Wakemakers

psneeld said:

well, nearly is the operative word where different boats and speed combos do require a little experience to guess the right spot and how fast to close the throttle.

having done it thousands of times and watched other pro captains and a few rec captains do it plenty...done right it works and is way more pleasant for all than a bad slow pass.

plus it is a close aboard manuever where a bow wave, if big, is on their quarter. While maybe noticeable, not uncomfortable.

Click to expand...

I have been on the giving and receiving ends of this maneuver many many times, mostly the latter. Happens to us at least once week here in Morehead City harbor even now. Boats steaming in from the inlet or north bound ICW cutting speed at close quarters right at the beginning of the no wake zone. Many professional captains of all sorts of craft. In thousands of miles of narrow channel cruising, be it the ICW, various rivers or the California Delta, I cannot recall anyone pulling this off with kind results.

Most people can readily practice this and see for themselves, at the border of a no wake zone say, but even in open water, preferably using a buoy instead of another boater as the guinea pig. The buoy is stationary though, unlike a moving boat so it is not exactly the same because you have to make much higher speed to get by the moving boat.

That bow wake comes right up on their stern and yaws the boat, then exacerbated as it hits the quarter. And while you're at it, see how much "glide" room your boat can cover once the throttles are chopped.

Can be done and others on here agree.....

Do it right and it works...and yes you have to know your boat and its wake...and also not every boat can do it every time.

But it does work for most planing boats I have run up to 50 feet.

I wonder if some of you complain this much when you drive through a pot hole on the street.

I would if a bunch of my neighbors were out in the street continuously making them on purpose....

I got waked today by a 34 foot charter boat doing about 18 knots between 60 and 80 feet off my starboard side in a narrow passage. Texted a friend who knew the lodge owner who told the lodge the boat name and time. Within 20 minutes I got a call from the operations manager at the lodge apologizing for the captain and saying he would handle it. Since I had been part owner of a charter business in the past, I told him I understood that captains sometimes don't make the best decisions and all was good.

Tom

bwahahahahahahah!!!!! a very literal interpretation of this thread!!!

"Your bow wake, which is your primary wake, will overtake them if you do that. "Remember you are going faster than they are by definition."

Usually (but not always) the passing boat will be larger than the boat being passed.

The difference in WL means there may easily be a 1K difference in unity (the sq rt of the LWL ) speed where there is little wake.

Passing a 40ft boat only 1K slower does not take as long as blithering on the radio or slow the boat being passed,

FF said:

"Your bow wake, which is your primary wake, will overtake them if you do that. "Remember you are going faster than they are by definition."

Usually (but not always) the passing boat will be larger than the boat being passed.

The difference in WL means there may easily be a 1K difference in unity (the sq rt of the LWL ) speed where there is little wake.

Passing a 40ft boat only 1K slower does not take as long as blithering on the radio or slow the boat being passed,

Click to expand...

When passing boat is sufficiently longer and passed boat is doing hull speed or less that is true and a good plan! However, in my experience those two items do not often coincide.

toocoys said:

bwahahahahahahah!!!!! a very literal interpretation of this thread!!!

Click to expand...

Looks/sounds like a bunch of immature fishermen with too much energy while not understanding nor knowing a constructive way to release it. Stupid is as stupid does!

I recall in grade school having weekend bouts such as that regarding stick ball areas of play in back of the school... or which group got to the outdoor basketball black hoop first. Immature is as immature does!

toocoys said:

I wonder if some of you complain this much when you drive through a pot hole on the street.

Click to expand...

In light of previous comments, I think you have made it clear who one boater is on the water that accepts no responsibility for waking others. Not to worry, I no longer get caught in traffic in Webster-NASA, fish East Bay or the South Jetty. Nor wait hours for the Bolivar ferry.
My Problens are now on East Coast, and there are plenty of WAKERS here. definitely not confined to Kemah and surrounding area.

"When passing boat is sufficiently longer and passed boat is doing hull speed or less that is true and a good plan! However, in my experience those two items do not often coincide."

That is a matter of understanding , training , and personal responsibility .

The physics of an uneventful safe pass are EZ , getting folks to do it is a different matter.

FF said:

"When passing boat is sufficiently longer and passed boat is doing hull speed or less that is true and a good plan! However, in my experience those two items do not often coincide."

That is a matter of understanding , training , and personal responsibility .

The physics of an uneventful safe pass are EZ , getting folks to do it is a different matter.

Click to expand...

"... understanding , training , and personal responsibility." Surely correct - but, a tall order to fill regarding two persons [boaters] unbeknownst to one another.

Courtesy is contagious, try it! Most folks out there are learning, though often subconsciously, so be a good teacher.

Chill out a bit and enjoy the water even more.

Thanks

cardude01 said:

I know this has been discussed multiple times here, but these boaters who toss others around with their giant wakes continue to perplex me.

Latest example. Cruising through a narrow part of the ICW with very shallow 2’ banks, going about 7 knots. Lots of boat traffic going both ways even though not a weekend (Florida). I see the wakemaker with the multiple white nauticles coming, and try to get ready. Wakemaker is actually going at what looks like a fast idle so I pull back to about 4 knots to let him pass thinking that this is a considerate boater.

Ha! At about 20 yards behind my stern he nails it and starts to plow water and throws a massive wake. I don’t have time or the room in the channel to escape, so I roll helplessly while all manner of crap flys from the shelves, wife and kids stumble around, other small boats and kayaks bob around in the massive wake violently.

After the waves subside I get on the radio, using some of my most colorful F word combinations, and explain how I slowed down so he could make a pass at a fast idle and not rock my world like a hurricane. I did get a response from him. He said “roger that”. So maybe I made an impact, but I doubt it. I realize I should use my radio to let them know how to pass me in advance, and I’ve tried that, but sometimes they come up on me too quickly and I’m preoccupied trying to take evasive action, and many times they don’t respond to my polite radio calls (I’m always polite pre-wake).

So my question is always, why do they do this? I look like a sailboater with my mast, so I wonder if they do it on purpose to watch how I roll, but that doesn’t seem right. Who would do that? I keep marking it down to simple ignorance or oblivion to their surroundings, but I’m just wondering if there is a better explanation why many of these boaters throw the LARGEST POSSIBLE WAKE WHILE PASSING IN A NARROW CHANNEL.

(Rant over)

Click to expand...

Why does it always seem to be a 30 foot or bigger Sea Ray?

No doubt in my mind that such people are ignorant narcissists. Innocently ignorant because they don't realize what they're doing to other boaters, or maliciously ignorant because such unkindness gives them kicks. Or they're simply narcissists and completely unaware of the adverse effects of their poor ship piloting.

BobH said:

I have never understood why someone would have the radii down below instead of at the helm. Can someone explain that?

Click to expand...

With a typical sailboat open cockpit it is protected from extreme weather and theft. When I was a sailboater mine was below but I could reach it from the cockpit, left hand on the tiller, right hand stretching for it. Once the mic was in hand I was fine.

RossWilson said:

No doubt in my mind that such people are ignorant narcissists. Innocently ignorant because they don't realize what they're doing to other boaters, or maliciously ignorant because such unkindness gives them kicks. Or they're simply narcissists and completely unaware of the adverse effects of their poor ship piloting.

Click to expand...

Let me see if I can get myself in trouble here. I was a sail boater for 20+ years and since 2007, a semi-displacement trawler owner. Generally, let me repeat, generally I find sail boaters more cognizant than power boaters here on the west coast. I think the reason is that more power boat owners think they are like cars and just buy one, hope in, turn the key and go. Sail boat owners tend to be a bit more serious with the propulsion issues they need to deal with. Ok, I know there are many many great power boat owners so don't hit me too hard. I'm just trying out a theory here.

I find more and more of these morons on the water. Most I believe are first time boaters that just haven't got a clue nor common sense. I see a lot of go fast boats here in Florida, especially down south with kids driving, probably daddy's boat with no consideration for anyone safety.

most of the weekenders out there don't even know they make a wake once they've passed

cardude01 said:

I know this has been discussed multiple times here, but these boaters who toss others around with their giant wakes continue to perplex me.

Latest example. Cruising through a narrow part of the ICW with very shallow 2’ banks, going about 7 knots. Lots of boat traffic going both ways even though not a weekend (Florida). I see the wakemaker with the multiple white nauticles coming, and try to get ready. Wakemaker is actually going at what looks like a fast idle so I pull back to about 4 knots to let him pass thinking that this is a considerate boater.

Ha! At about 20 yards behind my stern he nails it and starts to plow water and throws a massive wake. I don’t have time or the room in the channel to escape, so I roll helplessly while all manner of crap flys from the shelves, wife and kids stumble around, other small boats and kayaks bob around in the massive wake violently.

After the waves subside I get on the radio, using some of my most colorful F word combinations, and explain how I slowed down so he could make a pass at a fast idle and not rock my world like a hurricane. I did get a response from him. He said “roger that”. So maybe I made an impact, but I doubt it. I realize I should use my radio to let them know how to pass me in advance, and I’ve tried that, but sometimes they come up on me too quickly and I’m preoccupied trying to take evasive action, and many times they don’t respond to my polite radio calls (I’m always polite pre-wake).

So my question is always, why do they do this? I look like a sailboater with my mast, so I wonder if they do it on purpose to watch how I roll, but that doesn’t seem right. Who would do that? I keep marking it down to simple ignorance or oblivion to their surroundings, but I’m just wondering if there is a better explanation why many of these boaters throw the LARGEST POSSIBLE WAKE WHILE PASSING IN A NARROW CHANNEL.

(Rant over)

Click to expand...

Most of the boaters out there don't know they wake once they pass you and gun it. they think being passed you , you won't be affected

Wakers

If I'm being overtaken and have not been contacted and don't see the boat on AIS, I make a general call on ch16 stating " This is Liquid Therapy, I am dropping back to idle". That often gets a call back from the overtaking boat and he slows. I know I'm not supposed to make a general statement like that on ch 16. But I know the C.G is recording ch 16 and if an incident is bad enough I have some confidence that my transmission was recorded. If he doesn't slow and I have time I turn 120º toward his wake until it's gonna hit my bow IF I HAVE TIME. If not enough time I turn away from the wake to let it hit squarely on the stern. I often am backing in reverse toward their wake as i'd be aground on the iCW even at Idle headed away from the channel. If a boat is coming at me head on direction and again doesn't appear to be slowing, I make the same transmission on ch16. If he isn't slowing I keep my 6kt speed up and start turning toward just aft of his stern and keep turning with my bow pointed just aft of his transom. This erratic maneuver is often enough to make the other guy think I'm nuts and he slows down. If he doesn't not slow down I pass close enough to his stern that there is little wake that close to his boat. Yea, probably not the best idea. But I never point my bow at his boat, it's always behind. I am a 36' trawler. Just returned to the Chesapeake after 6 months down ICW and back to the Chesapeake and Bahamas. Third trip doing that. Seen a lot of wake nuts. Mainly FL. boaters with more boat than I can afford. It seems all cruisers are very considerate. It's the weekend boaters that are in a hurry. We try to stay in a marina Saturdays and Sundays for that reason. Some captains, seem to cut off the AIS transponders when they are going to be reckless too it seems to stay incognito. I've been thinking of two dash cams for the boat. Probably not.

Brooke Smith "Liquid Therapy" 36 Albin

psneeld said:

1. keep speed till nearly abeam the passed vessel.
2. chop throttles till rpm about what you need to be a couple knots faster than passed vessel.
3. let momentum carry you ahead of the vessel.
4. hopefully the passed vessel sees his move to cut in behind you over a not so large wake, you help by moving into his old path...
5. once in, passing vehicle can resume speed.

Click to expand...

Make sure there are not two boats passing you cut over into his old path...

Scuse me

There seem to be some misconceptions about sailors here… Surprising since so many trawler drivers are former sailors.
VHF radio's for sailors are often in the cabin, not the best place, but often the only available place for them to be safely installed. Sailors should have an outside speaker, or a ram Mike or portable VHF in the cockpit, but obviously not all do. Often, the radio can't be heard over the drone of the diesel engine. And in some areas, it's just too much of a pain to listen to all The idiocy on the airwaves. Yes, we are talking South Florida here.

Most sailors do have a handheld VHF… Unlike firefly and car here implied, we're not broke, or any more frugal than we need to be. Typically however the handheld is used in the dinghy, not in the big boat.

After 30+ trips down the ICW, I assure you, there are idiots in big powerboats who will deliberately slow down and create the largest possible wake to hammer a slower boat. The last one who did it to me spent over two hours explaining his behavior to the local water cop when I got hold of him. The one previous to him was a delivery captain up new coin jar, who ended up having to explain his behavior to the owner of the boat. I believe he lost his job for what he did to over a half dozen boats.

The best thing you can do is to hail be approaching boat and explain to him that you're going to slow down so that he can pass you slowly… Nine times out of 10 when you do that, they will slow down enough to give you a comfortable pass. If they don't, I suggest you contact the Coast Guard with a complaint including their vessel registration number if possible. Often these days, the Coast Guard will direct you to call local police enforcement… That is typically entirely useless unless you can give them enough information that they can follow up on the complaint with.

Unfortunately, on the water enforcement has all but vanished. Like someone else mentioned, if I am in a narrow part of the channel and I need the depth, I will take my half of the channel out of the middle, and the other individual will be forced to slow down. I have seen occasions where somebody has moved to one side or the other, and a powerboat has come by with a big wake and actually shoved that other individual aground on the side of the channel.

In my experience, I would say you are 100% correct. Sailors typically start with the small boat and learn the basics, I can take lessons, and graduate overtime to a large boat. The typical powerboat et as you noted, takes his checkbook to the local Marine store, buy is the biggest boat he can afford, sticks the key in and heads out to aggravate everybody else with his stupidity and lack of knowledge

In 30+ tips on the ICW, barges just have not been an issue in the way you've described. Slow down, and pass properly. Don't dream up bogus excuses

psneeld said:

A pass can be done without a huge wake (not no wake) pretty quickly even if the slower boat (say 7 knots or less) doesn't slow down.


If the passing boat keeps up its speed till nearly abeam you even with massive wake....you are moving so you stay in front of it...then the passer slows quickly...the bow falls and the stern rises so the wake diminishes....the momentum and a bit of throttle will get them past to where you just cut in behind them and as long as they are far enough past or you get in behind them quickly...its no musss or fuss.


the worst is when things go well but they throttle up just off your bow and dig a big hole that now you are up to and fall sideways into.

Click to expand...

This explains it.
It's far too complicated for the average boater.
It also confirms my sense that there are a lot of stupid boaters out there.

And virtually none of them read anything on TF.

I was following Cardude during one of those mega-wakes provoked by a 60 + Marlowe doing about 12 knots, not able to get on plane, but just at that point where he was probably at full power but looking at the sky.

We had watched create havoc with some other boats before he caught up to us in the narrowest part of the ICW near Cortez, FL. We positioned ourselves so passing was too risky with the shallows looming on both sides, but we knew he'd be coming as soon as it widened out. Unfortunately, the broader area we were reached when he decided to pass was still only about 120 ft. wide, making a cut through his wake nearly impossible for a couple of slothy trawlers like ours. Still, we tried.

I pulled back to idle so it would be obvious, but I guess he didn't get the message. I was at the extreme right and cut hard into his wake avoid being forced aground but I could only get maybe 30 degrees under full throttle before his wake struck my beam, forcing the boat full abeam to collect the next hit. It was all I could do with thruster, throttle and rudder to finally get behind him. I didn't even get straight enough to celebrate before we saw Cardude in the exact same position, at one point we could see him at a 40 degree or more heel at the very top of the first wave, exposing his entire keel and rudder, and nearly taking out a channel marker while attempting to perform the same maneuver we tried. Like us, there wasn't room to take it on the aft quarter or do anything but get a good ass kicking.

All in all, getting mega-waked is almost a regular event in a day of cruising in SW Florida, but in the Miami to West Palm Beach area, multiply that by the number of super yachts and sport-fishers in the hands of some first timers with no training and even less conscience.

healhustler said:

I was following Cardude during one of those mega-wakes provoked by a 60 + Marlowe doing about 12 knots, not able to get on plane, but just at that point where he was probably at full power but looking at the sky.

.

Click to expand...

Did you try to reach the Marlow by radio?

The just below plane is the worse of all situations and just stupid. One thing I've found is that many associate speed and wakes and think low wake means slow. Well, it means slow to a certain point and then the wake gets it's worse size. I know we've been cursed when at high speed and we created absolutely no wake at all for those involved. They yelled "Slow the F down" not realizing that had we done so, it would have waked them. We responded to one yelling on the radio by asking if we waked them and they said no but we were still going too fast. We then asked if they really felt we should slow to half that speed and give them 3' wakes? They didn't respond to that question. We've make a lot of effort to understand our wake patterns at various speeds and we do watch just to make sure we weren't wrong.

As to superyachts and sportfish, I don't find many superyachts or megayachts being problems as, especially in tight quarters, they're running slow. Now if you mean the Sunseeker, Riva, Princess types, many suffer from running below plane and causing problems similar to the Marlow. Perhaps that's something they should be trained on at delivery. Sportfish and center consoles are problems taking off and coming to a stop often. Once on plane, they're out of the way.

Every boat can create problems for other boats and ultimately it's consideration for your fellow boater.

healhustler said:

I was following Cardude during one of those mega-wakes provoked by a 60 + Marlowe doing about 12 knots, not able to get on plane, but just at that point where he was probably at full power but looking at the sky.

We had watched create havoc with some other boats before he caught up to us in the narrowest part of the ICW near Cortez, FL. We positioned ourselves so passing was too risky with the shallows looming on both sides, but we knew he'd be coming as soon as it widened out. Unfortunately, the broader area we were reached when he decided to pass was still only about 120 ft. wide, making a cut through his wake nearly impossible for a couple of slothy trawlers like ours. Still, we tried.

I pulled back to idle so it would be obvious, but I guess he didn't get the message. I was at the extreme right and cut hard into his wake avoid being forced aground but I could only get maybe 30 degrees under full throttle before his wake struck my beam, forcing the boat full abeam to collect the next hit. It was all I could do with thruster, throttle and rudder to finally get behind him. I didn't even get straight enough to celebrate before we saw Cardude in the exact same position, at one point we could see him at a 40 degree or more heel at the very top of the first wave, exposing his entire keel and rudder, and nearly taking out a channel marker while attempting to perform the same maneuver we tried. Like us, there wasn't room to take it on the aft quarter or do anything but get a good ass kicking.

Click to expand...

Larry, I wish you could have gotten a photo with my keel and rudder showing, but I know you were battling turbulence back there. Some posters have said something to the effect of “stow your crap better, you’re gonna get waked, take it like a man” blah blah blah, but I don’t think they understand how bad some of these wakes are. We are not talking about regular wakes here, but big-ass mega wakes that are actually dangerous to other boaters. I came across from the Bahamas last year and in the Gulf Stream we hit some unsettled weather and big, confused seas, and we never heeled over anything like we have in the ICW. It’s ridiculous and dangerous to get waked so bad in such close quarters.

Healhustler tells us the whole story, independently viewed, and unfortunately also experienced. A very nasty dangerous situation fully illustrated, well dealt with by experienced TF members. One poster ought apologize to cardude.