Pairadice and ASD Columbia River Adventure 2018

AusCan said:

Having only experienced small little locks, I'm wondering how much turbulence and current you get in the locks there.

Our small little local locks are very tame, and I don't bother tying off. It's easy enough to give an occasional forward or reverse thrust if required.

I expect these locks with a big vertical differential would be moving a fair amount of water.

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Wifey B: Several different chances at turbulence. The first is when you're inside and water being drained or filled. Every lock slightly different, some do it faster than others so more turbulent. Also, varies based on where you are in the lock.

Then there's the chance of a commercial tow in front of you. Their engines at close range give you a lot of turbulence. If you don't stay tied and let them clear then you may get bounced around inside the lock and hit something.

Then there's the wind and current when the doors are opened. You've been in a protected cocoon. You might have been 80-100' lower and shielded when you entered and when the upper doors open very different conditions.

Then one last thing to be ready for. Ever walked from 8th to Broadway in NYC on W 56th St.? No, probably not. Well, on a windy day, you step out beyond the building on the corner and you might do a Mary Poppins. That can happen when you pull out of a lock. You're protected, then you're in a wide open space with a strong wind you weren't prepared for plus current and other boats.

Now, some locks can be wild and you do have to look out for people who have no idea how to operate a boat inside. Think of people who can't dock and then put them in this big room with you. I was in one on the TN river and the lockmaster told the pontoon boat to tie on their starboard side, to pull forward, and soon they were floating across so he said "port side, forward please." Well soon the boat was facing the wrong way and the guy about to tie and the lockmaster had to explain that wouldn't work when time came to exit. He had him tie to the bollard and then use the engine to swing around, then re-tie. The entire thing was like 15 minutes. One other boat said something ugly over the radio about the pontoon and they got in big trouble with the lockmaster. Lockmaster patient with pontoon but not with misuse of radio.

There are only a few rules when it comes to locking, but they are very important.

1) commercials go first then recreational boats.
2) Larger boats then smaller boats
3) tie the upstream end of your boat first. Then tie the downstream end.
4) release the downstream end first. Then the upstream end
5) every line should begin and end at your boat unless instructed other wise by the lock master.
6) no line should be fully cleated off until visual recognition that the bollard is free to travel.
7) no line should be left unattended in case bollarad hangs up.

tiltrider1 said:

There are only a few rules when it comes to locking, but they are very important.

1) commercials go first then recreational boats.
2) Larger boats then smaller boats
3) tie the upstream end of your boat first. Then tie the downstream end.
4) release the downstream end first. Then the upstream end
5) every line should begin and end at your boat unless instructed other wise by the lock master.
6) no line should be fully cleated off until visual recognition that the bollard is free to travel.
7) no line should be left unattended in case bollarad hangs up.

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Wifey B: I've been in locks where the lockmaster ordered different than your 1 and 2, so I'd say on those "unless instructed otherwise."

The Seattle ship canal large locks can easily hold 100 pleasure boats. You do not want to experience 100 boats in a confined box with 20% of the operators inebriated. More than once I have seen a bow sprit punch its way through a side window only to come back out with a souvenir.

Maybe there was a reason but in all federal locks the priority is
1-government Vessels
2-commercial vessels
3-recreational vessels

Sounds a bit crazy in some of those locks. Now I understand why there is some apprehension about locks.

Our local lock is much more sedate. It is self service with a remote control; usually on our own, or perhaps sharing with a few dolphins.

The locks on the Columbia and Snake Rivers vary in size from a max lift of about 75' (Bonneville) to 105' (Ice Harbor). When you're in the lock and they're lowering the water level there is not much current--it's like draining a bath tub. When you're being raised in the lock, the water coming in creates currents in the lock. When you're going up (We've seen Ice Harbor with a lift of 118') as much as these do in about 25-30 minutes that's a helluva lot of water coming in. It comes in at the bottom of the lock near the center and flows toward the ends of the lock. As it does it's pushing on your boat. If you have a lot of play in your lines and your boat is not snug against the wall it can bounce you around A LOT!


Also, as WifeyB noted, if the wind is howling and they raise the guillotine gate or open the doors the wind can be funneled into the lock through the venture and it creates a mess.


We were in a lock a few years ago, headed upstream so we were at the low water part of the lock operation. The wind was blowing about 30-35kts coming right into the lock on our stern. It was all I could do to keep the boat in centered in the lock so I asked the lockmaster to PLEASE close the gates to stop the wind. He did, the wind and chop stopped and we had no problem.



"Wifey B: Not jumping on your way, just saying it's not ours. We keep the line in our hands, looped around the cleat and held (hence always gloves). You mention bending over and that points out that location of cleats is very important to the method used. " On these locks it takes a good 25-30 minutes to go up or down and the lockmasters insist you tie up securely to the bollard. No holding the lines in these locks.


ASD "Question: I have a line that has a big big loop on one end. Would it be OK to toss this loop end over the bollard and loosely tie it to the mid-ship cleat in case you do have to let it go in a hurry? " That would work but if you had to undo it in a hurry you'd probably have to leave the lock on the bollard. Easier to just put the loop on your cleat and sling the line around the bollard and secure it. C'mon Tom, if my wife can do it I'm sure yours can also.


Irene "Are you guys expecting much debris in the water? " I haven't seen much debris in the water. We're 235 miles from Portland and if there was a lot of debris we'd see it here first.


AusCan "Having only experienced small little locks, I'm wondering how much turbulence and current you get in the locks there. " I've seen about a 1.5' chop inside the locks until they get the gates closed and things settle down. It's more the wind that makes the problems than the flow of water inside the lock.


Unlike the lock TiltRider is talking about, we seldom have more than one other boat in the lock with us, unless it's a club outing and we might have 6 or 8 others. In 20+ years of using these locks I've only been in the lock with a commercial tow about 3-4 times. When that happens, if the setup of the barges allows, the tug captain will let you leave first. Only once was I in with a tug where I had to go in alongside the tug and, because he had two barges wide in his tow, I couldn't pass him so he had to go out first. He was VERY gentle on the throttles and we got almost zero waves from him. Here's one from a year ago where we were in with a tug and two barges and we got to leave first.

This shot will give you an idea of the height of the lock. This was at McNary, 2 years ago. We're at the upper level about to be lowered, and you can see the lower water level over my wife's shoulder.

tiltrider1 said:

The Seattle ship canal large locks can easily hold 100 pleasure boats. You do not want to experience 100 boats in a confined box with 20% of the operators inebriated. More than once I have seen a bow sprit punch its way through a side window only to come back out with a souvenir.

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Wifey B: That is a one of a kind type lock and I advise before doing it, go watch it by land.

Now, Chickamauga during Riverfest is wild and the Ohio River can be a mob scene of boats, but both are just mild insanity compared to Seattle. Best to transit it during the week.

GFC said:

"Wifey B: Not jumping on your way, just saying it's not ours. We keep the line in our hands, looped around the cleat and held (hence always gloves). You mention bending over and that points out that location of cleats is very important to the method used. " On these locks it takes a good 25-30 minutes to go up or down and the lockmasters insist you tie up securely to the bollard. No holding the lines in these locks.

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Wifey B: Been on locks that took longer and no issue looping line around the Bollard then lightly tying it (figure 8) on the back cleat (firmly attached to front) and with it tied, continued to hold the line in your hand in case of any slippage or need to release or tighten or loosen. Not holding it in lieu of any tying but in addition to light tying. Floating bollards to me are the easiest set up.

Erie Canal is antiquated and you may get lines or pipes or cables and as you go up or down you may have to let line out or take it in.

Mississippi River is tough because of the current as you enter.

There are videos for most lock systems showing you how to navigate them.

Large locking with 100 pleasure boats is a rare event in Seattle but does happen on holiday weekends. The locks are open to the public and you can stand on the gates and watch all the insanity without having to participate.

GFC said:

John and Tom, here's what the bollards look like in all the dams on both rivers EXCEPT for Bonneville. Those have a weird setup where the part you tie to is a couple of feet higher than this setup.

Tom, note that we tie up using only a midship line, not bow and stern lines. Remind me when you call to explain why.

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Everything about the tie off in the picture is wrong. The lines should not be cleared/wrapped on the bollard. The line on the rail will rip off the railing if the bollard hangs up.

fryedaze said:

Everything about the tie off in the picture is wrong. The lines should not be cleared/wrapped on the bollard. The line on the rail will rip off the railing if the bollard hangs up.

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Not sure about cleating on the bollard (I don’t know locks at all) but I also thought about that rail when I first saw the picture. However, the line runs from the deck cleat, to the bollard, is cleated there, then is simply laying over the top of the rail. It is not attached to the rail and will not provide any stress on the rail.

fryedaze said:

Everything about the tie off in the picture is wrong. The lines should not be cleared/wrapped on the bollard. The line on the rail will rip off the railing if the bollard hangs up.

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From my RCMSAR training, the only thing "wrong" with Tina's method is the lock on the last of her figure 8s on the bollard. The free end should be held, not locked and dropped over the rail.
The securing of the line on the bollard should depend on friction, so if it isn't tight enough, another wrap will suffice. If locked, as in the photo, and jerked tight too many times, it may be impossible to undo.
Otherwise, I wouldn't criticize Mike or Tina, as they live this and know exactly what they are doing.

I was in Revelstoke last week, saw the snowpack that has to melt and come down past you guys. The current up there is lots more than what you see too.

dhays said:

Not sure about cleating on the bollard (I don’t know locks at all) but I also thought about that rail when I first saw the picture. However, the line runs from the deck cleat, to the bollard, is cleated there, then is simply laying over the top of the rail. It is not attached to the rail and will not provide any stress on the rail.

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After a closer look I see that the line is free over the rail, but that doesn't matter. If they are lowering and the bollard hangs up the rail and the cleat are coming off. As for cleating off to the bollard I have never seem it before. My observation is that folks attach a line to the mid cleat, run it around the bollard and back to the boat and hold on the cleat.

Now that I have studied the picture I see its absolutely wrong. If the bollard hangs up, the cleat is going to rip out. Once pressure is placed on the line there will be no way to get it off. The knife is the only option.

I am not being confrentational. People need to know the risks of not being able to release the line on a floating bollard if it hangs up.

Moving bollards makes it easy. I've not been on the Colombia, but on the Welland and St. Lawrence, some of which were 60' lifts. I would advise making a fender board. This is just a 10 or 12' 2x6 or 2x8 of rough lumber. Drill some holes for lines, hang it outside your fenders. The board is what scrapes on the rough lock sides, and will slide easier than your fenders. Going up, if there is pressure from the lock currents (serious pressure in the Welland locks) your boat is smashing the fenders into the rough concrete, and they are trying to tear themselves off the cleats. Going down the lock is draining and there is usually no pressure, but if there is the fenders try to climb over the rail. After one or two you get the hang of it.

The Welland was the worst: drive into a dark canyon, they throw lines down from 70' above. You are supposed to control the boat with these lines going straight up, which need to be tended and hauled in as the water rises. On the St. Lawrence there were two locks with the floating bollards, made it dead easy.

As someone pointed out, the line that goes over the railing is just there so she can grab it in a hurry if needed. She often wanders the bow to stretch her legs and get some sun but when we start to go up or down she's right there at her station at the cleat/bollard.

When the lock is either going up or down it's doing that at the rate of about 5' per minute. I doubt that if the bollard hung up, she wouldn't have time to unwrap the line even if it was just figure 8'd around the bollard horns, hence the knife. It's always attached to her pfd so she knows where it is and knows how to open it. Dock lines are cheap, I have lots, so if she had to cut one I really wouldn't care.





Guys (and WifeyB ) when Tina and I first met about 12 years ago she'd never been on a boat. Ever. It took her awhile to become comfortable going out on the deck when the boat was moving, and even more time to build her confidence in going through the locks.

Now, I joke that I have the best deck hand on the Columbia. I don't judge her on how fancy she is with how she does with the lines on the bollard, but I do judge her on how quickly she gets us secured.

Last year we were going through a lock. From where I drive I can't see her or the bollard so I just bring the boat up to where I think the bollard is and rely on her to give me directions if I have to move the boat. I asked her if I needed to move forward or backward and she replied "We're good!"

I asked her to let me know when we were secured so I could call the lockmaster on the VHF and let him know that. Her reply to me was "I just told you we're good. We're already secured."

So, as I said, I don't give brownie points for fancy knots. She gets extra points for how quickly she can get us secured. And she ain't half bad looking either!

And as I said earlier, I really don't care if the fenders get scraped up by the lock walls. These fenders are probably 15 years old, show lots of "battle scars" but still work well. I haven't had any guests comment on my fenders so I guess some things just are not all that important. They're like a tool--they're made to be used and when they're used they are going to have the marks to show for it.

Tiltrider, sounds like you have had the joy of going through the locks after Seafair....

mramoo said:

Tiltrider, sounds like you have had the joy of going through the locks after Seafair....

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Seafair, 4th of July, and Labor Day. Now I moore the boat in salt water and drive the car past the locks.

tiltrider1 said:

Seafair, 4th of July, and Labor Day. Now I moore the boat in salt water and drive the car past the locks.

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When you drive past do they make you have 50' lines in your car like they do on your boat?

GFC said:

When you drive past do they make you have 50' lines in your car like they do on your boat?

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No, but the homeless are more inebriated than the boat operators and there are a lot more of them.

Dock to St. Helens

Got off the winter dock around 1230. Heavy current all the way to St. Helens too. Lots of ship traffic too. Pretty bad when you get pasted by a bulk carrier. We had following seas with the wind a good stead 15kts. I am loving my new auto pilot.

Stopped at St. Helens marina to fuel up. We took on 287 gallons at $3 per gallon. From there we went to the city docks where they have electric and power. We like St. Helens as it is peaceful and folks just come down to the docks to see what is going on. So sitting on the bow enjoying a scotch and a cigar and everyone wants to know about your boat.

Left our home dock this morning and are now tied up at Govt Island a free dock provided by Oregon. We stopped at Donaldson Marine to top off the tanks, 195 gals. Last time we got fuel was Oak Harbor Wash last September.
The current isn’t as bad as I thought it might be but I suspect that as we get closer to Bonneville dam it will pick up a bit more. At 1600 rpm we are at 4.5 knots.

St. Helens to Gov't Island

Gave ASD a quick water rinse to get rid of all the pollen on everything. Help the Admiral too. left about 8:30. This was a good run. Heavy current, making about 6kts at 1500RPM. Once we got above the Willamette River the current died down a bit. Beautiful day clear skies and 82f. I was worried about the railroad bridge. Water was at 30ft. No need to swing the bride we had 3 feet to spare. I-5 bridge no worries.

As we were passing by the airport the Sheriff was conducting training on cold /river rescues, with the USCG hovering overhead.

We arrived at Gov't Island around 12:30 and was greeted by Pairadice and a cold beer.

We also have a fellow TFer here at the docks: Mur Sea

Life is good.

First pic is Warrior Rock and Light. Normally this is sitting high on a rock.

John & Tom,
I hope you have a great adventure. Watch out for the nets that are strung out into the river.

John and Tom, I hope to meet you while you're staying at Clover Island. I'll even buy a round....Klondike bars can make you thirsty! Safe travels.

Enjoying this. Neat to see my regular haunts from a visitor‘s perspective. Have fun!

schrater said:

Enjoying this. Neat to see my regular haunts from a visitor‘s perspective. Have fun!

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I was reading yesterday how most people have never seen all the tourist attractions in their home area. My thought at the time was that even when they've seen them, they haven't appreciated them like a visitor would. Maybe one should just go find some kids and bring them in and see it through their eyes. We recently hired someone who was from the delta of Mississippi and had never left that area until she got on a bus and came from there to Fort Lauderdale. She just went with us for six weeks from Fort Lauderdale to Boston. Probably the best part of the cruise was seeing things through her eyes and watching her excitement. It gives one a new appreciation.

Hope their perspective has given you a fresh view and renewed appreciation.

Gov't Island to Beacon Rock

Beautiful sunset. We said goodbye to the crew of the Mur Sea.

I love my auto pilot!!!! It was current all the way up the river. Both John and I was pushing only 5kts, sometimes 2 kts!

Passing under the power lines at Camas reminded us of the current in Canada. The 27 mile trip worked the AP a lot. The gorge is beautiful. It is different now because of the big forest fires last year.

Approaching the dock at Beacon Rock State Park the current pushed us up against the dock. The wind was clocking at about 20 mph. We will stay here for a few days. The ladies are going to climb the trail up to the top of the rock.

Then off to the first locks to get our cherry tossed aside!!

Anyone get the impression ASD likes his new autopilot? Each post has an "I love my autopilot" inserted.

Glad you're enjoying the use of it and you're using it now in an area where it benefits you only moderately. Just wait until you use it on the open sea. Imagine some of the long Alaskan runs.