Dripless recommendations?

I have been working on our 1977 Willard and just pulled the engine to replace a leaking v-drive seal, cleaned the bilge like it has never been done since new, and am thinking I will replace the old stuffing box*and flax wrapping with a new dripless one.* Any thoughts on which brand to use or avoid?* Since this is in a VERY inaccessible place, I'm hoping to not "have" to see it much in*the future, so I'd love to hear what everyone else has experienced.

*

Keith Olive

LaConner, WA

Keith, I think you hit the wrong forum button.

I would not install a dripless system where you cannot regularly see and service it. Same goes for gore or flax but at least if they drip a lot you can tighten them. Once a dripless*system starts leaking you need to get right on it.* I*have two that are very reliable, don't drip and can be easily seen and accessed. I routinely look at them when cruising.

I have had Tides driplesss seals, they use a lip seal, on 2 boats, on my previous boat a 2002 Camano in 2006 or 2007 the seal developed a slow leak, maybe 10 drops per minute. I was keeping that boat on a hoist so was able to change it out and installed a spare seal on the shaft.
My 2003 Monk has the Tides Sureseal it hasn't had a problem leaking but I did check the cooling water flow recently and found it blocked at the fitting which taps into the transmission heat exchanger. The fitting was completely blocked, mineral deposits, and no water was going to the seal the seal is not dripping and seems to be fine fine so I guess I caught it in time.
The owners instructions say to check the water flow every 6 months, I confess I had not checked it in the 3 years I have owned the boat. I will be buying a replacement seal and a spare to put on the shaft next time I haul the boat since I don't know what effect running without the cooling water may have had on the seal in there now.
Overall I am satified with the Tides seals and would have no problems buying another boat equipped with them. The bilges of the boats I have owned with them stay completely dry which is very nice.
On both boats the seal was visible on opening one of the salon floor hatches.
Steve W.

I also*installed a tides seal on my Albin and I installed one on my previous Mainship. Mainship was on 5 years never leaked a drop, never clogged a feed hose.

6 seasons on the Albin. Same results.

*

If you follow the desires for maint on the "dripless" seals from their mfg , you will notice they REQUIRE maint.

I love the goretex replacement for flax.

No drips , no maint , and no heat on the stuffing box., waisted energy.

My anchor always drips.

Keith wrote:
My anchor always drips.

Click to expand...

*I think they have medicine for that

Sorry for posting this in the wrong category.*

*

Thanks to all for the informative posts.* We are installing a PYI PSS Dripless on our Willard 30.* This weekend we got to clean the engine bilge compartment and found a cell phone, screwdriver, various assorted bolts and nuts, zip ties and gunk.* Now it is actually clean enough to recognize the bottom as fiberglass.* Very nice!*

*

Keith Olive

LaConner, WA

The Eagle has a PYI PSS Dripless.* Installed in 1996 as I wanted the bilge bone dry and the PYI PSS Dripless*the only option at that time.* Also if the shaft was bent the PYI PSS Dripless could still hold a water tight seal and the bellows flex.*
*
We have the dripless bellows check every time the Eagle is pulled.* The bellows should last 10+ years just like hoses, belts, and the boot for in/out board drives.* 15 years we have had not problems/leaks and have changed the bellows out once.*
*
The extra precaution I have taken is to run a caulking seal around the SS shaft collar just in case the rubber 0 rings fail, and there are two 2500 bilge pumps.* If the bellows does leak, I would wrap in Saran wrap to slow/stop the leak.**

Keith we installed the PYI system on Beach House and now have 2800 miles on it. I have installed probably a hundred or so of these on other boats over the years and all are still in service today and the owners love them. Good luck and hope all goes well with the reinstall. Chuck


-- Edited by Capn Chuck on Monday 14th of November 2011 02:07:20 PM

Keith,

i am changing the dripless shaft seal that ibought from Tide for the pss from PYI

hope it will work better because the first one was always leaking.

Claude, The Tides seal, especially the older units were notorious for leaking. I think you will be very happy with the PYI. Chuck

Capn Chuck wrote:
Claude, The Tides seal, especially the older units were notorious for leaking. I think you will be very happy with the PYI. Chuck

Click to expand...

*Really? Actually the reason I went with Tides both times was because of the opposite.

Make sure the bellows put a lot of pressure against the collar to make a good seal.* As an addition precaution I caulk round the color and the shaft*incase*the O rings failed. Also a hose clamp around the shaft as an addition precaution to prevent the color from slipping taking the pressure off the collar. Also when you splash make sure you burp the bellows to get the air out.

Phil Fill wrote:
Make sure the bellows put a lot of pressure against the collar to make a good seal.* As an addition precaution I caulk round the color and the shaft*incase*the O rings failed. Also a hose clamp around the shaft as an addition precaution to prevent the color from slipping taking the pressure off the collar. Also when you splash make sure you burp the bellows to get the air out.

Click to expand...

*Actually, too much pressure is a bad thing. The manufacturer will recommend how much compression is needed. I would not recommend using any caulking, we have never had an O ring fail in over 15 years. The hose clamp is a good idea or a donut zinc, as we used for safety.

thank you Chuck for the advise... be sure that i will put a PYI

Good luck Claude, and when you order, have them send you spare set screws in case you need to move the shaft for maintenance or repairs later. The set screws should not be reused. Chuck

I'm with FF on this one. Replaced the stuffing with Gore when I did the cutlas bearings five years and 500 hours ago. No problems to report.

The big advantage to the modern material in the stuffing box is the style of failure.

Should the packing wear , it will drip a bit.

Should the bellows rupture the inflow is beyond most electrical pumps to clear.

Big difference!

FF wrote:
The big advantage to the modern material in the stuffing box is the style of failure.

Should the packing wear , it will drip a bit.

Should the bellows rupture the inflow is beyond most electrical pumps to clear.

Big difference!

Click to expand...

*That was always my arguement for traditional...but is the rupturing of the bellows any different than failure of the traditional box rubber hose?

Granted the traditional is heavy duty and doesn't really do anything than sit there...

On a dripless...by the time you need to replace the wear ring only a fool wouldn't replace the bellows too if it were a decade or so old.* My guess is a lot of traditional types would put off replacing the hose till there was a need or it looks so bad it makes you shiver.

Both failures would stink and I'm guessing there is a chance a dripless would be more prone to problems but after running one for a decade*in an assistance towing shamrock...they take incredible abuse without "major" failure.*



-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 17th of November 2011 07:14:28 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Thursday 17th of November 2011 07:14:48 AM

psneeld wrote:FF wrote:
The big advantage to the modern material in the stuffing box is the style of failure.

Should the packing wear , it will drip a bit.

Should the bellows rupture the inflow is beyond most electrical pumps to clear.

Big difference!

Click to expand...

*That was always my arguement for traditional...but is the rupturing of the bellows any different than failure of the traditional box rubber hose?

Granted the traditional is heavy duty and doesn't really do anything than sit there...

On a dripless...by the time you need to replace the wear ring only a fool wouldn't replace the bellows too if it were a decade or so old.* My guess is a lot of traditional types would put off replacing the hose till there was a need or it looks so bad it makes you shiver.

Both failures would stink and I'm guessing there is a chance a dripless would be more prone to problems but after running one for a decade*in an assistance towing shamrock...they take incredible abuse without "major" failure.*

*A friend of mine had a bellows fail a few years ago. Neglect on his part yes, but it ruined a lot of stuff on his boat.* First year it was the alternator and starter because they got so rusty they quit working. The next season the insides of his tranny rusted out, so he had to ge that rebuilt. And I'm sure other stuff was corroded badly but he sold the boat before something else let go.

The bellows is nowhere near as robust as a traditional stuffing box hose. Not close.

*

but is the rupturing of the bellows any different than failure of the traditional box rubber hose?

The old rubber hose is 1/2 in or so thick in order to resist the torque from the packing on the shaft.

The bellows MUST flex so it is thin .

Most mfg give specific instructions on bellows replacement , usually every couple of years.

*
I know usually the rubber tube on a traditional is much thicker but if it does fail I'm not sure it would be a lot different than a bellows type.
After a decade of running a small fleet of assistance towing vessels with PSS boxes with not sudden failuresand VERY hard useI just wonder how many failures there are and are they any more common than traditional ones.
Ive run a PSS *hard all season where the carbon ring was so worn on the inside I was afraid it would split because it was so close to*the injection barb....it leaked like crazy when running....but not a drop at rest.* An despite a lot of wobbling, years later the bellows still looks new.

*



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:15:28 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:16:20 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:17:01 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:17:48 AM



-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:18:19 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Friday 18th of November 2011 06:18:44 AM

More than a good point Fred. I have an R&D shaft seal. The PYI seal is not made by PYI. It's made by a British company called R&D that also makes good engine mounts and other products. Try to buy R&D products from R&D. If you deal w PYI and have any troubles you may get verbal abuse beyond anything you've ever imagined from the owner of the company. However he may not be the owner now. But as long as you do'nt deal w him PYI is OK. If I had it to do over I'd install a regular old fashioned packing seal on my boat. I've experienced two OMG we're going to sink moments w the dripless seals and consider them a hazardous peice*of equipment. But for Kieth the dripless may, just may be justifiable. However to keep the boat afloat I needed to get at the seal immediately. I woud'nt even buy a boat w a V drive because of the inaccessibility of that very important shaft seal. But since Keith already has the boat (and I would'nt recommend he sell it for that reason) I'd recommend he install a regular packing seal, watch it closely when it's convenient and trust it in demanding situations when access to the seal would be impossible or nearly so.

Eric, what was the nature of the 2 fault you experienced?
Steve W.

When I first bought my boat, my highest priority was to install a 'dripless' PYI unit, as the boat only had an 'old fashioned' packing gland.

But time constraints conspired against me and I was unable to get it done before bringing the boat home, so I settled for installing GFO packing in the 'old fashioned' packing gland.

This actually worked very well for 2 years, I was able to adjust the thing so it would drip maybe a teaspoon of water from a days cruise while underway and none at rest.
I caught the drips in a small bucket which I would empty every week or so if cruising. But I longed for the 'totally Dry bilge' that the packless advertised.

So after 2 years of using the GFO at the next haulout, I installed the dripless unit- I could pretty much get it to stop leaking most of the time, but would still have that teaspoon of water at the end of a day's cruise.

Then I read/heard some of the horror stories of the catastrophic disasters that can happen from the tearing of the bellows etc.

Fortunately, I had saved the 'old fashioned' system, so at the next haul-out I replaced the high tech 'dripless' packing unit with the low-tech gland - still using the formerly installed GFO packing(which is said to never wear out).

So, here I am today 8 years later with the same GFO packing - no adjustments now necessary.

No drips while at the dock, and when cruising the chore of dumping a 1/2 pint of water overboard every week or so is minor.

In my case I would have been happy to skip the 'dripless' exercise entirely.

One of the first things I wanted to do with WESTERLY was to get a dry bilge.* The PO had let the housing deteriorate due to poor adjustment to the extent that*new hardware was needed.

The*PSS equipment was installed in 1998.* A new bellows was installed in 2006 on general principles.* The bilge has been dry since original installation and obviously solved a*number of secondary issues.*

A neighbor with a GB42 tried to put one in, but could never get it adjusted properly (too much vibration present), and ended up reinstalling traditional packing assembly.

The installation on my boat put the PSS just aft of the intermediate bearing, the GB42 had no such shaft support and this may have contributed to poor performance due to excessive drive train vibration.

The conclusion is that excellent shaft/propulsion alignment is probably needed for excellent performance of this equipment.

I installed Gortex fiber packing in my traditional stuffing box; no leaks and maintenance free.

Highly recommended.

I've had the PSS seals on for the past 4 years and have not had a single drip since. At the advice of my mechanic, I added a crossover tube connecting the water lines so I get pressurized water from the operating engine during single engine ops. Haven't needed it since installation, but it's nice knowing I won't have to secure one shaft to prevent rotation when single-engine.