Not strong enough for docking a bigger boat??

Steve91T said:

The use of the spring line sounds great but Ive hardly been in a situation where there was enough room. But I will try it next time I have room.

Click to expand...

I rarely have enough room to be in a position where I do not use a spring line.

Curious...when docking, how does one set up a spring line on bull rails?

Sabre602 said:

This is a timely thread. I am new to power (beyond small outboards) but had become proficient maneuvering my full keel sailboat. The Kingfisher is the opposite: all windage, little underbody. The prevailing wind blows us off the dock; getting out isn't bad, but coming in to the slip is, as my grandmother would have said, a bitch kitty. Donna and I are trying to figure out a system but the learning curve is indeed steep. Her safety is, of course, paramount, but I'm also sensitive to the fact that this is supposed to be relaxation, not an exercise in stress and frustration.

Off to practice....

Click to expand...

Never rule out overshooting the slip, reversing in the fairway and approaching from the other side into current or wind. I don't like tailwinds or currents.

In my case, I typically enter a slip bow first. A great option for me is to back in since I have twins.

RickyD said:

I had a 32' sail boat for 20 years. Upwind slip. No problems. Then I bought the 47' trawler...Oh, I also had 15 people aboard for witnesses.

Click to expand...

siestakey said:

It is a rule this has to happen with a large audience I think it is in the trawlers handbook page 66 line 6

Click to expand...

dhays said:

It is an adjustment as you say going from sail to power in that regard. You will get it. Just expect a few embarrassing moments and a few scuffs.

Click to expand...

Yesterday was a big open house that the Power Squadron had set up. Hundreds of folks hanging around, besides it being Mothers' Day weekend and the first Saturday of the year to be sunny and really warm. It was also the day that the in-laws were coming aboard...our first guests since buying Kingfisher and working on her all winter.

Without going into detail, I'll just say that it was my first ever experience having trouble handling a vessel and it was VERY embarrassing. I really have never had difficulty maneuvering any sailboat before...used to sail into the marina after a race, no engine, luff up into the wind and back her into her slip. Fancy stuff.

And I was a ham-fisted amateur yesterday. The 4 to 6 knots forecast were blowing 20, and that intimidated me. I started out by trying to back out of the slip having forgotten to untie the starboard bow line, and things went downhill from there. This was discouraging, and there were my in-laws on board and scores of folks on the docks shouting suggestions. EEK!

I felt so lubberly!

Crowds/observers are a distraction. Wonder if they were praying for you to look incompetent for their own amusement.

Sabre602 said:

And I was a ham-fisted amateur yesterday. The 4 to 6 knots forecast were blowing 20, and that intimidated me. I started out by trying to back out of the slip having forgotten to untie the starboard bow line, and things went downhill from there. This was discouraging, and there were my in-laws on board and scores of folks on the docks shouting suggestions. EEK!



I felt so lubberly!

Click to expand...

I did something similar in Poulsbo last year. Strong North wind caused me to use second bow line running from the side opposite the finger. Went to leave and was concentrating on getting out of the slip, making the turn in the fairway and get out without hitting anyone.

As I left I forgot that port bow line. As i am backing out the bow swung suddenly to port and we stopped. It was a bit interesting for a bit.

Wifey B: For those of you who forgot the lines, what was your significant other doing? Shouldn't you be checking behind each other? Also do any of you use checklists which include the lines?

As to the embarrassing times, who gives a flying f... it's part of the game and the ones who would disparage you are the ones who likely are far worse. Good boat handlers realize that s... happens sometimes. It's like the newbie jerks see someone run aground and they laugh and jeer, but experienced boaters think how easy it is, hope the people and boat are ok, and are thankful it's not them.

MurrayM said:

Curious...when docking, how does one set up a spring line on bull rails?

Click to expand...

Murray -If we had bull rails on our home dock, I'd leave the correct sized spring line tied off at the end of the dock finger, with the other end of the line placed for any easy grab while going bow in. Loop the other end over the midship cleat and turn rudder hard away from the finger. Gently tighten up the spring line and let it idle in fwd gear. The single line with fwd propulsion will hold the bow to the dock, and the fwd propulsion and rudder position will hold the aft of the boat hard to the dock.

If you don't have a midship cleat, you need one. Experiment to see where the best mounting position will be to hold the boat under this situation. I tied off on my stanchions and very gently tried different positions before deciding on about 2 feet forward of midship.

Once you get this worked out, you will wonder how you ever docked without it especially when wind/current is taking you away from the dock before getting a chance to tie off.

AusCan said:

Murray -If we had bull rails on our home dock, I'd leave the correct sized spring line tied off at the end of the dock finger, with the other end of the line placed for any easy grab while going bow in. Loop the other end over the midship cleat and turn rudder hard away from the finger. Gently tighten up the spring line and let it idle in fwd gear. The single line with fwd propulsion will hold the bow to the dock, and the fwd propulsion and rudder position will hold the aft of the boat hard to the dock.

If you don't have a midship cleat, you need one. Experiment to see where the best mounting position will be to hold the boat under this situation. I tied off on my stanchions and very gently tried different positions before deciding on about 2 feet forward of midship.

Once you get this worked out, you will wonder how you ever docked without it especially when wind/current is taking you away from the dock before getting a chance to tie off.

Click to expand...

Pre-tied line at home berth...good idea

Our boat is small enough that I use a similar technique as in the video below (stepping off & tying a line from our midship cleat first, with bow and stern lines at the ready) except the pace picks up when the wind is strong.


Haven't had an occasion where this technique has failed...yet.

Will try variations of the midship spring line / rudder hard away / forward idle method for when at the fuel dock or in a new marina when strong wind is pushing the boat off...remembering to jump off, tie line, then jump back on before putting boat into forward idle.

I've heard of people using grappling hooks or homemade rebar gizmos to snag wood bull rails long enough to tie the bow & stern lines...ever see this in action?

It's all very simple when there's no wind or current at an open dock. Lots of time to adjust lines in a clam manner.
A 20 knot wind blowing off parallel docks means you only have a second or two before you need to be secure, or make the decision to be reversing out. Otherwise you'll will be blown into the boat next door.

If the spring line is set up to the right length with a pre-made loop to go over the mid-ship cleat, then it's all quick and easy.

Throwing grappling hooks seems a bit hit and miss to me, But I expect their may be some real pro's out there.

psneeld said:

Dockhands at marinas are so used to pulling boats to the dock, its hard to make it look easy because they just want to git'er done.

I try to manuever the boat to them and iften they yell at me to stop, one dockmaster threw me out of the marina when I told him it was my docking, not his.

Click to expand...

On our winter trip, we often found dockhands that must have been deaf.

"Put this forward spring line on that cleat, please."

Dockhand takes line and stares at boat.

"Put that loop over that cleat, please."

Dockhand looks at cleat, no other moevment.

"PUT THAT LOOP ON THAT CLEAT RIGHT NOW, BOZO!!!!!!"

Sometimes dockhand begins to move a bit after that...

RickyD said:

We had a double loaded slip...

Click to expand...

This last trip was the first time we've been in a double-loaded slip with floating docks... and I found that a bit intimidating in a cross-wind with current issues.

I think it'd be easier after practicing if it were a home slip and we went in and out a lot, but the couple times in/couple times out at the marina where we were transients didn't give me a good feel for it yet...

-Chris

The point I haven't seen mentioned regarding "strength" is handling the lines and fenders.


Wife handles the lines and fender while I am at the helm.


Over the years we have moved up in size, now with a 60's 70+K in weight.


The fenders have gotten larger. The lines are larger and longer.


She and I have discussed, would she be able to handle the lines and fenders for a larger boat?


To me, that's where the strength and agility come in. Was visiting with a retired friend recently (he has a 70 ft boat). They have gone to using a day captain because his wife is no long able to handle lines and fenders.


I agree, hands inside the boat. Your not going to manually pull a boat of that size to the dock.


Just my thoughts

FootballFan said:

The point I haven't seen mentioned regarding "strength" is handling the lines and fenders.


Wife handles the lines and fender while I am at the helm.


Over the years we have moved up in size, now with a 60's 70+K in weight.


The fenders have gotten larger. The lines are larger and longer.


She and I have discussed, would she be able to handle the lines and fenders for a larger boat?


To me, that's where the strength and agility come in. Was visiting with a retired friend recently (he has a 70 ft boat). They have gone to using a day captain because his wife is no long able to handle lines and fenders.


I agree, hands inside the boat. Your not going to manually pull a boat of that size to the dock.


Just my thoughts

Click to expand...

So why not teach the wife how to dock the boat?

An excellent point that the captain should put the boat in the correct location. Line are for securing it there or further maneuvering such as springing.

caltexflanc said:

So why not teach the wife how to dock the boat?

Click to expand...

Great idea. Now let's convince her.

She has come along way, I have confidence she will learn and get there - more confidence than she has.

Every dock and boat is different but we have found that it is better to put fenders out after the boat is docked. Rub rails are there for a purpose.

AusCan said:

A 20 knot wind blowing off parallel docks means you only have a second or two before you need to be secure, or make the decision to be reversing out. Otherwise you'll will be blown into the boat next door.

Click to expand...

And of course that 20 knot wind doesn't stop once you reverse out either. You can very quickly trade one set of problems for another, and this one you weren't setting up for.

It's very easy for experienced people to say "if you struggle with it, you must need more training" but conditions vary constantly so unless you keep a captain on board with you for the first 4 or 5 years, you're going to run into new situations. Or sometimes just make a bad decision. You have to accept that as part of the learning and move on, but it's definitely hard with a big audience, or relatives on board, or somebody's nice big shiny vessel accidentally involved.

The best we've been able to figure so far is take it as slow as we can, and abort our plans quickly as soon as we're struggling. More than once we've decided to spend a few hours in the wrong slip that was easier to get into than damage something getting into our own.

BDofMSP said:

And of course that 20 knot wind doesn't stop once you reverse out either. You can very quickly trade one set of problems for another, and this one you weren't setting up for.

Click to expand...

We have all been there.
If you're ever at a marina with plenty of empty berths on a windy day, use the opportunity to practice docking at various angles in the wind, but also practice aborting your docking attempt. Often this is done when in a panic when not thinking clearly. Do it in a planned manner, and the skills will develop much easier.

BDofMSP said:

The best we've been able to figure so far is take it as slow as we can, and abort our plans quickly as soon as we're struggling. More than once we've decided to spend a few hours in the wrong slip that was easier to get into than damage something getting into our own.

Click to expand...

With very minimal clearances, benign conditions are mandatory.

Wifey B: If the slip don't flt, then you must split.

Sometimes it just can't reasonably and safely be done. Say so. Demand another slip or go to another marina. Normally as transients we get easy side ties but we've refused where dockmasters have tried to place us. Typically a location we could make it in, but if conditions weren't totally benign, we'd really have a problem exiting.

markpierce said:

With very minimal clearances, benign conditions are mandatory.

Click to expand...

That is a certainly tight fit, Mark. You wouldn't want oversized fenders. What do you do on the non-benign days?

Luckily it appears you have a fairly direct run into your slip.

BandB said:

Wifey B: For those of you who forgot the lines, what was your significant other doing? Shouldn't you be checking behind each other? Also do any of you use checklists which include the lines?

Click to expand...

I have used checklists, but in this situation, it wasn't that I forget the lines, I forget about the extra, normally not used line on the bow. My wife didn't see it as her station is in the aft cockpit handling the stern lines. So in this case, a checklist wouldn't have helped. Checklists are great for things like remembering to disconnect the power cord before leaving the dock etc...

ranger42c said:

This last trip was the first time we've been in a double-loaded slip with floating docks... and I found that a bit intimidating in a cross-wind with current issues.

Click to expand...

I've never docked where a line needed to go around a piling. I wouldn't have the first clue. floating docks are all that you find here and double-loaded slips are common. Often transients are put in empty double-slips. You get used to what you are used to.

MurrayM said:

Curious...when docking, how does one set up a spring line on bull rails?

Click to expand...

Are you talking about using them to assist in docking when coming into a dock or tying off to them after you are in place? If the former, it is hard unless you have access to the end of the bull rail. Otherwise, I don't know a way.

bayview said:

Every dock and boat is different but we have found that it is better to put fenders out after the boat is docked. Rub rails are there for a purpose.

Click to expand...

Maybe if you are docking in situations where you are up against pilings. The rub rail on my boat does no good on floating docks. Also, even if you did some up against a piling here, you don't want the rub rail to get chewed up by all the barnacles and muscles that are attached to the piling.

As such, we always set fenders before coming into the dock and then adjust if we need to (normally don't need to). If we are going into one side of a double-wide slip, we put fenders on the opposite side as well to protect the boat next to us.

dhays said:

I have used checklists, but in this situation, it wasn't that I forget the lines, I forget about the extra, normally not used line on the bow. My wife didn't see it as her station is in the aft cockpit handling the stern lines. So in this case, a checklist wouldn't have helped. Checklists are great for things like remembering to disconnect the power cord before leaving the dock etc...

Click to expand...

Wifey B: And to check for all lines :lol:...but still those things will happen.

AusCan said:

That is a certainly tight fit, Mark. You wouldn't want oversized fenders. What do you do on the non-benign days?

Luckily it appears you have a fairly direct run into your slip.

Click to expand...

That's not my home berth. My berth is a single slip which is oversized for the boat.

dhays said:

I've never docked where a line needed to go around a piling. I wouldn't have the first clue. floating docks are all that you find here and double-loaded slips are common. Often transients are put in empty double-slips. You get used to what you are used to.

Click to expand...

With your boat I don't think you would have a bit of an issue putting a line around a piling. Boats with decks lower to the water is when it gets hard

Pontoon boats and houseboats on pontoons (or very large ones with single engines) are still the most difficult docking I know. Ever spend time at a marina that rents one or both? So many people feel stupid not realizing that they're attempting what is the nearly impossible task for someone with their lack of experience.

dhays said:

Are you talking about using them to assist in docking when coming into a dock or tying off to them after you are in place? If the former, it is hard unless you have access to the end of the bull rail. Otherwise, I don't know a way.

Click to expand...

To assist in docking solo.

So far I’ve been able to get Badger to the dock, step off, tie the midship line to the bull rail, and get the bow & stern lines tied before either starts drifting too much.

AusCan gave some strategies a few posts ago for extra windy days