Wood Boat - Insurance and Pending dilemna

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BandB said:
Not with a simple new runabout on the lake. No paint. No anodes. No serious work for years. Then trade it. No interior to have bright work.
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Real live aboard trawler that
 
So the insurance company just got back to me with the salvage value

"The salvage value would be $3,000.00"

Darn. What a conundrum. Should I keep it? We have done so much dang work on it. Last summer we redid the teak decks and all of the brightwork is ready for finishing (I have not finished agonizing over what type of finish or to leave them unfinished). The engine room is nice and tidy. I have an engine (ford lehman from a tractor) of my own ready to go into it.

I wonder what I could get for it if I repower it?

Seems like a real pity to let it go to salvage. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will just do liability?
 
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Dang - mp... I feel for you. Hope it all works out for the best in long run. How's the hull fasteners? Been refastened recently? That in its own accord can elevate value of wood boat... both for keeping or selling-price reasons.
 
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mplangley said:
So the insurance company just got back to me with the salvage value

"The salvage value would be $3,000.00"

Darn. What a conundrum. Should I keep it? We have done so much dang work on it. Last summer we redid the teak decks and all of the brightwork is ready for finishing (I have not finished agonizing over what type of finish or to leave them unfinished). The engine room is nice and tidy. I have an engine (ford lehman from a tractor) of my own ready to go into it.

I wonder what I could get for it if I repower it?

Seems like a real pity to let it go to salvage. Does anyone know of an insurance company that will just do liability?
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A few companies do offer liability only- some do require a survey, especially on wood boats. Make sure you check what is (and what is not) covered, including pollution and wreck removal.

Repowering is as expensive as your mechanical skills . :)

Art said:
Dang - mp... I feel for you. Hope it all works out for the best in long run. How's the hull fasteners? Been refastened recently? That in its own accord can elevate value of wood boat... both for keeping or selling-price reasons.
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Art hits the nail on the head once again!
 
Simi 60 said:
Whilst I agree that a fiberglass boat most likely will have less maintenance the difference in the initial cost of purchase can possibly buy a lifetime of timber boat maintenance.

Your tin shed berth and every other year wax job will probably cost more than my maintenance costs for several years living aboard.

Just a berth here is over $1000/mth
Tin roofed ones are non existent but if they were available they'd probably be double, so $25,000/year.
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Simi, my every-other-year wax job runs me about $50 for the wax and a beer or two at the end of each day. I do it with the boat in the water and wax the hull from the dinghy. I take my time and enjoy the labor of love of waxing. Same thing with oil changes, impeller changes, etc. I love the DIY stuff that I can do on the boat.

My tin shed berth is 20' x 60' and runs me just a tiny bit north of $250 per month. Probably not much more than a smaller, uncovered slip in most areas of the USA.

And as to the "hundreds of thousands" that someone mentioned earlier, I bought the boat in early 2010 after it had been at the broker's docks for almost 2 years. Oh, and did I mention it was in Detroit where unemployment at that time was about 35% . If you know how flooring works, you know he had his own money tied up in the boat and was glad to see it go.

Bad timing for him, good timing for me.

After he took my trade in he said he was losing money on the sale but was glad to get his capital out of this boat. There were about ZERO people in Detroit looking at boats at that time so he was looking at holding it at his docks for probably another year or more. Not a good way to run a business and he knew it.

Things are not always as they first appear.
 
GFC said:
And as to the "hundreds of thousands" that someone mentioned earlier, I bought the boat in early 2010 after it had been at the broker's docks for almost 2 years. Oh, and did I mention it was in Detroit where unemployment at that time was about 35% . If you know how flooring works, you know he had his own money tied up in the boat and was glad to see it go.

.
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While the bottom fell out in NC boat sales in 2008 and the recovery was still slow in 2010 or so, I know a dealer in NC that purchased two truckloads of boats from a Michigan dealer about that time.
 
My Best Boat Buddies Yacht

Here is a beautiful boat that needs a new home!! ClassicBoatsNJ

The owner has had this boat since the early 1970's. I actually cruised aboard this boat in my younger days. He has just turned eighty and has moved to Florida, also he now owns a 1989 Grandbanks 42 they use alot in Florida and the Bahamas.

Lazy Lady has always had good care and is in commission, wet Winter stored in New Jersey. Last Summer they cruised her up the Hudson and points North for a few weeks.

The clock is ticking on this one She is ripe for the picking a relatively unmolested Admiralty 50 built by American marine ( The GrandBanks people) She is a woody has newer fuel tanks, interior soft goods, she is roomy and comfortable.

The owners interests are changing, he has sold most of his New Jersey property, Heck he may even sell you the slip she is in. Call the broker!!

Come take a look and make an offer you may be delighted to become the 3rd owner of Lazy Lady for a really low dollar amount.

I have nothing to gain by the sale of this yacht, except comfort in the knowledge she has found a new owner and my friend can enjoy his new boat and cruising time in the South.

Cheers JohnP
 
GFC said:
My tin shed berth is 20' x 60' and runs me just a tiny bit north of $250 per month. Probably not much more than a smaller, uncovered slip in most areas of the USA.

And as to the "hundreds of thousands" that someone mentioned earlier, I bought the boat in early 2010 after it had been at the broker's docks for almost 2 years. Oh, and did I mention it was in Detroit where unemployment at that time was about 35% . .
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Great if you are there and if that is the case I would have plastic as well if I could have got a plastic version of ours for even 5x more but, like I said, here anything plastic big enough to tick our boxes as a comfortable, totally unattached live aboard will cost a million plus and a berth will cost $1500/mth to park in the direct sun with a long walk to land.

We pay $5.00 us/ gallon for diesel here as well so that puts a dampener on big plastic with powerful thirsts, never did see any with 0.5 gallon/nm burn like we have.

Neither of us were prepared to give away another 20 years of our life working to get a plastic version of what we have now.
Take what we have and go now was the logical choice.
No one gets off this planet alive.
 
Pau Hana said:
A few companies do offer liability only- some do require a survey, especially on wood boats. Make sure you check what is (and what is not) covered, including pollution and wreck removal.

Repowering is as expensive as your mechanical skills . :)



Art hits the nail on the head once again!
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Do you know of any companies in particular that do this? Ive been googling but so far no luck.
 
So even though the insurance company put a $3k salvage value on the boat they are giving me a first right of refusal and letting me bid a lower amount .

So the question is - what is the value of a mortorless 1972 Grand Banks 32? Lets assume here that the hull, prop, propshaft, rudder and everything else is very sound. There is small patch of rot on the fly bridge right at where the ladder attaches to the fly bridge on the port side. Other than that the boat, if she had a fresh coat of paint on the pilot house and had the brightwork finished (all varnish has been removed and is down to bare teak) would look pretty terrific and would be in good shape.

I don't know, wood or not, this is very tempting to keep. i know some posters have said take the money and run and move on to fiberglass but as a rebuttal to that I have the following link for you. It just goes to show fiberglass has its own issues (or maybe boats are worth something in tip top shape). Boats are n expense no matter what!

https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/d/28-cheoy-lee-trawler/6541693097.html
 
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Would you have kept it if the motor had not failed? Do you still like the boat? If yes, you are halfway there.
What are the alternative replacements? What will they cost? What`s your confidence level about the possible replacements? Do you like them as much as the old boat?
You are getting an insurance what sounds like a total loss payout for an engine failure,and a chance to buy back in for less than the insurers scrap value. You are quite right about fibreglass, it has it`s own issues.
I don`t have the figures, but do the math. What will the used replacement Lehman cost, can you get one,are there hassles fitting it?
Good luck, hope you find a solution that works for you.
 
mplangley said:
So even though the insurance company put a $3k salvage value on the boat they are giving me a first right of refusal and letting me bid a lower amount .

So the question is - what is the value of a mortorless 1972 Grand Banks 32? Lets assume here that the hull, prop, propshaft, rudder and everything else is very sound. There is small patch of rot on the fly bridge right at where the ladder attaches to the fly bridge on the port side. Other than that the boat, if she had a fresh coat of paint on the pilot house and had the brightwork finished (all varnish has been removed and is down to bare teak) would look pretty terrific and would be in good shape.

I don't know, wood or not, this is very tempting to keep. i know some posters have said take the money and run and move on to fiberglass but as a rebuttal to that I have the following link for you. It just goes to show fiberglass has its own issues (or maybe boats are worth something in tip top shape). Boats are n expense no matter what!

https://ventura.craigslist.org/boa/d/28-cheoy-lee-trawler/6541693097.html
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What that proves is that boats can be well built or poorly built. By using various quality material choices and/or levels of professionalism in build methods. In other words... problems may [can or could] develop on a boat that has ample age. That includes wood, fiberglass, steel, aluminum, ferrocement and all other material types.

BTW... I don't recall your answer to my ask on post 63 if the hull [bottom] fasteners in your boat had been replaced and if so how long ago. In addition to rot and worms in wood as boat hull bottoms age, the material type and condition of fasteners is of monumental structural importance as well as $$$ value of the old boat.
 
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BruceK said:
Would you have kept it if the motor had not failed? Do you still like the boat? If yes, you are halfway there.
What are the alternative replacements? What will they cost? What`s your confidence level about the possible replacements? Do you like them as much as the old boat?
You are getting an insurance what sounds like a total loss payout for an engine failure,and a chance to buy back in for less than the insurers scrap value. You are quite right about fibreglass, it has it`s own issues.
I don`t have the figures, but do the math. What will the used replacement Lehman cost, can you get one,are there hassles fitting it?
Good luck, hope you find a solution that works for you.
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The answer is pretty much yes to all the above. If I could find a nice GB 36 Sedan I might be tempted but I really don't like the alternatives in my price range. I don't like the looks or style of the GB 36 classic as it really has no seating area in the stern. Due to my uncertainty about the insurance saga which has been going on for some time I already found and purchased for a good price a nice ford lehman from a tractor. Its in my garage and runs well I just have to marinize it using the parts from my old engine.
 
Art said:
What that proves is that boats can be well built or poorly built. By using various quality material choices and/or levels of professionalism in build methods. In other words... problems may [can or could] develop on a boat that has ample age. That includes wood, fiberglass, steel, aluminum, ferrocement and all other material types.

BTW... I don't recall your answer to my ask on post 63 if the hull [bottom] fasteners in your boat had been replaced and if so how long ago. In addition to rot and worms in wood as boat hull bottoms age, the material type and condition of fasteners is of monumental structural importance as well as $$$ value of the old boat.
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That question about fasteners is my biggest concern and is part of the problem. I don't know their age. and don't know if or when it has ever been refastened.
A year and a half ago we extracted a number and all were in fine condition. Did we get lucky? I don't know. I did post some pictures at haul out.

I have no evidence of any structural problems and in fact things seem to be just the contrary. During the lull (while waiting for the insurance company) with the engine extracted I spent a couple weeks cleaning and painting the bilge. The bilge is absolutely dry with no signs of any loose planks rot or other problems. There is a single point i found where water seems to come through a seem at the rate of about a tiny drop per day. It evaporates normally so that I would not have noticed it except I saw a tiny stain and observed it as I worked in the bilge. I figure at haul out I'll re-caulk that seem area.

I know that no one can really answer the question for me but I do appreciate the feedback. I did post some pictures from my last haul out. I guess you can't tell from the pictures but the Hull looks pretty sound (i.e no obvious bulging planks) . The yard master thought it was in fantastic shape.


Trawler Forum - View Single Post - GB32 Wood. First Haul out What to expect?
 
mplangley said:
Hull looks pretty sound (i.e no obvious bulging planks) . The yard master thought it was in fantastic shape.

mp - As you have duplicate spare diesel engine at hand, marineizing it seems not too big of a deal using parts from original diesel, boat looks and sounds to be in great condition... ins co will pay you some money and you can buy the boat back a discount salvage price. What's the question??

Seems to me if I were in your spot I'd follow through and have a "salvaged" boat with new engine. Then, if you decide to sell at any time you have a functioning pleasure cruiser to offer. Worst case scenario is that if you keep boat for years that you may need to refasten it yourself. Bitch of a job but doable! Other scenario is that yards refuse to berth or haul wooden boats; don't think that will be every yard for boat kept in good condition such as yours is.

Only real caveat to be aware of is actual condition of the replacement "tractor motor". Not sure how you get it's condition fully checked out while it's sitting completely unattached; i.e. not easily able to be started. Partial tear down maybe? Do you know its use history. Seen or heard it run before purchase? Know the hours on it as well as maintenance records?

Good Luck! :thumb:

Art
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I would marinize the replacement motor, install it and enjoy a fine decade of comfortable cruising. Of course I have a different view than most!
 
Just a quick update. We decided to keep the boat. My children and I are in the process of redoing the interior woodwork and paint as well as some of the brightwork. I'll post some pictures when we are finished by way of rounding out this discussion. Thanks for all the input so far.
 
Simi 60 said:
And he'll still need a truckload of extra cash to make up the difference to get the same in plastic.

Timber boats aren't that bad once you stop treating them like French polished furniture and start treating them like a timber work boat or shed.
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I like that. But several things here, and its probably an old saw,, but a wooden boat owner will know when its time to not own a wooden boat. But "polishing" a wooden boat all along while owning it actually reduces your work and expense if you choose to ignore it.

I talk to my wooden boats when I am rubbing on it, even with sandpaper. Of course sometimes it could be considered unknown tongue. ;) They are no more work than having to wax plastic to me. And the nice smell of cedar , cherry and even mahogany laced with varnish beats the hell out of fiberglass all day long. Oh a properly taken care of wooden boat does not stink! as the naïve dock talk suggests.

This also shows that you are proud of what you own. Its no sin to pay as you go, even repairing an engine and have a paid off hull that you know what you have now.

But your life also depends on proper maintenance of a boat of any kind. If you have a wooden boat that is taken care of, its not that much more work to me anyway after taking care of like sized hulls.

Of course the boatyard issues is of real concern right along side of marinas that's banning wooden boats from dockage in a large portion of the country.

But I surely like the way my body feels after a day on the open water on wood.
 
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mplangley said:
So - I have a 32' Wooden Grand Banks (1972). I love it. The hull is sound and its in good overall condition. There is nothing I dislike about it but I do dislike that it suffers what appears to me to be a prejudice* (justified or not) against wood boats. Wooden GB's are a fraction of the cost of their fiberglass descendants.

My dilemma is this. I suffered an engine loss which the insurance company, after its own examination has decided too cover.

The "problem" is all of my estimates for replacing the engine etc are coming in at over the insured value of the boat. I have not received final word yet but I think in the next day or so I'll be faced with having to make a decision about whether to take the entire settlement check and sign over the boat to the Insur Co or to take less than the full amount and keep the boat. If I keep the boat I would attempt to repower it myself on the cheap.

I am wondering though if its time to move on to a fiberglass model. Should I take the money and run and let my beautiful ship be sold off and parted out?

Having thought it over I realize the only reason I am tempted is because of the aforementioned overall prejudice against wood. The harbors, the boat labor force and other marine related businesses, even the insurance companies and certainly the boat resale market in southern California do not seem all that amenable to wooden hulls. I wonder what it will be like in another 5 years. Maybe wood will make a resurgence? Frankly I hate fiberglass but perhaps its time for me to throw in the towel.:surrender::surrender:
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Just bought a GB32 in excellent condition, had to fork over 100K for it and then spent thousands just bring things up to good operating condition. No big problems, but lots of long-overdue things -- pump impellers, batteries, new hoses, etc. Oh yes, updating the propane system! I have been in wooden boat since 1982 and know them well. If your boat is in pretty good shape and up-to-date with maintenance, think hard about getting what money you can and getting a rebuilt engine. We really searched the web and found a lot of fiberglass dogs for sale. On the other hand, I just cannot do the bottom work on any wooden boat any more, so that was the handwriting on the wall. Think it over. Perry.
 
Ah, the nostalgia of a woody... Tough call but many well founded points being made here. Truth is, I often search the wooden boat market but then reality slaps me in the face. Yes, the cost of admission is very attractive but finding yards, competent craftspeople and insurance are really hammering home the final nails in this coffin, bronze or not! If you love your 32 and had aspirations of her being a lifetime commitment before the engine went south, take the money and repower, follow your heart, insurance companies be damned.
 
"Beauty" passed by this weekend! :thumb:
 

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While rare, some wood boats have gotten so soft that they can’t sit on their keels. As the operator lifts the boat the keel is pushed up through the bottom of the boat. If the operator doesn’t notice this in time the boat becomes damaged. Then you get into a who’s fault is it law suit.
 
tiltrider1 said:
While rare, some wood boats have gotten so soft that they can’t sit on their keels. As the operator lifts the boat the keel is pushed up through the bottom of the boat. If the operator doesn’t notice this in time the boat becomes damaged. Then you get into a who’s fault is it law suit.
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Perhaps boat yards should ask to see the last survey, like insurance companies.
Don't haul or offer moorage unless a recent one is produced. We do trust surveyors to find these problems.
:popcorn:
 
Originally Posted by Art View Post
......More and more marinas here won't berth, haul or dry dock them. ................

Soo-Valley said:
Why is that?
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Because they have old Wooden hulls.
 
Good wood boats are the best.
Rotten boats are to be recycled.
 
Soo-Valley said:
Perhaps boat yards should ask to see the last survey, like insurance companies.
Don't haul or offer moorage unless a recent one is produced. We do trust surveyors to find these problems.
:popcorn:
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Problem is when you can't come out of the water without survey
Can't get a survey without coming out of water.

Insurers here are now insisting on condition report "survey" every 5 years
Boatyards and marinas are insisting on insurance
 
Simi 60 said:
Problem is when you can't come out of the water without survey
Can't get a survey without coming out of water.

Insurers here are now insisting on condition report "survey" every 5 years
Boatyards and marinas are insisting on insurance
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Insurance here has asked for one every 5 years. So if 5 years is good for insurance, then what do boat haulers know differently. I can understand no moorage without insurance or at least a liability insurance.
Must not be reading in the right places about the issues with wood boats causing this concern.
Glass blisters and delaminates.
Maybe it is simply that marinas no longer have to beg to fill a berth and can become picky choosing the $$$$$ boats only.
 
Soo-Valley said:
Insurance here has asked for one every 5 years. So if 5 years is good for insurance, then what do boat haulers know differently. I can understand no moorage without insurance or at least a liability insurance.
Must not be reading in the right places about the issues with wood boats causing this concern.
Glass blisters and delaminates.
Maybe it is simply that marinas no longer have to beg to fill a berth and can become picky choosing the $$$$$ boats only.
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Outside of cold molded boats, or specialty boats (such as Devlin stitch and glue) there are no major producers of wood boats today- so, the newest wood boats are from the late 70s/early 80s.

Wood boats (by actuarial claims data) have higher cost claims that a similar sized fiberglass boats primarily due to age, a lack of skilled craftsman, and/or a lack of good maintenance. Insurance premiums and the requirement for the survey to be hauled with fasteners pulled for inspection.

Gelcoats have been known to blister, but blistering (to the best of my knowledge) has never caused a vessel to sink. Delamination is another known factor of FG, but extremely rare. Wood planking that leaks has been known to sink vessels.
 
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