Semi-Displacement Hulls?

When you say beter built hulls, did you mean just the hull, or the whole boat?

Just plain construction and design of the hulls isnt going to vary a lot between many if just talking hull.

The devil might be in the details for some, not the general construction.

toocoys said:

What were some of the better built semi-displacement hulls, say... pre-1990's?

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toocoys said:

Meanwhile back at the ranch.... after 29 posts I’ve been able to amass two models... CHB which I could possibly afford, and Grand Banks which is still just a dream.

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The early 34' Mainship models -- late '70s through about '87/'88 or so -- were on semi-displacement hulls, design and tooling said to have been acquired from some company up in Maine (that went belly up?).

Very good boat, in my opinion (we had an '87 Mk III) although not without some (fixable) issues owing to common manufacturing techniques at the time... and a bit long in the tooth by now, especially the earlier models.

Can't say how it would compare to your Commander in size, ride, etc... but in general it was reasonably economical to run on the single diesel.

There are some threads here on some really great updates and restorations some of the owners have done...

Mainship also made a 36' and a 40' in those early days, but I don't know much about those, whether diesels versions existed, etc...

You might also look at names like Kong & Halvorsen (Island Somethings?) and maybe early Ocean Alexanders?

-Chris

You asked for "better" not "cheap". The fact that you see so many 40 year old vintage Hatteras and Grand Banks around is one testimony to their "betterness". As a general rule I would rather have an older one of them than a newer "other" for the same price, and would be pretty confident of a lower total cost of ownership for the better boat.

Possibly the best ... Wood GB.

First because they are a great boat and second because they are wood. No blisters. No rotten decks or house. These two features may overpower the problems of wood construction. Would help to live in the NE US or the PNW USA where wood shipwrights are still availible. Of course one needs a quality boat. Bronze fastened and the best boat building wood.

I can’t think of any plastic boat that I could tell a friend “nope, won’t have any problems w that one. There probably are. But I can’t think of one. It’s not like I worked in a number of pleasureboat building places and know some that are free of problems. I only worked in one and they had a FG flaw and weren’t trawlers. A real quality built boat either dosn’t exist because they would have been too expensive or they were made before vinylester resin was availible.

Possibly look to Europe. Did Riva build a trawler? HaHa.
Another possibility is to look at Rawson and other fishboat builders that poped off a trawler now and then.

How good is the Nordic Tug? This is a question that probably only a person in the industry may be able to answer but they would be laden w bias re the places they worked.

Again w wood you can easily find a top notch boat. For example a Vic Frank built boat built of woods like Ak Cedar and white oak that was designed by Monk or Gardener. But most all are too old to be excellent now.

And there are fishboat conversions. You’d need to find one designed by someone like Hanson and built of the best materials in a very reputable yard/shop. But the conversion would need to be so good you’d probably look for years before you found it.

I don’t know if there are any real high quality trawlers our there. Better just buy a run-of the-mill common plastic boats. But naming brands can be tricky on a forum. One could only say positive things becase of all the angry enemies you’d make. So the name of the game is to find boats w the fewest red flags that dock talk can produce.

If you tour 3 or 4 boats from each manufacturer with a critical eye, there are obvious differences in quality among brands. Often, you need to look under and behind things to see this, but it is there. This is not to knock the lower quality brands, as they usually come at a lower price. The value of price and quality differ among buyers. In fact the addition of quality tends to affect the price exponentially, the last 10% in quality will cost you 100% more. In price/performance, bottom fishing the market has some merit.

I think history has judged wood boats as being more disposable that fiberglass, except for very rare cases. Many poorly built fiberglass boats from the 60's, uncared for, are still floating and restorable. That cannot be said for most wood boats.

toocoys said:

Meanwhile back at the ranch.... after 29 posts I’ve been able to amass two models... CHB which I could possibly afford, and Grand Banks which is still just a dream.

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Almost no brand names mentioned here for the obvious reasons I mentioned. My post #2 was bad as it didn’t address your question at all. I was off the track for some reason and dropped the ball.
You’re looking for the Toyota’s of trawlers. Quality of build and materials, design and availability. Pass on the weird boats as you don’t want to be saddled w selling when the time comes.
Another mistake I made was to mention CHB. I had a surveyer friend and told this person that I really liked the 34CHB. This person said “Eric you don’t want a CHB”. But that was 15 yrs ago and most of the CHB’s probably have had their decks and cabins re-cored or otherwise fixed. There are probably others in the same boat. However my reference to the CHB boat in this thread was only a design reference. But a good CHB is a highly recommendable boat IMO if the purchase is preceeded by a very good surveyor.

And that brings me to another point.
One should look for a trawler in excellent condition first and consider the brand as secondary. As to design look for a boat that floats propperly “on her lines” and does not run bow down. Ask owners how their boat runs in following seas. PM owners on TF but beware of owner bias both positive glowing “my boat is the best” ... lots of that that can’t be “taken to the bank”. And bitter owners (far fewer) that blame a boat for problems of the past that reared their ugly head in the present. But if you could find unbiased opinions and know what they mean you’d be knowledgeable enough not to need to ask the OP question.

For unbiased opinions you may try asking trawler owners what boats they wish they had bought but have not. That would be Nordic Tug and GB and Rawson for me. Really liked that Rawson but it was an old boat in many ways. Even liked the FB. Did I say that

psneeld said:

When you say beter built hulls, did you mean just the hull, or the whole boat?

Just plain construction and design of the hulls isnt going to vary a lot between many if just talking hull.

The devil might be in the details for some, not the general construction.

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I can't explain it very well.

When I'm on my boat, even though its 51 years old, it FEELS solid. It feels heavy. I mean the other day I was installing exterior speakers, and hit a board inside the gunnel area, and it broke my blade. Turns out it was 6 inch wide, 3 inch thick solid mahogany. And when I installed my AC last week, I had to cut a hole in the dinette seat for the return grill, and even the dinette seat was a full INCH thick plywood. The stringers in this boat are like 4 inch wide by 6 inch thick mahogany beams covered in inch thick fiberglass.

For comparison, two weeks ago when we went to look at the 1979 Chris Craft Corinthian (which was built after Chris Craft was sold to new owners) it felt very "light". Closet doors were thin and covered in that awful 1970's depression colored Formica. The engine hatch covers felt like trampolines. Small kitchen compartments were that fake plastic that looks kinda like wood grain, and kinda like soot from an over sized flame. It was also very dark and cavernous.



I'm a huge fan of Taiwanese style boats. I've always liked all the wood interiors, and warm feeling of the boats that I've been on, both sail, and trawler. They usually always feel pretty heavy and solid - although most of the Marine Trader's that I've been on always felt leaky and soft, usually having some sort of soft deck, or wood rot below the windows.

So I guess, what are some other Marine Trader-ish trawlers? That style and era?

Heavy and thick doesnt make a strong boat necessarily.

Heavy is bad for planing and semi displacement.... but strong is good.

Advances in construction and design allow newer boats to be built much lighter.

I used to fish on sone pretty tough laptrake Jersey Sea Skiffs that probably didnt have a piece of wood on them over an inch or two thich except the backbone. They were designed to be light and fast even back in the 50s and 60s.

I think many of the Taiwan boats are heavily constructed, but not all that strong or well built..... but they are good enough for what most people demand out of them. As they age, without proper upkeep..... no telling how water damage weakens them unless repaired to at least original if not better specs.

"I think many of the Taiwan boats are heavily constructed, but not all that strong or well built."


The hulls are usually thick enough and do not suffer much from age , its the deck and PH construction that cause most of the hassle.

FF said:

"I think many of the Taiwan boats are heavily constructed, but not all that strong or well built."


The hulls are usually thick enough and do not suffer much from age , its the deck and PH construction that cause most of the hassle.

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True Fred, but plenty of cases where window leaks have caused rot in bulkheads and interior structural members...so the only reason they can still function safely is their over engineered bulk to a point.

Then like any boat, any poor workmanship by previous owners cutting into structure or letting water entry into encased stringers or other structure takes its toll....

Finally, lots of hurricane damaged and just general salvaged or trashed boats from the Far East area show major resin free or hydrolyzed areas in the hull layup once torn apart. So again, thick and heavy is no guarantee.

All of these arent really brand specific, so if just talking hull...no guarantees. Overall, sure, there are better built/engineered boats that survive time and owners better than others.

"True Fred, but plenty of cases where window leaks have caused rot in bulkheads and interior structural members."

Most of these hassles seem to come from folks that do not want to hear the words PM.

Preventive maint,,,, the TT home brew windows are a known for 40-50 years weak point .

The need to regoop under every deck or PH fitting is well known as leaks rot the plywood .

Folks prefer to dream that 5200 , or some super gopp-glue will save them from the chores that are needed.

The concept of only repairing as leaks occur , or as decks fail stinks.

The better concept is to accept the nature of the construction and attempt to make future rebedding as easy as possible.

Hatteras one of the best built production boar. Long range cruiser has few draw backs. We own a 52’ CPMY that we use as a trawler. Cruise 7-8 knots 2 gal per hour, repowered with Cummins qsm11’s. Super er

This time, I went with the American Tug SD. Yes of course the fuel demands are greater when above hull speed. The reason, for me, was the ability to have a better chance of outrunning a weather disturbance and greater control when entering or leaving a cut.
I guess that's the theory.

Dan,
Only on rare occasions can a boat outrun weather. Especially slow boats.

Nomad Willy said:

Dan,
Only on rare occasions can a boat outrun weather. Especially slow boats.

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Dan's isn't that slow and it's not really outrunning weather in the sense it's chasing him, it's getting across before the weather changes and his speed helps do that considerably. Speed when crossing the Gulf Stream to and from the Bahamas can be very valuable. Your ability to be sure you have a good weather window greatly increases with speed.

My N46 had hydraulic stabilizers and it was a real pleasure to have it on the auto pilot as the water was providing a heavy coating the windshield.
Alas, it was live through it because 8 knots really didn't provide excessive speed.
It was fun to see the bow dip deep into the waves.

Nomad Willy said:

Dan,
Only on rare occasions can a boat outrun weather. Especially slow boats.

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That is for sure, storm systems move very fast. You can only get ahead of a storm with ample warning, and storms can brew up fast too. We were on the bay and a thunderstorm was approaching fast and some folks come by yelling to head back in. I knew I could not and doubted they could make it to port either. So we rode it out, had gusts over 60 for sure, felt like hurricane force winds. Anchor dug in very deep that afternoon. We were sheltered ok and had quite an experience that day. Even if we had dragged, we were far enough away from land would have been ok. I was a little concerned the samson post could have torn the hull decking off it was that strong the wind and waves. My son in law said he could feel the hull decking vibrating from the stress.

717,
That’s been my experience.
Even w a fast OB one just seems to be wasting fuel.
But for some it’s probably a “feel good” thing to at least try. Make some noise and pound the boat.

Making a crossing window shorter, making it to a good anchorage, or just sidestepping the most severe part of a storm.....extra speed can certainly do all of those and has for me on many vessels.

Knowing your options is inportant and knowing if the boat can do any of them is just as important too.