said that if they go bad I could just run a hose to bypass it and then I would have a 185 instead of 225.

Steve91T · Jul 15, 2018

Comodave said:
Yes, if it is on the internet it must be true... Bob told me the one thing on my engines that was not available was the intercooler. He said that if they go bad I could just run a hose to bypass it and then I would have a 185 instead of 225.

Yeah I believe you. I just don’t know why I keep reading otherwise. I keep finding they say they are aftercooled. I believe aftercooler and intercooler are the same thing.

Comodave · Jul 15, 2018

Aftercooler and intercooler are interchangeable terms in most peoples minds. There may be some technical difference but if there is I don’t know what the difference is.

Steve91T · Jul 15, 2018

Here we go.

Comodave · Jul 15, 2018

You might call Brian at American diesel and ask him. Could be I am wrong.

Crazymonkey · Jul 16, 2018

My wife and I live on a 45' Sea Ranger Trawler. Everyone thinks its 50' plus but its not. 15.5' beam. 2 Cabins and an office. Plenty of room but if I had the chance when we bought her, I would have gone bigger now that I am on the Crazy Monkey2. Next boat will be 55' but for now, this is perfect.

bowball · Jul 26, 2023

tiltrider1 said:
Our yacht club has 10 outstations spread across the PNW. We have a 70’ max limit at most of the outstations. Therefore 71’ is too big. Now you know. LOL

So LOA 70’ 10” is too big for SYC outstations? LOA hull 67’.

That’s an issue.

OldDan1943 · Jul 26, 2023

Too big occurs when you need more crew than you currently have on board.

tiltrider1 · Jul 26, 2023

bowball said:
So LOA 70’ 10” is too big for SYC outstations? LOA hull 67’.

That’s an issue.

That was supposed to say some outstations. You will find most of our outstations can accommodate a 71' boat. However, once you cross the 70' length you need to be aware of what slips are allowed to be oversized.

tiltrider1 · Jul 26, 2023

OldDan1943 said:
Too big occurs when you need more crew than you currently have on board.

Everyone is different. I do however agree.

Some of the best advice I ever heard was buy the smallest boat that does what you need. At 42' I always felt like the boat was too small and too big at the same time. Now I'm starting to think that 42' was pretty close to perfect. At 54' we love this boat, except when its time to dock.

Simi 60 · Jul 27, 2023

tiltrider1 said:
Everyone is different. I do however agree.

Some of the best advice I ever heard was buy the smallest boat that does what you need.

Yep, and at 60ft we have done that.
Ideally, same layout on 65 ft with a bit of extra beam would be ideal

tiltrider1 said:
At 42' I always felt like the boat was too small and too big at the same time. Now I'm starting to think that 42' was pretty close to perfect. At 54' we love this boat, except when its time to dock.

I agree, docking is the most stressful part of our years on the water.

The logical solution to this is not to dock.
Big boats are made to be out there doing it.
Haven't tied to a dock in near seven years ourselves.

OldDan1943 · Jul 27, 2023

The older I get, the worse my eyes get.
The older I get, the slower I get and my knees hurt more.
May I suggest you look a DockMate?

Hippocampus · Jul 27, 2023

OldDan1943 said:
The older I get, the worse my eyes get.
The older I get, the slower I get and my knees hurt more.
May I suggest you look a DockMate?

Think it’s not only adding a device but it is boat specific. I have no understanding of what “big” means when applied to boats unless other qualifiers are added.

Been on 34’ full keeled double enders with unbalanced barn door rudders. No thrusters and a total bear to dock.
Been on a 86’ masthead sloop with proportional, hydraulic thrusters, good sight lines easy to dock.
Been on very large race boats and cramped into a pipe berth and a cubby hole for my kit.
Recently got a tour of a beautiful 60’ coastal go fast. I’d worry about her in a seaway.
Friend owned a carbon 58’ cat. Finding suitable dockage, haul out and docking was hard. He sold her because of those concerns.

What does big mean? As regard’s living on her? Docking her? Maintaining her? Seaworthiness? Expense of owning her?
What’s the measure?LOA? Draft? Beam? Displacement? Payload? Range?

keith c · Jul 27, 2023

My 34 footer and two a/c units. My neighbors 53 footer has 5 a/c units.1head.3 heads. I could go on. Size does matter.

wa7pug · Jul 27, 2023

We lived on 42' GB for 5 years and it was good/had a kid and it became small (30 years ago) .... now have 25' Ranger Tug and for long weekending is perfect ... depends on what you are willing to put into it, but another factor: slip availability and cost. Slips have gotten pricy, and some people will say if you can afford the boat you can afford the slip, but some places are pretty proud of their location and price goes up continuously ... so, although it may not be the only factor, it is a factor.... PUG

Hippocampus · Jul 27, 2023

keith c said:
My 34 footer and two a/c units. My neighbors 53 footer has 5 a/c units.1head.3 heads. I could go on. Size does matter.

Agreed but if anchoring out cost of ownership maybe be much less with a home built 46’ Diesel duck and basic systems than a much smaller Hinckley picnic boat. True even if factory built. What you put in for systems isn’t always size dependent. I have one small TV in the salon. Seen sister ships with a large one in the salon and mid size in the staterooms. Same boat. Same variation with number of helm stations, electronics, watermakers, AC, kitchen appliances etc.

wa7pug · Jul 27, 2023

another factor in slip availability (maybe warrants a new thread) .... getting on a wait list ... Not much fun to buy a boat and cannot get into a marina within reasonable range. Fortunately, our boat is trailer-able (not best option but it was an option) and we wound up on a wait list for a bit over a year ... then we got in, and when we bought our boat now, it was close enough in side we did not have to negotiate a different slip. I think we were lucky. I guess this just goes back to "have a plan; make sure all factors make sense, then execute the plan. Suspecting folks here already know all of that and should be common sense, so this is targeting people for whom this might be their first rodeo .... can have a steep learning curve sometimes

It is amazing how much we learn pretty fast until someone else stumbles in our steps. Take care, Folks!

OldDan1943 · Jul 27, 2023

Folks many times buy a boat and then go looking for a slip, thinking finding slip will be easy to find.
This usually happens during a boat show.

I suggest, you buy or rent a slip first. If possible I recommend you BUY your boat slip. It will only increase in resale value and you can establish it as your home port. I bought a boat slip for 84K and in less than 10 years, I sold it for 325K

bowball · Jul 27, 2023

tiltrider1 said:
That was supposed to say some outstations. You will find most of our outstations can accommodate a 71' boat. However, once you cross the 70' length you need to be aware of what slips are allowed to be oversized.

They responded that over 65’ not allowed to be moored at the outstations.

psneeld · Jul 27, 2023

Ships use tugs to dock.

If appropriate, the dink can be used to help dock if you have one dink qualified person in addition to the mothership handler.

The USCG use to always request us assistance towers to help dock in a tight situation where I was.

If you are in areas where there are assistance towers and you like a bigger boat and have the money, give them a call and for a tidy sum they may be happy to help you dock.

How big is too big???

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