Creating an oil change system

I have a topside vacuum pump which is manual, but always wanted something better, but did not want to pay the money.

So over the years I have collected bits and pieces and now I am doing it. Boat came with an old electric water pump, an FP0F360AC, which wore out and I repaired with nitrile impeller and shaft seal.

https://www.amazon.com/Flotec-FP0F3...UTF8&qid=1527770727&sr=1-1&keywords=FP0F360AC

So since it can now pump oil, I plan to use it to pump engine oil out. I threaded the inlet and outlet to use NPT 3/8 pipe threads, and a Y and getting some 3/8 ball valves ($1.61 on ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gold-tone-...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 ).

Rubber 3/8 oil hose or marine fuel hose will run down to the oil drain plugs on both engines. Before I get into more money I will test the idea. Plan is to permanently mount the pump in the bilge and pump the oil into a 5 gallon bucket. The pump and Y will not be more than 1 foot above the oil level in the engine pan.

So waiting on parts.

Will that pump be able to prime itself and pull warm engine oil?

Here is what it looks like so far. I have the pump foot off soaking in vinegar for removing rust.

one pic shows pump, other shows the adapters which will screw into the oil pan.
My oil pan uses NPT pipe plugs.
If it works, I will drill the center hole bigger and add a 1/4 tee with 2 more valves, one to drain the gen, the other with a loose hose to drain anything else, maybe antifreeze or oil left in my filter bypass canister.

Add a fitting for a temporary hose to change transmission oil.

bayview said:

Add a fitting for a temporary hose to change transmission oil.

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Yes, another worthwhile use.

My Detroits were plumbed with manual pumps and a hose running from each oil pan to a pump on each engine. I changed the oil once with the manuals. It took a lot of strokes to pump out the 16 liters of oil in each engine.
I bought a Jabsco electric oil pump and some hydraulic quik-connect fittings. I removed the hoses from the manual pumps and screwed on a quik-connect to each hose. I added a quik-connect fitting to the new oil pump hose. My Jabsco came pre-mounted to a plastic pail lid. Now when I do an oil change, I just snap the pump hose to the engine hose, plug in the 12V pump and pump out the engine into a plastic pail. I then re-fill the 4 liter oil containers with used oil to be recycled.
Hydraulic fittings are fluid-tight both male and female, unlike air fittings that are only airtight on the female coupling.

yes that will work. i use one at work for small oil changes(less than 5 gal). they are not the fastest but as long as the distance its pulling from isn't over about 10ft it should be fine. also you might want to add a ball valve at the oil pan. last thing you want is for a hose to fail with no valve.

My oil change pump is connected to a manifold, and both engines and both gears have hose to that manifold. It works well. My engines take 20 litres, so i always keep one empty container on board to pump into. Then once the engines have new oil there is still a container left. No spills!

1/4" hose seems small to me. My system uses 1/2". Can't tell from the photo; what size fittings are in your pump? You should stay with the same size all the way through. If the pump has 1/2" or 3/8" ports you may burn the pump out if you go smaller.
John

I plumbed in my engine pan drains, each with a valve to a 1/2" main line with a gear pump. From there to a holding tank. The tank can be pumped out thru a deck fitting at a commercial fuel dock. But now I centrifuge my oil and send it back to the engines.

johnma said:

1/4" hose seems small to me. My system uses 1/2". Can't tell from the photo; what size fittings are in your pump? You should stay with the same size all the way through. If the pump has 1/2" or 3/8" ports you may burn the pump out if you go smaller.
John

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I am planning on 3/8 for the main engines, and 1/4 for the gen and the extra line. Its pumping oil so oil is a good lubricant, i dont think the pump will burn out the impeller. Inside the port on this pump narrows into a smallish rectangular opening.
One concern I had was lift, it is easier to lift fluid in a smaller diameter hose. And lots of oil pump systems use 1/4" small tubing dropped down the dipstick.

Pump has 3/8" NPT pipe attached, I threaded them in. Or the pump can use a garden hose.

A good idea to put a valve also on the engine, but one engine is a very tough reach. I am going to have to contort my body to get it installed. Its not really different than on the transmission which has oil cooler lines which if they fail would drain out the oil and never seen it yet and those are under high pressures.
Also I don't know how durable those Ebay valves are or how resistant to hot oil, I would not want them to start leaking in a spot hard to deal with. I will put one on the gen drain as it is a long run back to the pump, so that is a good test. I think I have some 5/16 copper line I can use to run a line to the gen, with some short sections of hose at each end.

Each main engine holds 7 qts, the gen holds 4 qts.

If you have a water pump which uses this very common sized impeller and want to use it to pump oil, then you need a nitrile impeller as most will ship with a neoprene impeller.

So here is the link, and you get 2 impellers and shaft seal.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N3ST1QE/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This weekend, I plan to test the pump and see if it can pump engine oil, and how much lift etc.... The oil will just be room temp not hot, and will try 3/8 hose.

I do have another possible pump, it is a Holley Red marine fuel pump that uses 3/8 ports. Which on another forum someone uses to pump waste oil. My guess is that pump would have less suction. If 3/8 does not work, I can test 1/2 inch hose.

I have encountered more than a few marinas that will take used oil, but only in capped 1 gallon containers. They no longer handle bulk oil.

Something to consider if you change oil on the road, and presently pump into only a 5 gallon container.

No big deal but I dont use my bulk container anymore, it goes straight into jugs.

I would love an oil change system, but replacing the drain plug with a valve or. “T” scares the crap outta me. Anyway, are you going to refill oil back thru the drain plug or put another fitting in as a filler?

And a question about the manifold pic above. Do your engines and trans take the same oil spec? Is there a tank of oil stored onboard or do you drop a hose into a bucket of whatever oil you need, set the manifold and push Start? I assume the pump is reversible?

Tom.B said:

I would love an oil change system, but replacing the drain plug with a valve or. “T” scares the crap outta me. Anyway, are you going to refill oil back thru the drain plug or put another fitting in as a filler?

And a question about the manifold pic above. Do your engines and trans take the same oil spec? Is there a tank of oil stored onboard or do you drop a hose into a bucket of whatever oil you need, set the manifold and push Start? I assume the pump is reversible?

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It is just to be used for draining. Interesting idea about being used for filling too. The pump is not reversible, to make it so just overcomplicates things. If I could figure that out, I might want to try it. If the motor could run backwards, a gear oil pump could reverse also a rubber impeller pump. A diaphragm or centrifugal pump cant.

Does seem possible, the residual oil left in the system should be so small as to not make a difference.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/reversing-universal-motor-146198/

Your transmission oil hose is under heat and lots of pressure, and in a constant oil bath, and it is very reliable and tough hose. Connected to the engine drain plug, there is minimal to no pressure, maybe a little less heat too, such a hose should be fine. You could have a hydraulic hose made for you which is super tough hose, but is overkill. The other end is above the oil sump level, so even if the valve failed there, oil wont leak out.

I also at first a couple years ago, was kinda leary of this idea, but I changed my mind.

"But now I centrifuge my oil and send it back to the engines"
Lepke, I understand getting the crud out of the oil, but how do you replace the additives that need to be in the oil?

At 9 mins in, shows how to reverse rotation of a brushed motor. You just flip the two brush wires.

My AT came with the Reverso oil changing system. It is a 'clean' installation and the valves are clearly marked.

BIG CAT said:

yes that will work. i use one at work for small oil changes(less than 5 gal). they are not the fastest but as long as the distance its pulling from isn't over about 10ft it should be fine. also you might want to add a ball valve at the oil pan. last thing you want is for a hose to fail with no valve.

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Yes, I forgot to mention each engine already had a shut-off valve mounted at the front of the oil pan. The pull is only 3' from pan to pump so it is fairly quick. I ran the engines for 15 minutes to warm the oil up a bit. One lesson I learned was, don't take the new oil to the boat and leave it on deck overnight in near freezing temperatures. It was like pouring syrup into the motors! I'm seeing some very interesting and tidy installations on this thread!

Pump works great with 1/2" hose. So I have to use that.
When using 3/8 hose, pump is very slow. I suppose the pump is starving because of the room temp oil is too thick.
Oil also looked like air churned.

Using 1/2 hose, oil looked more like oil.
I tested with Mobil 1 15w-50 oil and it is 80* outside.

I tested 3/8 hose with water and it blasted out the end.
Pump easily drew oil up a foot. I think even several feet would be fine.

Found the right size hose, 12 feet gives me enough for both sides.
I plan to buy 4 1/2 inch full port ball valves that are made for oil.

Total cost is around $60 to make what I have function.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000HE5G0...8a75-a582b9231c63&ie=UTF8&qid=1527982386&sr=2

4 valves actually rated for oil.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B002WEJL16/ref=dp_olp_new_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=new

I pump my old oil into 1gal jugs (the ones I buy it in) cap off and take to the dump and a recycle tank. Or at our marina into a tank of several hundred gallons (estimated) at the LaConner marina in Wa.

I can’t relate to all this trouble to save an hour’s work every month or so. My boat is small at 30’ and only has 5 qts of oil like a car. But I have a built in manual pump (that was part of my Yukon Engine installation) but most bigger boats are just having more oil.

But I can relate to engineering a system like this. The challange. The hours of contemplation and the final execution of installation is the stuff of an interesting life. As most of you know I like to make modifications to mechanical things.

I concur with Willy so much work for so little gain and complicated approaches to problems that dont exist only cause bigger problem in time. All those pipes and valves and things just to drain a few liters of oil ???

Its like why not, if you can, go for it, if your able. I like the challenge, it is entertaining. I like the idea of easier oil changes.

I may only use 3 valves, run a temporary 1/2 inch vinyl tube over the salon floor to the gen, instead of a permanent install of a hose. On the gen, I have easy access to the oil pan, the filler cap is low down.

Sdowney, glad you've settled on 1/2" hose. Your comment about the oil lubricating the pump so it doesnt burn up is a little off base. The reason a pump burns up with small hoses on the suction is that you will be drawing too much of a vacuum at the pump inlet and that will cause internal cavitation which will cause the impeller and housing to fail.
John

sdowney717 said:

Its like why not, if you can, go for it, if your able. I like the challenge, it is entertaining. I like the idea of easier oil changes.

I may only use 3 valves, run a temporary 1/2 inch vinyl tube over the salon floor to the gen, instead of a permanent install of a hose. On the gen, I have easy access to the oil pan, the filler cap is low down.

Click to expand...

Hot oil and vinyl tube and fittings ? that's going to be fun

gaston said:

Hot oil and vinyl tube and fittings ? that's going to be fun

Click to expand...

If it does not work out running to the gen, I can do something different. The pump worked well even on room temp oil. My gen is way back under the aft deck hatch.

Here it is. It wont be permanently in use.https://www.lowes.com/pd/EASTMAN-5-8-in-x-20-ft-PVC-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing/1000365035

Other idea for gen, I have lots of 1/2 inch copper pipe and the softer annealed copper tube, that would need to go into the bilge and run to gen.

The PVC hose might harden-get stiff with oil usage.

If you want a ~free vacuum source and have an electric [or other] motor on hand I saw a clever idea on a Japanese portable firefighting unit.
They used a brake vacuum vane pump from a diesel car alternator and a cam to tighten the drive belt with a small cup mounted above the pump for the pump lube oil, worked a charm and will last 100 years.

Greetings,
Slight thread drift alert:
Mr. DNZ. Could you elaborate somewhat on the brake vacuum pump. It sounds interesting but I have no idea what you're talking about.


Mr. 717. I wish you the best of success but I wonder how firm that plastic tubing will remain when in contact with hot oil. It may soften to the point of collapse on the suction side.

I worked with that type of tubing whilst "in the lab" and to soften it enough to slip over a pipe/hose nipple I simply soaked it in hot tap water and it got plenty soft. Probably not much over 150F. Wear your safety equipment.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Slight thread drift alert:
Mr. DNZ. Could you elaborate somewhat on the brake vacuum pump. It sounds interesting but I have no idea what you're talking about.


Mr. 717. I wish you the best of success but I wonder how firm that plastic tubing will remain when in contact with hot oil. It may soften to the point of collapse on the suction side.

I worked with that type of tubing whilst "in the lab" and to soften it enough to slip over a pipe/hose nipple I simply soaked it in hot tap water and it got plenty soft. Probably not much over 150F. Wear your safety equipment.

Click to expand...

Running to the rear gen, I found it will be easy enough to slip in about 6 or 7 foot of 1/2" soft bendable copper pipe. My plan is to not run the engines till oil is full hot, just warm them up. On end of copper pipe will clamp a short section of that vinyl PVC cheap hose and can open the oil fill which has the oil level sitting an inch below that on this Onan generator. Stick tube end in and have it sucked out.
This gen has an old style can filter with a lid. So when I pull off the lid, the permanent filter can retains some oil, I can drop the tube in there and suck it dry. It does not leak oil out of that bypass filter when you unscrew the top, but it leaves some left in the canister which I would like to remove.

I have same bypass oil filters on propulsion engines, (main filters are screw on), so same idea for them. Plus someday will desire to suck oil from velvet drives. I recently looked at the oil in them, and it looks like new, and that oil is at least 8 yrs old. So also need a hose for that.

I am less worried about hose collapsing than maybe making a mess. Vinyl hose is cheaper than buying more of that oil rated hose. I have read the vinyl hose may harden after exposure to oil over time.

Still waiting on parts from China, (304 SS pipe nipples and one 1/2 inch tee). Some may not get here till middle of July.

The Amazon valves and hose are real good quality.

I am thinking just one more time with the topsider oil extractor, BUT, it's hand pump failed. The leather cup rotted... , I always hated the thing. So I cut a large metal washer from an old fuse panel, put an HVAC type valve screwed in, (had to split a nut in half to hold in the valve to the metal plate). And can use my HVAC pump to create the vacuum.

I actually had two of these, and the vacuum pump failed on both, I think they are not very well made. So this gives me two large 2 gallon containers for used oil. The electric vacuum pump has been very reliable.

I can also still use this for the lawn mowers, etc...
And this thing always had a piece of vinyl hose, although 5/16 or 3/8 not 1/2 but never collapsed.

Sometime in July, I will post a picture of the piping manifold and pump setup.

Finally got all the bits and pieces, but don't yet have the time to install and configure it.

This is the basic manifold design. The rear copper tube will extend back 8 feet to the gen. Two valves for each engine, and a third for sucking trans fluid or whatever you want. basically this will lay on top of the stringer.

Front fitting will have a short section of hose to the suction pump.
Someday I might even play around with reversing pump rotation with an on-off-on double pole switch to also fill the sumps, if I ever feel like I got nothing better to do.

The shiny silver bits are 304 SS from Ebay seller. the short nipples were excelently made, the tee, is overcut slightly, the nipples bottom out too far into the tee, so they overcut the thread to deeply, but it will be ok. That tee was $2, and the ss nipples were $5 for all five pieces. Sometimes I wonder if some sellers are selling rejects, like they did not meet some standard. But for this no pressure app, not a problem. And I will use the Permatek #2 sealer on all the joints.

So many things happening are getting in the way of the boating.