89 carver Californian 48 water leak

I have a real head scratcher. I have water that accumulates in front of my auxiliary fuel tank in the aft stateroom. It is visible through the tv closet. I have isolated all pressurized lines and see no evidence of a leak. We have removed part of the floor to make sure the waste tank wasn’t leaking and found nothing. I am out of places to look and was hoping someone else has a suggestion. It is not fuel from the aux tank. Thank you for any suggestions!
Charlie

I was going to suggest you taste it to see if is fresh or salt water, but I see you are in Kentucky. Perhaps condensate from an AC?

Greetings,
Welcome aboard. Mr./Ms. BN. Not familiar with the vessel BUT if the area is above the water line, first guess for the source is deck or windows/ports. IF the area is below the waterline, does the eventual level in the area reach to the waterline if left long enough?


Edit: Mr. 1025. My first thought as well. I suspect the only salt water in KY is in/on the....

rudder shaft packing

I checked ac condensation and have it plumped to a sump. I inspected the rudder shaft, and no evidence of water there. It has an Oder but doesn’t appear to be waste and we have checked all of those lines. I appreciate your guesses and encourage you to keep them coming.
Charlie

If any of you know a Carver Californian expert, I’d love to pick their Brain. This has been a long process and all the usual suspects have been checked and ruled out. I look forward to any info one of you might have.
Thank you
Charlie

RT Firefly said:

Not familiar with the vessel BUT if the area is above the water line, first guess for the source is deck or windows/ports.

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If it might be rain water, one way to diagnose is to first dry the area... then flood various areas on the outside of the boat (one at a time) with dock water through a garden hose.

Could be a window/port seal... We had a leak at our deck-to-hull joint. Some folks have (temporarily?) fixed things like that by simply recaulking their rubrail (that worked for us in one area, several years ago), but for a more recent leak I went further and pulled the rubrail off, resealed the deck to hull, then replaced and recaulked the rubrail.

-Chris

Thank you for the input. I failed to mention that I am in a 70 foot covered slip that is covered several hundred feet on each side. The area is below the waterline with no evidence of water coming from the exterior.

have someone move the rudders while you check. Run the engines and look for leaks at the exhaust pipes. Transom zinc or swim platform mounts?

I will try your suggestions. Thank you all for your time and input!

water leak

I have received some wonderful suggestions of possible problem areas, unfortunately, I have been dealing with this since I bought the boat 3 years ago and over time I have eliminated one by one what I could. The rudder shafts are visible under my aft bed and they are dry. In fact, I wish they were the problem. There is an aft sump pump sitting there between them and it is dry. For some reason, forward of the aft fuel tank located under the aft bed, there is a small area that accumulates water, but it cannot get to the rear aft sump pump until it gets pretty deep. It looks like this fuel tank is encased with a fiberglass tub a little larger than the tank, I assume in case it were to leak it would catch the fuel. When this water accumulates and sits there very long it takes on an awful smell. I use a drill operated pump to keep it pumped out to eliminate the odor but of course I want to eliminate the source. I am thinking I have a very slow fresh water line leak under the floor where you cannot see. There is only about a 4'-5' area that I can't see under the floor and I have been considering purchasing an inspection camera like the Milwaukee M12 or similar. Thanks for all of the help. It reassures me that I have been looking in all of the right places.

Bare Necessities said:

Thank you for the input. I failed to mention that I am in a 70 foot covered slip that is covered several hundred feet on each side. The area is below the waterline with no evidence of water coming from the exterior.

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Got it, but below the waterline is often just where water pools; doesn't always have to do with where the water entered. Another way in is while underway, through rubrails or vents and so forth... and that may eventually end up anywhere in your bilges...

Bare Necessities said:

I am thinking I have a very slow fresh water line leak under the floor where you cannot see. There is only about a 4'-5' area that I can't see under the floor and I have been considering purchasing an inspection camera like the Milwaukee M12 or similar. Thanks for all of the help. It reassures me that I have been looking in all of the right places.

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Does your water pump cycle on and off, even when a tap's not open? That'd maybe tend to substantiate the fresh water leak idea.

I have the M12, works OK. A snapshot capability would have been useful...

-Chris

Aft shower drain sump leaking?

Water leak

Thanks again for another good suggestion. I have already eliminated it. I can visually inspect part of that line but I poured blue colored water down the drain and it didn’t show up in the boat. The shower pump pumped it out as it should. We have not been using that shower just to further eliminate it. I think my next move is to get an inspection camera and try to see under the floor in places that I can’t inspect. Thanks again for all of the suggestions.

Yes an overflowing shower sump may cause that. That area of the bilge is lower than further aft so it might be worth installing an inspection port over the area so a shop vac can pull out any water.

Exhaust hose change

I know this is an old thread but I have the same issue. However mine only gets water in there when I run the engines. That leads me to believe I have a wet exhaust hose leak. I also get exhaust fumes in my engine room when running the engines and that brings me to my question. How do I change the exhaust hoses on my 1989, 48ft Carver Californian. I don't see any hatches or inspection plates in the master stateroom that give me access to the exhaust tube run

jkxtreme said:

I know this is an old thread but I have the same issue. However mine only gets water in there when I run the engines. That leads me to believe I have a wet exhaust hose leak. I also get exhaust fumes in my engine room when running the engines and that brings me to my question. How do I change the exhaust hoses on my 1989, 48ft Carver Californian. I don't see any hatches or inspection plates in the master stateroom that give me access to the exhaust tube run

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Since you did not say specifically which model 48' you own I can only give you what I know from our years of a Tustin built 48' CPMY experience. You should be able to look behind the cabinets on each side of the boat and see the fiberglass exhaust tubes.

On the starboard side this can be done by removing the dresser drawers and using a light to inspect. On our 48 the tube ran all the way from the engine room to the transom. Inside the engine room the tube is connected to the engine with extension tubes and various rubber elbows and straight pieces.

On the port side you may have to remove the hanging lockers floor to gain access.

We too experienced the issue of exhaust fumes/smell in the engine room and aft cabin. After a vigilant search I found the issue was at one of the rubber connectors where it attaches to a fiberglass tube. Someone in the past had over tightened a hose clamp which crushed the tube to a point of fracture. This created a gap between the hose and the crushed area of the tube. Since the gap was at the top of the tube it only dripped occasionally and was difficult to catch it in the act.

Once I discovered it I removed the tube and repaired it buy grinding and rebuilding the area. Once repaired the issue went away.

Also in our 48 the water way down the center of the boat went all the way from forward to aft under all of the tanks. Water would always gather forward just inside the forward queen berth below deck area. Since the forward pump would not turn on until several inches of water were present. We kept it dry by using a wet vac occasionally as needed to remove any water. For the most part unless something leaked the boat was very dry.

Wet Exhaust leak

Thanks Capt Jon, I will inspect the clamps tomorrow. Are there rubber hoses connected to the exhaust muffler then run through the fiberglass tube or do they just use the fiberglass tube.
FYI... it's a Carver Californian that I believe was built in the Hatteras plant during the Carver transition. She's a 48ft, 3 stateroom, aft cabin boat. Engines are smack in the middle of the boat with access through a set of stairs in the galley.

You should check everything. You could have a leak in a hose, connector or even the exhaust mixer. This is critical stuff. If you don't know the condition you should take some time to inspect it all.

Ken

kchace said:

You should check everything. You could have a leak in a hose, connector or even the exhaust mixer. This is critical stuff. If you don't know the condition you should take some time to inspect it all.
Ken

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To spell it out, if exhaust gas is escaping into the boat,the danger is carbon monoxide poisoning. My mechanic was very concerned the day we spotted an exhaust gas leak associated with the turbocharger, pure luck the gas could be seen as sunlight penetrated the right area of the ER. An ex Navy and submarine mechanic, he warned of the dangers, adding young children were at special risk. You definitely need to resolve it.
Odd how water can be the indicator. I had water drops for which I could not find a cause, eventually tracing it to a high mounted genset exhaust hose defect.

Wet Exhaust

kchace said:

You should check everything. You could have a leak in a hose, connector or even the exhaust mixer. This is critical stuff. If you don't know the condition you should take some time to inspect it all.

Ken

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Yes, we will be checking everything...thanks

Wet Exhaust

BruceK said:

To spell it out, if exhaust gas is escaping into the boat,the danger is carbon monoxide poisoning. My mechanic was very concerned the day we spotted an exhaust gas leak associated with the turbocharger, pure luck the gas could be seen as sunlight penetrated the right area of the ER. An ex Navy and submarine mechanic, he warned of the dangers, adding young children were at special risk. You definitely need to resolve it.
Odd how water can be the indicator. I had water drops for which I could not find a cause, eventually tracing it to a high mounted genset exhaust hose defect.

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Funny thing is we noticed the water before the odor. The exhaust gases seem to stay in the engine room...(that we can smell), but the water is there every time we run the engines.

jkxtreme said:

Thanks Capt Jon, I will inspect the clamps tomorrow. Are there rubber hoses connected to the exhaust muffler then run through the fiberglass tube or do they just use the fiberglass tube.
FYI... it's a Carver Californian that I believe was built in the Hatteras plant during the Carver transition. She's a 48ft, 3 stateroom, aft cabin boat. Engines are smack in the middle of the boat with access through a set of stairs in the galley.

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No mufflers on our boat. Just the solid fiberglass tubes that went all the way to the transom. The tube was glassed to the transom.

Get an endoscope. I was thinking aft shower sump but you said that was eliminated. How about a slow leak from aft shower supply lines.

I wonder if this issues was ever resolved. I have a 1989 Carver Californian that is 48 f. I too get water in that area only after running the engines, and sometimes get exhaust fumes in the engine room. I suspected a leak in the exhaust tube but I had it inspected by two reputable local boat yards who claimed they found nothing wrong. One ex-detroit mechanic told me that on windy days exhaust fumes can be blown back into the boat through the exhaust then through the turbo or through the large vents on the side of the hull that open directly into the engine room. I discovered this to be true when my marina neighbor was grilling fish and I got his fish odor into the engine room. The other thing I discovered was that I can get water in two bilge areas if I am in rough seas. The water actually comes in through the bilge pump out through hull if a wave hits in that area. My through hulls are only about 8-10 inches above the water line. We proved this when sitting still and a fast boat went by throwing a huge wake. My boat didn't roll fast enough and water slapped the side of the boat right where the through hulls are located. Presto... water in the bilge which was perfectly dry prior to that time.

jkxtreme,check if your bilge pump hose/outlet has a one way valve which no longer works.

check valves in bilge lines

I have four bilge pumps that pump water directly overboard and none have check valves. I was planning to install check valves, and even bought them, but a couple people told me that was a bad idea. I think I'm going to install them to stop the water from coming in.

I would first try to reroute the bilge pump hose to a higher elevation before dropping to the through-hull. This rise may prevent the sea water from entering the bilge.

I have the Californian 55 CPMY with three staterooms. I have chased a couple fresh water leaks. One was under the port side wooden panel that my A/C unit sits on. Now I have a very tiny one forward of that. I can wetness but can't feel anything wet on the hoses.

I just replaced the Mid fuel tank from under the master bed. This tank is completely enclosed between the stringers with no outlet to the other bilges. I believe the fresh water tanks leaked as they are on top of the fuel tank. Those water tanks had been replaced before I bought her so I assume they neglected to dry the fuel tank area. So, with my aluminum fuel tank sitting in water for years, it finally perforated from the outside in. Tank replacement job was just completed in March. in the engine room centerline bilge pump, that area was accumulating fresh water to a small degree. I was stinky like it had been there a long time. I have only owned the boat since last summer. Sorry I got off track a little. I have access in several places in the master, hallway and third stateroom to see the shower sumps, shaft logs, strut attachments. We had to cut a new one centerline in the third stateroom to attach fuel hoses to the new tank. It ends up at the forward end of the bilge area that encloses the Mid fuel tank. That tank was 265 gallons and 150" long and extended from under my headboard in the master to under the floor in the third stateroom. Yours would probably be shorter. Keep water away from the fuel tank is the msg here.

Well my water intrusion mystery is finally solved in case anyone is interested.
I knew I had a little seepage from my starboard side rudder shaft, but you could see it enter a limber hole in the stringer in the aft of the boat and there was a straight shot through to the aft sump. There is a sump pump in the aft but hardly no water ever accumulates there so I thought, the rudder wasn't leaking much.
As it turns out, the stringer is hollow. The water from the rudder shaft, entered the limber hole and was running forward in the hollow stringer evidently to another limber hole midship accumulating under the mid cabin where the centerline fuel tank is in a sealed tub area. I guess to capture the fuel in case of a tank rupture. To find the leak, I poured colored water where the rudder shaft was seeping and it showed up under my mid-cabin. Tightened the rudder shaft, problem solved. Thanks everyone for your input. I hope this may help someone else. I did not know the stringer was hollow and I had no idea it could travel forward like it did. Thanks, Charlie