Adding on to my flybridge....ideas?

Just wanted to ask if anybody had any ideas or thoughts on if I could make the canvas top over the back deck into a hardtop....thus adding more room to my flybridge and making the back deck more useable....maybe more room for extra sleeping quarters...or..or...who knows. I am trying to get the most out of the room I have, and think it would be an "easy" project.Anybody done anything like this. Here is a pic......

Be mindful of the weight. Grand Banks made a 66-foot version of their popular Europa design. I believe they only made three of them. All three buyers elected to have fully enclosed flying bridges. With windows, doors, the whole bit. The boats were so top heavy that a shipwright friend who worked on the commissioning of one of them said you practically had to turn the stabilizers on while it was in its slip. The design was a sales failure and the idea was dropped after only three had been built.

A lightweight hardtop to replace the bimini would probably not be much of a weight issue, but if start thinking about enclosing the sides (with solid panels and windows), putting on an aft bulkhead, and so on, the change in the boat's stability could be significant.

If you start thinking in those terms it might be a good idea to employ a qualified marine architect to help you examine the idea.

PS* It was only after re-reading your post and looking at the photo more carefully that I realized you are talking about the canvas cover extending back from your main cabin overhead, not putting a hardtop in place of your bimini.* I wouldn't think extending your main cabin overhead with a hard extension would pose much or any stability issue at all.* After all, you will simply be doing what manufacturers have been doing to create a Europa from a standard sedan configuration.* And you could then enclose the aft deck with fabric sides with clear plastic windows for all-weather use.

In the Grand Banks line, the Europa configuration is the best one for the PNW in our opinion as the covered and enclosable aft deck lets you be outdoors on a rainy day without being outdoors.

-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 01:11:31 AM

Morgan:
I wouldn't touch that boat if it was mine. That's a good looking boat, nice lines and a generous cockpit. If you require more room, try one of two things. (1) Cut back on the number of people aboard or (2) buy a bigger boat.

Ditto,
The Alaskan bulkhead does not to be covered up. Depending on your marina, you may have a hotel combined which offers a discount to the marina folks. This is a good option to give everyone "space" when company comes. Boat together during the day, then sleep seperate if not going on a trip. We have rented a room before when we arrived at the marina on a trip (Moody Gardens), load the boat on the way over, then plenty of room for everyone to sleep at night.

SeaHorse II wrote:
Morgan:
I wouldn't touch that boat if it was mine. That's a good looking boat, nice lines and a generous cockpit. If you require more room, try one of two things. (1) Cut back on the number of people aboard or (2) buy a bigger boat.

Click to expand...

*


Bingo!!! That is one handsome boat. Don't touch it!

With that said, making the cockpit cover a hardtop is a little harder than you would think. My wife is in the business and her company owns the boatyards in our area. Her boss recently told me(a week ago) that they had contracted a custom hardtop to the tune of 17 grand. Now it was done VERY properly and looked very nice(built molds and then gelcoated, etc...the works). I honestly don't know how you could do it without doing it "properly"....and that would be expensive. BUT, if you must, Marin is right. A marine architect might be the answer. He could at least keep the looks of the boat in mind.

You realize you are second guessing the work of Ed Monk Sr.????...




-- Edited by Baker on Wednesday 10th of February 2010 04:26:17 PM

Many/most PNW boats have a hard roof over the stern and a large % are canvas enclosed.* Most boats used for fish*do not have a hard roof over the stern that would restrict the fishing pole.*
*

*

One of the first things we did was canvas enclosed out stern deck, which we remodeled and installed a refrigerator, freezer, sink, with a fold out table that can sit 6.* In the summer we basically live on the stern deck. In the winter its a semi warm/dry area to store stuff.


-- Edited by Phil Fill on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 03:33:27 PM

Since you are not going (I hope) to stand or use this as a activity spot , only a sun shade,

using foam core and a reasonable amount of glass will cost about 1.5 lbs per sq ft, plus hardware.

captmorgan23 wrote:

Just wanted to ask if anybody had any ideas or thoughts on if I could make the canvas top over the back deck into a hardtop....thus adding more room to my flybridge and making the back deck more useable....

Click to expand...

Or Morgan, you could do this......

This option, which, as others have mentioned, would not spoil the lines of the vessel, or add unnecessary weight up high, was what we did when the cockpit awning which was rather like yours, and did not cover enough of the cockpit on my CHB 34 sedan, became weathered enough to replace.* We just got a good marine frame fabricator to make an extended frame right to nearly the end and sides of the cockpit (leaving just a tad spare for rod ends, as Phil mentioned), and also extended it along the side decks, then covered with Sunbrella, to cover the windows for shade and weather protection and most of the cockpit, like the new Europas, but way less weight.* We are absolutely thrilled with the result.* If you don't really need more room in the flybridge, or to perch your dinghy there, there is no point in trying to make it rigid, with the added cost and weight.





*


-- Edited by Peter B on Thursday 11th of February 2010 07:02:37 AM

When we bought our Canadian built, 33' trawler in 2002 she had an open cockpit but covered side decks. Living in the PNW we have more wind and rain then sunshine so a covered and enclosed Europa style boat was desireable. We virtually never use the flybridge and elected to leave it with only a canvas skirt around the steering station.

For covering the cockpit we looked into having a framework with canvas and also having a local boat yard build a hardtop (that solution was well in excess of $10,000 to accomplish). My solution was to build a hardtop in the garage at home and then transport it to the marina for installation.

Basically a friend and I built a jig to capture the crown and curvature of the existing roof top on the boat, took a mockup to the marina and fit checked it two or three times until we got the curves just right then we built a framework of marine grade 3/4" plywood, covered it all with two layers of 1/4" marine plywood then sealed all the plywood. After sealing the plywood I built up the various corners and joints with West System epoxy plus filler, sanded, faired and then covered the whole thing in fiberglass and more epoxy. Then more sanding and fairing and finally primer, top coat and a nonskid on the upper surface.

The top is supported by four 1" stainless stancions and is overlapped and through bolted to*the bobtail of the original roof.**It cost about $3000 in material (I was working parttime for West Marine*then and had deep discounts on epoxy and paint) and*the labor was*a friend and I.* It took us about six weeks to build*and finish the top.**I used a local towing company to transport the top to the marina on*one of those flatbed tow trucks and we then used the boat lift at the marina to drop the top onto the boat.* Canvas around the new aftdeck enclosure ran about $6000.

In 2005 when we did the roof marine grade plywood just made sense.* If I was to*do it again I would consider foam core but that would probably double the cost of materials.* Here's two shots of the boat, before*and after.


*



-- Edited by Steppen on Thursday 11th of February 2010 09:24:05 AM

-- Edited by Steppen on Thursday 11th of February 2010 09:27:59 AM

Steppen:

I certainly wouldn't tackle a job like that or even commission someone to do it for me, but I have to admit....GREAT JOB!

PeterB, I love the look of what you did with the canvas...GREAT JOB! I think that is what I will do.



Steppan, Your boat looks amazing with the addition, you got me thinking, which is not good, and now I have this urge to 'go for it'.


Thanks everybody for the ideas from "don't touch it" to "lets build some stuff" NICE. I will try something in between.








MP

steppen, your boat looks AMAZING!

Aw shucks, thank you gentlemen. She's a 1981 Great Lakes 33 built by Ontario Yachts, Ltd. They only built 20 of the trawlers (and lots of sailboats) in the early 80's. We know of only three in the PNW; two up in BC and ours in WA state. She has a single Volvo Penta TMD-40A for power. The cockpit is really large, probably half again as much space as you find on a GB32 sedan while the salon/galley is smaller and narrower than the Grand Banks. Once we covered and enclosed the backend our cockpit has essentially become the salon and sitting room. Nice to sit out back with a little propane heater going and watch the rain come down.

I have 42 Canoe Cove sedan whos flybridge ends right at the cockpit and I am going to extend it about three or four feet.

If there is any interest I can do "How I did it" here.

Dave

It is rather hard to write a book on how to do GRP .

However if you are willing to learn the basics and purchase the tools its a very simple job.

The key is to lay up a layer of what will be the underside laminate on what ever core you chose.

Nadaia core is cheap and has a free handbook.

Once laid yp the 1/2 made deck is flipped 180.

IF the curve required is simple a couple of 2x// cut to match are laid under the piece, then what will be the top surface is laid up.

Fast , cheap and fine with flat to modest curves. We have built pilot houses and new overheads for any number of boats with this simple procedure.

FF

Beautiful job Step! Did you also fabricate the new mast?

Yep, I built the mast when we wanted to move the boat undercover (needed a hinged mast). It is also fiberglass over a marine plywood form.

Steppen wrote:
Yep, I built the mast when we wanted to move the boat undercover (needed a hinged mast). It is also fiberglass over a marine plywood form.

Click to expand...

Steppen I would be interested in knowing more about how you built your mast. I sent you a PM.

My PO put this one on the California 34 I believe he said the cost was north of $10,000 and that did not include the davit crane and was well before the price of everything started going skyward.

A deck you can stand on will be close to 3lbs /sq / ft.

i think it looks great the way it is..
hardtop - sure could work but i would leave it "open".

captmorgan23 wrote:
Just wanted to ask if anybody had any ideas or thoughts on if I could make the canvas top over the back deck into a hardtop....thus adding more room to my flybridge and making the back deck more useable....maybe more room for extra sleeping quarters...or..or...who knows. I am trying to get the most out of the room I have, and think it would be an "easy" project.Anybody done anything like this. Here is a pic......

This thread is impossible to read with the wide photos and the constant scrolling back and forth to read each sentence, at least on my PC!*

But, I have the same thought on converting my cockpit cover to a hard cover.* The canvas is on its last legs and has pockets that collect and hold water, only to dump it on the unsuspecting owner (me).

Camano built a few boats like mine but 41 foot, not 31 and they had a hard cover over the cockpit, strong enough to walk on and hold a dinghy.

Click to expand...

*


-- Edited by rwidman on Monday 14th of November 2011 04:14:13 PM

rwidman wrote:
*

But, I have the same thought on converting my cockpit cover to a hard cover.* The canvas is on its last legs and has pockets that collect and hold water, only to dump it on the unsuspecting owner (me).

Camano built a few boats like mine but 41 foot, not 31 and they had a hard cover over the cockpit, strong enough to walk on and hold a dinghy.

Click to expand...

*



-- Edited by rwidman on Monday 14th of November 2011 04:14:13 PM

*There was (perhaps still is) a Camano 31 berthed at the Maple Bay Marina that sported a a very professional looking hardtop over the cockpit, the only 31 I've ever seen decked out that way. Looked very practical for cruising BC waters.