Lehr 2.5 vs. Honda air-cooled

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healhustler

healhustler

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Joined
Oct 2, 2009
Messages
5,198
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Bucky
Vessel Make
Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Considering a small outboard and would rather have a Lehr 2.5for the ease and storage of propane I already have aboard. But then, there is the Honda air-cooled 2.5 with no raw water to worry with, no fresh water flushing. Anybody using these? Comments plus or minus?
 
Larry, I can't speak to the Lehr but have operated a Honda 2HP, the previous version of today's Honda 2.5, for 9 years without an issue. It's small, easy to handle, efficient, and reliable but noisy at WOT. Centrifugal clutch on the prop, a light pull-start and a very clever swing-tiller/twist throttle for easy flip around reverse make it a breeze to operate...even for the kids.

Mine had a little hesitation on acceleration last week after sitting for the better part of a year. It's the first time it's given even a hiccup. After a 20 minute run, it's was running fine again.

Here's a shot from 2009 towing the ladies upwind for their evening paddle home. (Yes, that's an IPA I'm sampling.)
 

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I have a Lehr 9.9. As a person with plenty of time who likes boat repairs, you will enjoy this outboard. Few things in boating give you the opportunity to work of them as much as you use them. This is one of those gems. Designed for fresh water use, you will marvel at how quickly the cooling system corrodes and clogs. It's a shame you don't need a 9.9, mine needs a new home.....maybe at the bottom of the ocean.

Ted
 
In that power range consider a Torqeedo. No propane or gas to worry about. No flushing or cooling system to clog up. In addition is is quieter than the Lehr and much quieter than the Honda.
 
I've had both and, like the previous posts, agree that the contrast could not be greater. The Honda was easy to use, reliable and never needed repairs. The Lehr 2.5 spent more time in the shop for mystery failures than on the boat. Both Lehr dealers involved finally gave up saying that they could not get any support from Lehr. Both said that the Chinese parts were such poor quality that every failure involved several parts. I'm surprised they are still on the market.

I've had good experiences with a couple of Tohatsus and they have a propane 5hp now on the market, but I know nothing about this particular model.
 
Owned our Honda for two years and love it. The air cooling eliminates a lot of parts and keeps the salt water out of the engine. As with all Honda products the engineering is superb and ingenious.
 
Suzuki has a 2.5 4 stroke also, seems to run forever on about a teacup of fuel in the built in tank.
 
I honestly have no idea what the advantage of propane would be. Even if you have it on board already, are you going to unhook the can from your BBQ to use it on your outboard?


I feel similarly about the torqueedo. I know people like them, but they have limited range, are costly and not that powerful. Also, I have to think charging them on the hook would be problematic. I follow a YouTube vlog with two sailors who have one and rave about it, but when I watch their videos and compare it to my experience with outboards, I always think "that thing sucks."



Small gas outboards are a proven commodity and a tiny one like that would burn almost no fuel.



FWIW, I'd just get a bigger outboard. At least a 5hp. Not that much difference in weight, cost or fuel burn. Lots of situations where you can have too little power, almost none where you have too much. It's a safety thing even.


I'll get off my soap box now. :)
 
Honda’s a good little engine but just too noisy.
I have a 2hp Yamaha 2stroke single. A little better.
 
25 year old water cooled Honda 2. Still going strong...1 impellor replacement...
 
Dougcole said:
I honestly have no idea what the advantage of propane would be. Even if you have it on board already, are you going to unhook the can from your BBQ to use it on your outboard?


I feel similarly about the torqueedo. I know people like them, but they have limited range, are costly and not that powerful. Also, I have to think charging them on the hook would be problematic. I follow a YouTube vlog with two sailors who have one and rave about it, but when I watch their videos and compare it to my experience with outboards, I always think "that thing sucks."



Small gas outboards are a proven commodity and a tiny one like that would burn almost no fuel.



FWIW, I'd just get a bigger outboard. At least a 5hp. Not that much difference in weight, cost or fuel burn. Lots of situations where you can have too little power, almost none where you have too much. It's a safety thing even.


I'll get off my soap box now. :)
Click to expand...

Advantages to propane are:

fuel doesn't go bad when not used
Fuel system never gums up from sitting fuel
If propane is on the boat, one less fuel to carry
Redundant gas bottle for the grill

Ted
 
I guess I was dreaming about the Lehr. I really liked the idea of throwing an extra 1 lb bottle of propane in the dinghy for extended afternoon cruising. My 20 lb bottles on board would run the thing for 46 hrs., but alas, hopes crushed. I guess that noisey Honda is the better way to go. If I have to have noise, no raw water cooling dependency would be nice.
 
Ted wrote;
“Fuel system never gums up from sitting fuel”

There’s a converter, regulator or something in the fuel system that over time gets gumed up w really stinky nasty stuff. Cleaning those things is BAD. That was something I experienced w my propane powered Buick quite a number of years ago. I love the way propane engines run, even when cold .. no vaporization. The propane is already a gas.

The canister of propane is an advantage over trying to pour gasoline into a small hole on the top of the aft end of the OB. Some people never go over 100yds w a dinghy and some go many miles. But choices are good.
If the propane was smaller and lighter than gasoline .. that would be a significant advantage. But I’ll bet in pounds of fuel per mile gas is better.

Larry,
If you flush the engine now and then small outboards are not problematic. Lazy boaters will be better off w the air cooled. I just can’t stand the racket.
 
Last edited:
I guess it's true that some people never go very far in their dinghys, but to me why limit yourself?


After many years of Bahamas, Florida and some Caribbean cruising one of the most common errors I see people make is too small of a dinghy and too small of a motor. This especially applies to sailors, who seem to have an innate distaste for motors of any type and somehow feel that getting the smallest one possible limits their exposure to them and requires the least maintenance. So many times I've seen people in tiny dinks fighting the wind/waves/current just to get to a marginal bayside beach 1/4 mile away, poking along at 2 or 3 knots, everyone getting wet and miserable.



In the meantime, just a mile or two further is a great ocean side beach, beautiful coral heads teeming with fish and a bonefish flat. They've essentially crossed a big stretch of open water to an exotic place to just sit on the boat.


Buy the best tender you can afford with the biggest motor you can safely handle.
 
Doug,
Like anchors, engine power, fuel capacity ect ect ....
You can’t have all you want of everything. It’s a matter of balance. Needs/wants and what you’ve got in terms of time or money.
You think a small dink and engine is stupid. But everybody views it differently. Everybody has a different boat and boating geography. Some anchor out most of the time and others rarely do and some don’t ever anchor. Some view the dinghy as a lifeboat and that’s all.

But there’s so many variables one needs to cut back on some things so they can splurge on others that are more important .. relatively. So enjoy your high powered big dinghy but realize you’re making sacrifices on other other elements of your whole picture.

But also realize bigger boats have much more capacity to add things and features. It’s not linear at all. Another 6-8’ of boat could almost double it’s capacity. And then of course there’s always a mans wallet.
 
Al wrote;
“Who you calling lazy?”

Are you bigger than me?
Think so. So I’ll say no to that.
 
Nomad Willy said:
Ted wrote;
....I experienced w my propane powered Buick quite a number of years ago....
Click to expand...

I'd love to hear more about that !! Was it a home made conversion...did you do it or buy it....was it an entirely different motor, or was the Buick motor converted ??? Sounds very cool!!
 
Nomad Willy said:
Doug,
Like anchors, engine power, fuel capacity ect ect ....
You can’t have all you want of everything. It’s a matter of balance. Needs/wants and what you’ve got in terms of time or money.
You think a small dink and engine is stupid. But everybody views it differently. Everybody has a different boat and boating geography. Some anchor out most of the time and others rarely do and some don’t ever anchor. Some view the dinghy as a lifeboat and that’s all.

But there’s so many variables one needs to cut back on some things so they can splurge on others that are more important .. relatively. So enjoy your high powered big dinghy but realize you’re making sacrifices on other other elements of your whole picture.



I totally understand what you're saying. As I said, buy the biggest/best dinghy you can afford and safely handle. Obviously, someone on a 30' Catalina isn't going to have a 16' center console on the transom. All boating is a compromise.


My point is, that the tender is not a place to compromise. Unless you are strictly a marina to marina boater, there is going to come a time when you want/need to get somewhere in your tender. Somewhere upwind and upcurrent. And it's kinda rough. And it's pretty far.


I have an 11' caribe with a 20hp Suzuki. It's about the biggest our current 40' can handle (though I may push the envelope a little bit more someday soon). When we retire in 5 years or so and start spending months rather than weeks out, the main thing that may push us into a bigger boat is the ability to handle a bigger tender.


Perhaps our bigger dinghy causes us to sacrifice some speed in the big boat, and we burn a tiny more fuel. Other than that I can't see any sacrifice related to having a capable tender.



Also, for the record, I never said or implied that anyone was stupid. I said it was a common mistake. We all make mistakes, that doesn't make anyone stupid.
Click to expand...
 
Benthic2 said:
I'd love to hear more about that !! Was it a home made conversion...did you do it or buy it....was it an entirely different motor, or was the Buick motor converted ??? Sounds very cool!!
Click to expand...

Ben,
We saw it in the newspaper .. an add. At the time I drove trucks for a sizable machine shop/job shop. All of our trucks that wern’t diesel got converted to propane .. most “dual fuel”. That means one can switch from one to another while driving down (or up) the road.
PU trucks are best as the propane tanks are easily installed in the bed all the way fwd. My Buick had her tank in the trunk. It was a 73 LeSabre 2dr HT. Took up most of the trunk. This was in the later 80’s and it was very economical as I got most of my fuel at the bulk at a good price. I drove a lot (still do) and never needed over $100 to pay the monthly bill.

The propane injection/distributor (or whatever it’s called) sat on top of the 4brl carb that was standard on the Buick 350 engine. Through a solenoid the gasoline is shut off when the propane is turned on. Actual milage was about 5% less than gasoline but propane was about 25% cheaper. But usually propane varies quite a bit in price as time goes on.

A big advantage w propane is that the lube oil dosn’t get contaminated so oil lasts a very long time.

It costs about $1,500 to $2000. To convert a carb equipped gasoline engine and one needs the conversion parts. They are probably still available. PM me if you have that much interest and I’ll PM you about a book I have about propane conversions. One needs certain knowledge like how to set up the ignition timing changes. More advanced at low speeds and a bit retarded near the top end.
 
If I had my drouthers, it would be something like a 10 ft. AB with a bench seat, Euro console, and a 20 Honda. Great combo and about 350 lbs. according to the dealer. But right now, it’s an 8’10” Walker Bay rib that my Admiral needs to be able to handle. It’s like a wild horse with our 9.9 Merc on it. Need something tiny and manageable for her. But if we end up in the Islands, that will be the time for the bigger dinghy & engine.
 
"that my Admiral needs to be able to handle."

Some Admirals have no luck with outboards , and eventually feel "trapped" on the vessel.

A cheap 12v trolling motor will push as fast as most 4HP OB , faster than most can row, and can be operated by most anyone with little instruction.

If you like to anchor out , its something to think about.

A happy Admiral is a happy cruiser !
 
Fred: I can’t deny that I’m contemplating exactly that. After Cardude reminded me of the many successes of trolling motors on smaller tenders, I checked prices of some trolling setups, batteries and a goid battery box with internal breaker. A single 40 lb thrust trolling motor with internal battery monitor is more than enough. Add two deep cycle batteries and a hard case, all under $500. Could even add a cheap solar charger. It would definitely please the lady!
 
Dougcole said:
I guess it's true that some people never go very far in their dinghys, but to me why limit yourself?


After many years of Bahamas, Florida and some Caribbean cruising one of the most common errors I see people make is too small of a dinghy and too small of a motor. This especially applies to sailors, who seem to have an innate distaste for motors of any type and somehow feel that getting the smallest one possible limits their exposure to them and requires the least maintenance. So many times I've seen people in tiny dinks fighting the wind/waves/current just to get to a marginal bayside beach 1/4 mile away, poking along at 2 or 3 knots, everyone getting wet and miserable.



In the meantime, just a mile or two further is a great ocean side beach, beautiful coral heads teeming with fish and a bonefish flat. They've essentially crossed a big stretch of open water to an exotic place to just sit on the boat.


Buy the best tender you can afford with the biggest motor you can safely handle.
Click to expand...


Many sailboats are simply not setup to handle a large dinghy and outboard. Most of the time, the safest place for a dinghy during passages is up on the foredeck. The less weight you have have to deal with the better.

I got the Torqeedo when I had the sailboat. We would tow the dinghy most of the time and the motor was easy to put on a mount on the pushpit. It worked great and I am using it on our current boat. Our current boat came with a Walker Bay Genesis Deluxe open RIB with a Honda 8hp outboard. It is a great outboard. However, it will not get that dink on a plane. If I am going to run the dink at displacement speed, I’d rather do it with the Torqeedo that has had not a lick of maintenance since we bought it.

Two ways to use a dink, go fast and far or short and slow. If all you need to do is go short and slow, then a big dink with a big motor is kind of silly. However, if you need/want to go fast and far, then the biggest dink and motor you can handle is good. In my cruising area, the dink is used primarily to go from boat to shore or cruise around a harbor or anchorage. Slow and short works. And the Torqeedo is ideal for that. It has plenty of range for that purpose.

Having said that, there are a few times when it would be nice to go fast and far. My wife would like that. I need to make her happy. So, in another year I may be in the market for a 10’ console RIB with a 20hp motor.
 
Nomad Willy said:
The propane injection/distributor (or whatever it’s called) sat on top of the 4brl carb that was standard on the Buick 350 engine. Through a solenoid the gasoline is shut off when the propane is turned on. Actual milage was about 5% less than gasoline but propane was about 25% cheaper. But usually propane varies quite a bit in price as time goes on.



A big advantage w propane is that the lube oil dosn’t get contaminated so oil lasts a very long time.
Click to expand...


When I was a teenager my Dad bought a used 28’ motorhome. He wanted to use one for a 6 week family road trip, and rather than do the smart thing and spend the money to rent one, he was too cheap to do that so bought one for us to use, and then for the next 5-6 years he rented it out by the weekend or week. It saw lots of weekend use for snow skiing. I was the one that got to clean it up every time it came back.

It had two huge propane tanks slung lengthwise underneath. As you described, it had an electric switch that controlled a solenoid to the gasoline fuel tank and the propane tank. It ran well on propane but didn’t have as much power. Going up a really steep grade while loaded we would at times have to switch from propane to gasoline on the fly to maintain speed. The advantage my Dad saw was that Propane was cheaper, and you didn’t have to pay any road fuel taxes on it (if you bought it at the right place). It had a propane stove and fridge. We could drive that thing for days without stopping for fuel if we had full propane and gasoline.
 
healhustler said:
Fred: I can’t deny that I’m contemplating exactly that. After Cardude reminded me of the many successes of trolling motors on smaller tenders, I checked prices of some trolling setups, batteries and a goid battery box with internal breaker. A single 40 lb thrust trolling motor with internal battery monitor is more than enough. Add two deep cycle batteries and a hard case, all under $500. Could even add a cheap solar charger. It would definitely please the lady!
Click to expand...

Cap'n Larry.

Look up Newport trolling motors on Amazon. (Hint: use the link on my website to get there)
I was impressed.

The thing is, we are in Florida and will pay sales tax if ordering via Amazon. So once you have the price call the company direct and negotiate. They shipped mine for the same price as Amazon had listed.

The inner guts have stainless connections.
NewportWires.jpg


My friend Edwin took mine apart and shortened the shaft. Shaft is thick walled fiberglass.
The trolling motor is silent so sliding along a shoreline bird watching is fun.

Side Note: 15 pounds thrust equals one horsepower. These are not fast, especially in a heavily loaded dinghy. I consider it a fair weather option. That said, if the weather is bad I'm going to stay aboard Seaweed and relax until it gets better. I won't be in a dinghy.
 
Nuce tip, Cap’n Janice. Checking them out right now.
 
dhays said:
When I was a teenager my Dad bought a used 28’ motorhome. He wanted to use one for a 6 week family road trip, and rather than do the smart thing and spend the money to rent one, he was too cheap to do that so bought one for us to use, and then for the next 5-6 years he rented it out by the weekend or week. It saw lots of weekend use for snow skiing. I was the one that got to clean it up every time it came back.

It had two huge propane tanks slung lengthwise underneath. As you described, it had an electric switch that controlled a solenoid to the gasoline fuel tank and the propane tank. It ran well on propane but didn’t have as much power. Going up a really steep grade while loaded we would at times have to switch from propane to gasoline on the fly to maintain speed. The advantage my Dad saw was that Propane was cheaper, and you didn’t have to pay any road fuel taxes on it (if you bought it at the right place). It had a propane stove and fridge. We could drive that thing for days without stopping for fuel if we had full propane and gasoline.
Click to expand...

Dave,
Wonderful response re propane. I didn’t notice less power with the Buick but it wasn’t an underpowered vehicle either. Getting the ignition timing is somewhat important. As with milage propane engines make less power (less than 5%) but all the trucks at the workplace I mentioned seemed to have the normal amount of power. One was a 2ton Ford truck.
Interesting story.
 
Janice,
Interesting “15lbs thrust = 1hp”
Most of the electric OB motors have really poor propellers.
 
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