Still having troubles getting into my slip

Guys, this is my first full season at my marina and I love it! Last year after I bought the boat I came here in late August so I didn't get that much docking experience.

I'm still having a hard time on some days backing into my slip. Not fun! I drew a kindergarten level representation of my dock and slip.

My slip is represented as number 23. I'm at the last slip on starboard side when coming down my row. Each berth has 2 boats. My slip is a port side tie in and I dock stern in.

So obviously this depends on wind direction (there are almost no currents to contend with). Some of my usual problems are as follows:

Scenario #1. I'll line up too close to slip 22 and then when I make my swing it's too late. Then my bow is being pushed closer to slip 10 and I need it to be directly in front of slip 11.

Scenario #2. To avoid what happens sometimes in scenario #1 I'll be closer to the middle part of the fairway and then when I make the swing I'm really close to slip 11 which is fine but then I overcompensate and my stern is lining up with slip 24.

Scenario #3. I drive in, get in perfectly and don't even bat an eye! This scenario happens fairly often but I wanna increase my numbers!

Some more info. I have a single inboard with a left handed prop. I have a bow thruster also. I have never hit another boat and don't want to start now!

What would you guys do and don't do (by using the slip numbers as points of reference)? Another thing. Are there situations that require more than idle speed? Sometimes I feel like I need more throttle to give a quick burst in a certain direction but usually I don't do it and then lose valuable seconds and miss a chance to correct. Uggh!

South of Heaven said:

What would you guys do...

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Practice and practice some more. Not much damage can be done at 1 mph.

One thought on your use of power. I like going slow and normally find that simply going in and out of gear is adequate. However, at times you need to move the stern one way or the other. Full rudder and small shot of power in forward will move the stern sideways without changing speed very much.

I’m a little unsure as to how you are doing it. Are you driving down the fairway bow in and then making a swing to port to line up and then backing in? If so, your boat should be able to spin in place to port. You could go in slow, then helm hard to port and leave it there as go between forward and reverse. The left hand prop will turn your boat in place. Before you are completely lined up, start to back in. The stern will move to starboard as you back in so you would start to back up with the stern pointed at the finger between 22 and 23.

If you are trying to back down the fairway, it will be a harder turn to back into the slip as your boat will not really want to back to port.

Frankly, unless your boat is longer than the finger, preventing you getting off from the swim-step unless stern in, I would question why you don't just motor slowly in bow first. Just swing the bow in from out as wide as you can, (without risking catching the dink, etc, on the boats on the other side of the fairway), so as to just miss the end of your finger, then using the prop-walk, which sounds like it would pull the stern towards the finger, plus a bit of port-directed thruster, gently dock.
You said left hand screw, presumably that's in forward gear, so right hand, pulling towards the dock in reverse. Add in some bow-thruster to keep the bow drifting away from the finger, just dock st'bd side to the dock, bow in. Usually much easier than reversing into a berth, especially if you have the bow thruster, and getting out is usually no big deal then either. Have a midships spring line you can grab and put over a midships cleat, and Bob's your uncle. Slow idle fr'd or rev. holds you against the dock while you leisurely complete the setting of other lines, impressing folk no end with your skill.

I dock this way - always have, and I have no thruster. Backing out is a breeze. Just slow astern, until nearly to other side, then forward gear, (in your case) rudder right hard over, and give it a decent blip on the throttle, kicking the stern to port - might need to inch back and repeat, helped by some port directed bow thruster, depending on wind strength and direction, and then straighten up and away you go...

It's a little hard to describe but here goes.

Your rudder and prop can be thought of as a stern thruster. Let's say you've missed the line up for 23 and you're lined up on 24 trying to back in. Relative to your bow you're too far 'right'. You need to 'slide left'.

Stop your fore / aft motion. Hard right rudder and poke her ahead. Before you gain any appreciable headway your stern will swing 'left'. Now back easy and thrust the bow to the left. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Backing in easy is key. You won't get into much trouble and the bow thruster will still be effective.

As Seasalt says, practice. A lot. You'll learn your boat and it will become 2nd nature.

Try to use minimal throttle. Learn to let things happen instead of forcing them to happen. If observation says things are drifting the way you want, let it happen at it's own pace. Learn minimal use of the bow thruster.

Any cowboy can learn to come in hot and work the thruster till it trips out. The skilled boat handler does it gently with minimal effort.

And finally, when it starts to go wrong, don't fight it too hard. Leave and make another approach. The only damage will be to your ego.

First, it is about the prop walk. If you can make your prop walk your friend, you can then go anywhere you like.
Secondly, in reverse, your rudder will not affect the direction of travel until your speed increases so there is lots of water pushing against one side or the other. Especially true if your rudder is small.
So the technique involves going down the channel till you get close, turning the rudder hard to port, going into reverse, so the propwalk pulls the stern to stb and the prop pulls the stern back into the slip. If you are too far to stb, put the rudder over to Stb and leave it there. A burst of fwd will push the stern to port, then some slow reverse will pull you into your slip.
Practice
Practice

The number one trick in driving a boat or aircraft is recocognizing when a correction is needed.

Inexperience doesnt allow for it and the longer one waits to make a correction, the more drastic (speed and/or angle) needs to be or aborting the attempt should hapoen at some point.

So yes using more throttle at times can be a good or even only solution when conditions dictate.

Almost every day I watch people docking and I cringe when a correction should be made and it isnt. The better captains recover, many dont and become a sideshow or a crash.

Its a combination of knowing how the boat handles and experience.

If it were my boat and slip, I would probably be pulling in instead of backing into the slip....especially with a left hand prop. With a thruster, I might back in, but then the thruster becomes more important than the natural tendencies of the boat. Another alternative might be a system of spring lines that I would have to pkay with to see what works with that boat the best.

South of Heaven said:

I have a single inboard with a left handed prop.

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Do you mean your prop spins counter-clockwise in forward?

Does your prop walk your stern toward starboard or port, when in reverse?

-Chris

ranger42c said:

Do you mean your prop spins counter-clockwise in forward?

Does your prop walk your stern toward starboard or port, when in reverse?

-Chris

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Prop wash in reverse is to starboard.

Yea, a LH prop tends to kick the stern to stbd in reverse.

All good advise.

I faced this same issue when new to my boat, and wanted to be able to back in or out of slips, tie on either side. I have a single, but both bow and stern thruster with remote.

The VERY BEST THING you can do is hire an EXPERIENCED captain and go practice with him (her... my first one was a lady). They will see the corrections that need to be made early and can guide you thru it.

After the lesson, practice more... and a month or so later, take a short refresher from them.

A few things....
Are you operating solo?
If you have a mate, practice with them... make it a team effort with known commands
and skills. Headsets work great.
If you don't, I could argue to have fenders on both sides of the boat.
Do you have a remote thruster? If so, have the mate run the boat and you operate the thruster and the lines. If not, see if you can get one... they're great.
Do you know fairly precisely how much walk both fore and aft you will have with a given amount of thrust. (I could argue 1 sec of thrust at a time).

And, yes, there's times when a burst of power, or more power over a longer period is necessary and makes things easier.... especially if a bit of wind comes up.

Another thing.... if this is your permanent slip and you're gonna be there awhile, consider a stern thruster. They are not as effective as the bow thruster, but absolutely great for nudging over a few inches to line up instead of a back and fill which can put you out of position. I know the die hard will say that's cheating, but for backing in, I LOVE my stern thruster and has saved my bacon a few times.

Now, because you've already done it perfect a few times, it's only a matter of recognizing how to maintain that perfect approach before things go bad.... again, that's what the instructor is for.

I am not Superman when it comes to docking my AT34.
I have seen some 80 and 100+ foot boats, take 2 or 3 times to back into their slip.
Three bits of advice;
1. Neutral is a gear, use it as necessary.
2. It is permitted to "lean" against a piling when docking.
3. Practice.

I do not know of one boat operator who is not "excited", to some degree, when docking or undocking the boat.

Remember not to 'catch' your fenders on 'things' when undocking. It will spin the boat, this I know.

Corrections will be gratefully appreciated.

I've been backing in too . and also have trouble in any wind .I should probably redo my lines for bow in . I don't have a thruster . the only thing I can offer as help is my old boat turns best if you get it move backwards at a fair rate and rudder hard and put power to it. It will usually turn what I want it to with out moving forward.
also for me still getting used to a single that dead end would worry me getting out with the bow in. mine bow blowing down wind is most of my problems. I guess a 10 boat unit thruster would help that .

Another beginner mistake is overreacting or applying the wrong correction.

Momentum csn be a valuable tool.

Some boats like mine (single, no thrusters, big rudder) ..... when backing and approaching a knot or two.....will start to answer helm almost as much as prop walk.

When trying to back the opposite of prop walk, taking it out of gear and waiting for the boat to answer the helm may be the better solution. But so often people suggest more power which can induce more prop walk, when momentum with just rudder can work great.

Because this can be very boat specific, several methods need to be explored, not just the advice of someone who may be great with their boat, but not experienced with many.

timb said:

I've been backing in too . I guess a 10 boat unit thruster would help that .

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What is the length of your boat?

I had a very small bow thruster on my N46 and almost ended up on the rocks while undocking on a windy day. Luckily, some owners saw my predicament and came to my aid. I took it to a yard and they put in a 24vt 20hp bow thruster with duel props. They wired it so the truster had 24vt when using the bow thruster. Very impressive.

What is after your dock - a sea wall or turning basin?

The creek where I dock is too narrow for me to turn the boat around. So leaving I have to back out about 2-300yds. Single with a thruster, RH prop. Basically I steer with the thruster. Use a little fwd with rudder to get away from the bulkhead, then center the rudder and back out. Steer the bow with the thruster. Works like a champ.

Ski in NC said:

So leaving I have to back out about 2-300yds.

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Back 200-300 yards straight without hitting anything or running aground? You be da man!!

Ski is correct. My experience with a thruster is a 50' canal boat and it backed up very nicely with the bow thruster. Start your momentum backwards then ignore the rudder and steer with the thruster. No limit to the distance you can go. In a canal you have fixed limits and sometimes you have to back up a long way to find somewhere wide enough to turn around.

Remember, in a boat, the rudder ONLY steers the stern and the thruster ONLY steers the bow.

All good thoughts and techniques above.
Another technique to keep in tool bag might be to pre position a spring line at the outer most piling...grab it with a boat hook and back against it into the slip.


https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013/February/docking-with-spring-lines.asp

psneeld said:

Another beginner mistake is overreacting or applying the wrong correction.

Momentum csn be a valuable tool.

Some boats like mine (single, no thrusters, big rudder) ..... when backing and approaching a knot or two.....will start to answer helm almost as much as prop walk.

When trying to back the opposite of prop walk, taking it out of gear and waiting for the boat to answer the helm may be the better solution. But so often people suggest more power which can induce more prop walk, when momentum with just rudder can work great.

Because this can be very boat specific, several methods need to be explored, not just the advice of someone who may be great with their boat, but not experienced with many.

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Excellent advice. Try backing when away from your slip and see if you can get some steering in neural if you have some speed. Some boats with large rudders can be steered very well at speed in reverse. Once you gain control in neutral sometimes you can go into reverse at low rpm to maintain speed. Too much rpm will overcome steering though.

Lots and lots of good advice on here from skippers.
The way I teach (mostly wives as husband and wife instruction usually ends up with hot tongue, cold shoulder and withdrawal of conjugal rights for a month).

I start by carrying out the manoeuvre myself slowly with a commentary, then I let the pupil do it 3 times under my commands, I then let the pupil do it twice giving me a running commentary.
One more time solo and 99 times out of a hundred they're perfect.

Sometimes it the instruction is wasted when the husband starts to interfere when the lady is carrying out the manoeuvre, words become heated, the pupil tells him to put his boat where the sun don't shine and its back to cold shoulder etc.


Ladies actually make very good skippers because they have no 'Macho' image to uphold and no preconceptions.

One important aspect of using a bow thruster is to know your boats pivot point. I would test this outside of your fairway. When you apply thruster on the bow keep in mind it is not only swinging your bow but your stern in the opposite direction. When you determine the pivot point of your boats rotation you’ll have a much more accurate sense of when and how much thruster to apply.

Tamrow said:

One important aspect of using a bow thruster is to know your boats pivot point. I would test this outside of your fairway. When you apply thruster on the bow keep in mind it is not only swinging your bow but your stern in the opposite direction. When you determine the pivot point of your boats rotation you’ll have a much more accurate sense of when and how much thruster to apply.

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https://youtu.be/NmIj7C1PGRM

Good example of backing out with no bow thruster.

Dan mine is 38.but I can't afford a thuster

Tamrow didn't mean to quote you.using phone

I really like psneed’s comments above. I think his suggestion to simply dock bow in is a very good one. Of course, there may be important reasons why you can’t, but you would find that it would be a lot easier to go bow in. Then when leaving, back out to starboard and back out the full length of the fairway.

timb said:

https://youtu.be/NmIj7C1PGRM

Good example of backing out with no bow thruster.

Dan mine is 38.but I can't afford a thuster

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Tim, I understand. My AT came with a bow thruster and stern thruster.

Much good advice above, but the one suggestion I don't see is to change slips. I'm not saying it's time, but if one has a slip that they really struggle with due to location and configuration and boat characteristics, then don't fight it indefinitely. It will lead you to not boating to avoid facing it. At some point, it's time to say you want a different slip.

BandB said:

Much good advice above, but the one suggestion I don't see is to change slips. I'm not saying it's time, but if one has a slip that they really struggle with due to location and configuration and boat characteristics, then don't fight it indefinitely. It will lead you to not boating to avoid facing it. At some point, it's time to say you want a different slip.

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I am buying a smaller slip for 3 reasons.
1. My AT34 rattles around the 75ft slip I currently own
2. It is 40 slips closer to the gate and when the golf cart service is not running, it is a long walk, both ways.
Finally #4, when I sell this slip, I can pay for the smaller slip completely and and pay taxes on the excess amount. I am soooo friggin lucky, I get to pay taxes.
Oh joy, oh joy.

SoH,

I feel your pain!

I am only now starting to feel somewhat comfortable maneuvering into our own very tight slip.

Some ideas that really helped us:

-Read the Camano Owners manual under boat handling... (page 11 I think) It has some great information in a very simple, easy to understand format.

-if I understand, you are doing a port side tie, when you back into your slip. Our boats are (again from the manual and experience) best suited to a starboard tie (especially from the lower helm). You may either want to go in forwards or see if another slip is available..though you may have your reasons for the port side tie and reversing in


-“Chapman’s Piloting and Seamanship” has some great info on boat handling - a great resource which I stumbled into when it was gifted to me

- I found sidling up to a wide open lateral dock and practicing moving the boat sideways was really useful in terms of learning the handling characteristics of the Troll. As others say ...practice is key.

Good luck! Your posts on your Troll are always interesting...