Stuffing Box Issue

Greetings,
Mr. OD. What's "underwear"?

I’ve posted this before but here’s for those who missed it. In 2008 my old T-shirt got caught on the shaft coupler while I was wearing it. In an instant I was pulled on to the shaft as my head slammed into the transmission. The T-shirt was ripped off in about 1/100 of a second. From the pictures you can see the burns and bruising that resulted as the T shirt was ripped off. Every time I look in the mirror I have a permanent reminder of how stupid I was and also how lucky I am. Needless to say we have a changed a few procedures.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. OD. What's "underwear"?

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In your case, may I suggest duct tape.

Larry M said:

I’ve posted this before but here’s for those who missed it. In 2008 my old T-shirt got caught on the shaft coupler while I was wearing it. In an instant I was pulled on to the shaft as my head slammed into the transmission. The T-shirt was ripped off in about 1/100 of a second. From the pictures you can see the burns and bruising that resulted as the T shirt was ripped off. Every time I look in the mirror I have a permanent reminder of how stupid I was and also how lucky I am. Needless to say we have a changed a few procedures.

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Larry I think you should share that on here once a year on a new thread

hate that happened to you but thanks for sharing

Mr. OD...

We were delivering my boat from Seattle to LA. Outside the Fallerons in 50 foot fog when one of my crew went to check the engine oil. We shutdown the port engine and left the starboard engine idling. He accidentally backed into the starboard engine alternator cooling fan. It cut a slot in his sweatshirt and ripped his t shirt out from under the sweatshirt. It didn’t really hurt him just some scuffed up area, but it took about 3 hours in 6 to 8 foot seas to clean the t shirt out of the alternator. Between the hot engine room and the seas, he lost his lunch two times... I think that he will never wear loose clothing into an engine room again. We framed the remnants of the destroyed t shirt and presented it to him.

Sabre602 said:

I would just caution anyone about getting near a spinning shaft. One brief moment of inattention (or an unexpected wake or wave) and any bit of clothing, hair, etc. will be spun around the shaft faster than a person can react. Some of the most horrible accidents I've ever seen were on farms where someone got a bit too close to a spinning power takeoff shaft.

I'll put mine in neutral mid-trip and go down below to feel the stuffing box.

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Yes I agree. Neutral or off for the period of checking as the engine(s) are still running.

Larry M said:

Or use an infrared thermometer temperature gun, ~$15 on line.

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I actually have one........Guess I should use it! Good catch TF!!

Larry M said:

Or use an infrared thermometer temperature gun, ~$15 on line.

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Bingo!

IF you insist of feeling something to see if it is hot, do so with the back of your hand.
The muscles in your hand contract and if it is too hot, your hand will pop off or pull away instead of contracting around the surface in question.

Do you know what kind of packing is in the gland you have? With the corrosion evident on the steel shaft you may have graphite packing in there. I don't see any type of bonding wire on the gland either. Is the system bonded?

In the picture you can see the new hose installed this season on my single screw trawler. That is the original gland on a 30 year old boat (albeit in fresh water). The green bonding wire is placed under a locking nut on one of the studs. The shaft has an isolating flexible non conductive coupling.

Rut Ro. . .

Friends, the idea of removing the water feed line to the non-leaking box - to confirm it was getting water did appeal to me. So I did that. One mediocre turn on the hose nut and I broke the 90 degree bronze elbow off like it was soft lead. Started the engine and sure enough - nice water pressure at the broken hose end.

However, I've now created a monster. Looking locally for pipe removal tool set and need a new elbow. Lesson to self - if it ain't broke (especially on a boat) leave it the hell alone.

NightCrawler said:

Friends, the idea of removing the water feed line to the non-leaking box - to confirm it was getting water did appeal to me. So I did that. One mediocre turn on the hose nut and I broke the 90 degree bronze elbow off like it was soft lead. Started the engine and sure enough - nice water pressure at the broken hose end.

However, I've now created a monster. Looking locally for pipe removal tool set and need a new elbow. Lesson to self - if it ain't broke (especially on a boat) leave it the hell alone.

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Better to find it now than to be away from the dock and discover, the fitting had broken off and the bilge pump was not keeping up with "leak".

The "fix" may be difficult and time consuming. Finding an 'easy out' will not be difficult but, we know you will need to be very gentle trying to back out the part. It may come out in pieces. (Hello shop vac.) You may need a 'bottoming' tap to chase the threads prior to installing a new elbow.

Now, upon installing the new elbow, attach everything to the boat's bonding system.

"Finding an 'easy out' will not be difficult but,"

Shop at any real plumbing supply house and the ez out and pipe thread tap will be available.

You are not the first to have this problem.

I wonder if that was a brass, not bronze. fitting. Plastic may be better. There is often some leverage on stuff like that from the attached hose.

I agree that it is better to find out now that it was ready to break than mikes away from a dock. Good luck with the repair.

Have been searching for bronze or even brass to use now. May go with plastic. No vibration or pressure to speak of. . .thanks all for the feedback!

NightCrawler said:

Have been searching for bronze or even brass to use now. May go with plastic. No vibration or pressure to speak of. . .thanks all for the feedback!

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DO NOT use brass in contact with seawater. Period. Bonding /grounding brass is irrelevant as the different alloys that form the metal (specifically, zinc) create electrolysis between the alloy components themselves in presence of seawater. The zinc is quick to leach out of the fitting, leaving a crumbling mess that disintegrates with no warning. Pinkish residue is a telltale. Cheap "bronze" or "red brass" from no-name sources can be just as risky. Nylon, despite being subject to shearing damage in extremes, is very tough, and immune to seawater. The brass forged fitting in the photo is a horrible choice in that application. I have experienced "bronze" fittings that simply disintegrated with just a tease from a pipe wrench. Just showed minor corrosion; it wasn't green but sort of yellowish pink. Chinese fittings. Good bronze won't break down.

I do not know if the following it true or just an old wives tail.

If you are going to "plastic", find the gray fittings.

Also, I am told black wire ties last longer than the other colors in the sun.

If either of the above are true, I do wish someone would 'spain it to me.

Ended up with Nylon. Had to saw the flare coupling off the feed line. Back in bidness.

Greetings,
Mr. NC. Good job. So how did you eventually remove the broken bit in the stuffing box?

NightCrawler said:

Friends, the idea of removing the water feed line to the non-leaking box - to confirm it was getting water did appeal to me. So I did that. One mediocre turn on the hose nut and I broke the 90 degree bronze elbow off like it was soft lead. Started the engine and sure enough - nice water pressure at the broken hose end.

However, I've now created a monster. Looking locally for pipe removal tool set and need a new elbow. Lesson to self - if it ain't broke (especially on a boat) leave it the hell alone.

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Pretty sure that’s a brass elbow and that you dodged a bullet. I had a similar issue and was not comfortable with using brass or plastic below the waterline. Could not find true bronze fittings in 3/8” to replace the original, so I drilled and tapped the hole into the stuffing box to 1/2” and installed true bronze, including a valve.

Is there any support for the new assembly with the valve?


Engine vibration and boat motion might eventually stress the 1/2 inch connection.

FF said:

Is there any support for the new assembly with the valve?


Engine vibration and boat motion might eventually stress the 1/2 inch connection.

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Far better supported via the larger threads and thicker material than the 3/8-inch brass fittings that they replace. Also, hard to tell from the photos, but the fittings are located where they are protected from falling or shifting objects, but still easily accessed to check for any impacts from vibration.

Also, if the original 30-year-old copper water tubes didn’t fail supplying this water, I won’t lose a lot of sleep worrying about cast bronze failing. th

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. NC. Good job. So how did you eventually remove the broken bit in the stuffing box?

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Couldn't leave it alone, 'eh RT? Now - the rest of the story. The nipple extractor simply removed layers of material until I was certain I was going to bore the threads out of the stuffing box. Fein tool, you're up. Cut the remaining material into three pieces. Had to hammer the sections out with a chisel.
Replaced the pesky elbow with Nylon, a reducer and hose barb to the engine feed hose - the one with the now removed frozen flare nut.
Yes, it leaked a bit on the first try. I had cut into some threads. 300' of teflon tape, reinsert - good to go. It ain't pretty. I did add support to the heavy feed hose. We'll certainly keep an eye on this and the other one.

We are all glad you discovered this while tied to the dock.
You got it working again. Now you have time to line up the proper parts so come winter or if you have to haul the boat for some other reason, I would strongly encourage you to have the yard redo it.

By the way, on my A/C SW pump, I have the same problem with two fittings.
I have yet to locate the proper seawater rated BRONZE fittings.
Last time, the two fitting "melted" internally over time, even though they are bonded. On the AT34, they use one Little Giant sea water pump (1500 gph) for the 2 A/C units. Last time, the fitting broke off in the SW strainer. I reached into my spare parts locker, retrieved the spare complete SW strainer and 2 more "incorrect" fittings. I was back up within 60 minutes. The removed strainer was renovated and put back into the spare parts locker. This has happened twice. Both times I was at the dock. Both times, I was in the engine room, working on the strainer. So far, I have been very lucky.
The bilge pump in the engine room is rated at only 1500 gph which means, it will only slow down the sinking. With the shore power and the solar panels charging the batteries, I hope the batteries will not go flat.

IF someone knows of source for SW rated BRONZE 3/4" straight fittings, PLEASE let me know!!!

Dan, indeed. I contacted a plumbing supply house and couldn't get the bronze. A source would be great to know. On that bilge pump thing - got to thinking an A/C crash pump might be a sound investment - recommendations?

‘Nipple Extractor’ sounds like fun. I gots to gets me wonna dem!

Old Dan:
That is how lucky boaters are made. frequent attention to stuff in the ER often finds things before they become problems and the owner becomes an unlucky boater.

Greetings,
Mr. NC. "Couldn't leave it alone, 'eh RT?" Of course not silly goose. Everyone can benefit from seeing how fellow TF'ers approach repairs. It's a win/win situation.
Thanks.

OldDan1943 said:

IF someone knows of source for SW rated BRONZE 3/4" straight fittings, PLEASE let me know!!!

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3/4” hose adapters? Groco, Buck Algonquin and others have them in true bronze.

https://www.deepblueyachtsupply.com/buck-bronze-pipe-to-hose-adapters

If you meant 3/8”, I’ve never been able to find them; there are plenty advertised as bronze, but they’re all brass—unless you order a crate full from China.