Boarded by Coast Guard

psneeld said:

DC36Monk...

really not the way it works.

the USCG technically isnt doing a search, it is verifying administrative requirements.

They get to look at stuff and systems on the list, but cant go through lockers, drawers or cabinets without probable cause.

The farther you are away from civilization, true the less likely you are to be boarded because of location, but, if a USCG vessel is out on generic patrol ....your chances of getting boarded go way up.

True., luck of the draw has a lot to do with it ss some get boarded often, some never.

But if you boat long enough and a lot, it would be rare to have never been boarded.

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I understand the luck factor, but I think it also has to do with whether you look like you have your act together. Eight knot trawlers at track a lot less attention than 14 knot "trawlers."

And the verifying administrative requirements reasoning has not worked for OSHA and a lot of other agencies. OSHA was just checking for work place safety compliance when they entered construction sites and industrial workplaces. But, it was still a search under the 4th Amendment according to the courts.

I really think a lot of the lack of complaint or resistance stems from the boating community as a whole believing the USCG can do what they want on the water. Don't get me wrong, I think that overall they do a great job in their traditional role, but regret they got saddled with also trying to be the cops doing drug interdiction. My late brother retired as a SCWO and always said that changed the mission and a lot of the personnel. The older guys joined to save lives, not run around pointing 50 cal. mounts at people.

In contrast the Canadian Coast Guard stills seems primarily focused on the life saving role, at least in BC. They are truly professionals without a lot more career sailors. From radio broadcast to rescue, a very tight experienced group.

dhays said:

I read Monk’s post to mean he would verbally object to being boarded, but would not resist. I certainly don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

“Request permission to board you Captain.”

“You don’t have my permission, but I will not resist in any way what I consider an unlawful action.”

Short, sweet, and cordial. The USCG personal will do what they need to do, Monk will voice his opinion, and life will go on.

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No, you say "what is it you need?" And see what they say next. And if they say documents check, you point to your current registration decal and ask if there was something else they needed. It's likely that you may never have to say no, but if you do, it will leave them wondering whether they really want the problem of an informed, polite, boater maybe complaining here or there. More likely you get to the exchange of parting pleasantries, "take care and be safe." To which you reply, "You too. Thanks for the great job you do."

If it goes down the other way, they board without your permission and at that point are on very tenuous legal grounds. You've cooperated and tried to satisfy any legitimate needs they have, been friendly but not consented to them entering your home. If they're smart at all they will know they need to walk very soft at this point.

But, you can do the whole thing different and directly challenge their authority - "WTF DO YOU WANT. YOU STOPPED ME YESTERDAY. I DONT HAVE TIME FOR THIS BS." And then it will go downhill really fast!

Thete are lots of thing like excessive water and oil in the bilge they are supposed to check, along with posted placards.

6 or 12 knot trawler meaningless in terms of boatding

And actually, if you did yell at them and wave yestetdays 4100 form, that action may get them to leave you alone....they usually get it.... not just the first cold stop of the year.

dhays said:

I read Monk’s post to mean he would verbally object to being boarded, but would not resist. I certainly don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

“Request permission to board you Captain.”

“You don’t have my permission, but I will not resist in any way what I consider an unlawful action.”

Short, sweet, and cordial. The USCG personal will do what they need to do, Monk will voice his opinion, and life will go on.

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You replied to Delfin!

Tom.B said:

Bess loves it when they board us... She has the hots for them youngn'z!

True story: During our last boarding, we were nekkid as jaybirds when the Coasties rolled up on us. They quickly learned part of the reason we named our boat what we did. Bess tells a better story about it than I do. They approached us from ahead, yet, they knew the name of the boat when they hailed us on VHF. They wouldn't have known that without having done some binocular reconnaissance.

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now that is funny, but I would love to hear Bess tell!!

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

now that is funny, but I would love to hear Bess tell!!

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Did they allow you to put on robes after they searched the robes?

Monk.....I am quite confident that USCG searches are not unconstitutional. I am not a lawyer, but everyone that has been caught doing something and arrested had a lawyer. People arrested from really nice boats or with lots of drugs, probably had enough money to hire really good lawyers. If there was any chance of getting the charges dropped based on an illegal search, it would have come up during at least one of those trials. Since it hasn't, its a pretty safe assumption that the legality of those searches has been well tested by now.

OldDan1943 said:

Did they allow you to put on robes after they searched the robes?

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We were dressed by the time they boarded... it’s not like we take them off and throw them overboard... they were within arm’s reach

Tom.B said:

We were dressed by the time they boarded... it’s not like we take them off and throw them overboard... they were within arm’s reach

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LOL they had those high powered binoculars.
They were looking for guns from a distance LOL

DC36Monk said:

Maybe I am but it seems to me when I'm in Puget Sound 70 miles from the Canadian Border they should need a reason to come into my home and go through my stuff.

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What "seems to you" has nothing to do with the law and the reality.

Within the 100mi zone, CBP and DHS need no cause, not probable not reasonable, nothing. That's where 2/3rds of us live BTW.

In navigable waters same with USCG.

Sure if ACLU takes you on as a test case, or you're willing to invest half a mill in lawyers, you may be able to change "the law" as it now stands, but in reality the trend is very much the other way, thousands of actual violations of the actual laws by police etc every day and no one is effectively policing the police on these issues, those who count politically buy into the Protect and Serve BS.


> Really can't imagine them pushing more, but if they did they would probably nicely be told that they are conducting an unlawful search and seizure under the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S Constitution( Fourteenth is for the state guy they have riding with them). And if they continued I would tell the PO2 or 3 in charge that I was not consenting to boarding, search or seizure


And they will laugh, maybe tear you apart 10x more than if you cooperated as required by law.

Easily confiscate all that property too if they feel like it, no arrest required, and you have to sue to try to get it back.

Welcome to the real Amerika.

You must be white and relatively wealthy to be living in such a fantasy land.

I totally agree with DC36Monk and feel just as he does. And while the reality may be such that refusing a boarding is a useless exercise, I also find it amazing how many people fall back to such silly contrived things like, "oh its about our safety", to my personal favorite "they have big guns". This is just stupid and says nothing good about the situation that should be unconstitutional, but since it apparently isnt, that somehow we are supposed to be afraid of the CG's guns? Really? I also think its insulting to suggest that Monk "must be white and wealthy" to believe as he does. That's just uncalled for.

My point is simply that poor people of color know in their daily life experience that there is huge disparity between the mythology of "freedom" in America and the actual facts of reality.

I very much desire our society lived up more to its ideals, believe me.

While we don't want this to devolve into some argument about slavery or its aftermath, the idea that freedom is a myth is ludicrous. Everyone starts and ends with the same freedoms, what they choose to do with that freedom is up the individual.

I have an official form letter from the US Govt that says, I can spend my money however I want provided when I die, I will give them 55% percent of my net worth, pay all my annual income taxes at the assigned percentage, support my choose segment of economy.
My chosen segments are 1. the marine industry 2. farmers 3. bank industry 4. stock markets 5. the fire arms industry 6. my local strip clubs

The official note from the state govt. reads as follows: What ever you do not give to the federal govt, you give to us. And now you know why I also support a local CPA

There is one word in common, GIVE

OldDan1943 said:

I have an official form letter from the US Govt that says, I can spend my money however I want provided when I die, I will give them 55% percent of my net worth, pay all my annual income taxes at the assigned percentage, support my choose segment of economy.
My chosen segments are 1. the marine industry 2. farmers 3. bank industry 4. stock markets 5. the fire arms industry 6. my local strip clubs

The official note from the state govt. reads as follows: What ever you do not give to the federal govt, you give to us. And now you know why I also support a local CPA

There is one word in common, GIVE

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Ok.

Personally, I would rather not become involved with a discussion that gets into the "person of color". I have a color too.

john61ct said:

My point is simply that poor people of color know in their daily life experience that there is huge disparity between the mythology of "freedom" in America and the actual facts of reality.

I very much desire our society lived up more to its ideals, believe me.

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78puget-trawler said:

While we don't want this to devolve into some argument about slavery or its aftermath, the idea that freedom is a myth is ludicrous. Everyone starts and ends with the same freedoms, what they choose to do with that freedom is up the individual.

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OldDan1943 said:

Personally, I would rather not become involved with a discussion that gets into the "person of color". I have a color too.

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You guys are getting way off the OP posting. Please take that argument somewhere else.

We just got our renewal documentation docs, no sticker either. Is it an east coast thing?

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

You guys are getting way off the OP posting. Please take that argument somewhere else.

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No need for the admonishment.... 7 hours later...

Delta Dog said:

We just got our renewal documentation docs, no sticker either. Is it an east coast thing?

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There is no USCG documentation sticker. Anywhere.

dhays said:

There is no USCG documentation sticker. Anywhere.

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Nevertheless, make sure the documentation number is permanently installed in the boat's interior and the boat's name and "port" is posted on the exterior to specifications.

dhays said:

I read Monk’s post to mean he would verbally object to being boarded, but would not resist. I certainly don’t think there is anything wrong with that.

“Request permission to board you Captain.”

“You don’t have my permission, but I will not resist in any way what I consider an unlawful action.”

Short, sweet, and cordial. The USCG personal will do what they need to do, Monk will voice his opinion, and life will go on.

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What's the point? Doing so only sets an adverserial atmosphere and doesn't change the fact that an inspection WILL take place. What it does do is increase the likelihood of a failed inspection for just any failure. Why poke the bear? On our fifth day of ownership of our first boat on our way to Maryland from Florida, we we were boarded. I could not find our copy of Chart No. 1. We were not cited. We did have firearms aboard which I mentioned on the VHF before they even boarded. Maybe they liked that. I don't know. What I do know is that I welcome the Coaties aboard anytime they want.

catalinajack said:

I could not find our copy of Chart No. 1. We were not cited.

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There's no requirement to have Chart No. 1 aboard. There is, however a requirement to carry on board a copy of the current colregs:
I was boarded twice, both times I was asked to produce my copy of the colregs which is located next to my documentation folder. You're also required to have a written trash plan, it doesn't seem to be a priority item since I was never asked to produce it. One boarding I included it with the doc certificate, the other time I did not. Nothing was mentioned in either case.

I also agree, don't poke the bear. The personnel doing the boarding probably don't care about your politics, they certainly don't make the rules, no point in antagonizing them. Take it up with your representative if you can get their snout away from the trough long enough to listen.

Considering the equipment the USCG has, I would discourage you to even try to outrun them in your trawler. LOL

Delta Dog said:

We just got our renewal documentation docs, no sticker either. Is it an east coast thing?

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There is no documentation sticker. There are state registration stickers.

BandB said:

There is no documentation sticker. There are state registration stickers.

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Hey BrandB you do know there is no sticker with the documentation.

So many people have said "no sticker"

Maerin said:

There's no requirement to have Chart No. 1 aboard. There is, however a requirement to carry on board a copy of the current colregs:

Per 33 CFR 83.01(g), the operator of each self-propelled vessel 12 meters or more in length shall carry, on board and maintain for ready reference, a copy of the Rules.
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Is that Colregs or this: USCG NAVIGATION RULES AND REGULATIONS HANDBOOK

Would an electronic copy suffice?

danderer said:

Is that Colregs or this: USCG NAVIGATION RULES AND REGULATIONS HANDBOOK

Would an electronic copy suffice?

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Yes.

Only once

We were boarded by the coast guard only once. We were 15 miles offshore in the Atlantic in a storm with a onboard fire. As for mysel I was happy to see them.

danderer said:

Is that Colregs or this: USCG NAVIGATION RULES AND REGULATIONS HANDBOOK

Would an electronic copy suffice?

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Larry M said:

Yes.

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According to the "Federal Requirements for Recreational Boats: page 36, under Operating Procedures, Navigation Rules states:

"The operator of a vessel 39.4 (12 meters) or greater is responsible for having and maintaining a copy of the Navigation Rules on board while operating on U.S. inland waters."