Boarded by Coast Guard

Northern Spy said:

Probably not, as the Canadian Coast Guard is not a law enforcement agency.

The RCMP or other police forces can though.

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That makes sense.

I've never heard anyone in our area complaining about random police boardings, have you? How about back east? Australia? Europe?

DC36Monk said:

I disagree. The only Ninth Circuit case i found when I looked a few years ago involves a drug smuggler they had under surveillance in the Bay Area and boarded w/I a warrant. They seized a bilge full of coke. Judge upheld the search in a pretty mosh mash opinion melding exigency because it's mobile with probable cause of in progress felony.

The issue is should you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your boat. In my 36' trawler I have much of the things that are central to the reason I have privacy in my house. And we know they can't knock on your door and come uninvited into your house without a warrant. What's different ?

I've never been boarded but I assume it would go like this: they pull up and pass a line saying "permission to come aboard, sir? And anyone who sensing they probably will anyway says "yes" and has consented. But, a polite friendly "I'd prefer you didn't, my wife/girlfriend/kids are sleeping in their bunks and I don't want to risk disturbing them" is one approach, the other is no, permission not granted. Is there something Else I can help you with?

It's a straight up Fourth Amendment issue. Why my boat, my home when I'm living there, should not be entitled to the same Constitutional protection mystifies me.

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You can disagree all you want BUT they are going to board PERIOD. If you disagree in a way that they disagree with you will end up in handcuffs sitting on the deck. The forth amendment does NOT apply no matter what you or some jailhouse lawyer says. Case law, history, international law all agree. Your opinion means nothing against over two hundred years of US Law. If you want to be secure in your home, stay home and off the water. If it floats the USCG can board it PERIOD.

Unless a lot behind the scenes has changed in the last few yearsI havent kept up on.....

Maybe the first time they ask.for permisdion, then anything in plain sight of a safety inspection they find is fair game...

if you say no, then tbey say "heave to and prepare to be boarded"....

and at that point, anything found in plain sght during their normal safety boarding is still fair game.

I will say, if there is probable cause that you are doing something illegal, as I was involved with countless times, the USCG will request a warrant and shadow you toll they get it. Then they will board.

But for a routine boarding, a no to their boarding request might get you a wave and goodbye, or it may get you a warrant search where they bring chainsaws, dogs and interagency friends aboard along with big guns.

psneeld said:

Unless a lot behind the scenes has changed in the last few yearsI havent kept up on.....

Maybe the first time they ask.for permisdion, then anything in plain sight of a safety inspection they find is fair game...

if you say no, then tbey say "heave to and prepare to be boarded"....

and at that point, anything found in plain sght during their normal safety boarding is still fair game.

I will say, if there is probable cause that you are doing something illegal, as I was involved with countless times, the USCG will request a warrant and shadow you toll they get it. Then they will board.

But for a routine boarding, a no to their boarding request might get you a wave and goodbye, or it may oromot a warrant search where they bring chainsaws, dogs and interagency friends aboard along with big guns.

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and rubber gloves.

Two consecutive boardings in two days

I have experienced multiple unnecessary boardings as well. They occurred on the St John's River in downtown Jacksonville. We were the only boat in the area and were headed for tying up on the public wall when a red inflatable hard-bottom CG boat pulled aside with flashers on and announced, not requested, a boarding. We slowed and three fully outfitted, gun carrying personnel came aboard. The forth stayed on the CG boat. They said we could proceed unimpeded, but since we were about to tie up, they required us to maintain our position in the wind and currents.

I provided all the necessary items (documentation, safety items, etc.) including the result of a voluntary CG inspection I had earlier in the year and the window sticker showing compliance. The ignored the sticker and instead spent time looking around the entire interior. It became obvious that the person asking the questions was a beginner and this was in fact a training exercise. This person decided I was in violation because my engine room did not have a vent fan, and were very suspicious of my explanation that I had a diesel engine and the fan was not required and not installed by the manufacturer. Finally, the more senior personnel gave some guidance, and after 45 min of discussion, box checking and having to continue to maneuver to try and stay in place, they gave me a copy of a clear inspection report and departed.

The next afternoon we departed to continue up the St John to a marina, and within a few minutes were intercepted by the same CG boat, but with different personnel, waiving for us to stand by for a boarding. I slowed and held up the previous day's inspection report saying we had passed and wished to continue. They said that didn't matter and we must halt immediately. They boarded and despite my reasoned argument that this was unreasonable, went through much the same process as the day before, again incurring a long delay while a new-bee was struggling with the questions, the form, and the results. This time the trainee couldn't find a shutoff valve on the head (because there isn't one due to having a key lock on the macerator pump) and got confused. He finally capitulated when directed to drop it.

I will say that all of the interactions were conducted in a reasonable and adult manner, and nothing rose to the level of rude or emotional behavior.

Are voluntary inspections a meaningless waist of time? Are multiple consecutive boardings, while legal, fair to the public? Should training be conducted in this matter? Were there classroom training and mock training sessions done in advance? Does the CG lack training resources? Is this an efficient use of senior CG personnel? Is this an abuse of the CG's role?

I come from a city that has been designated "The Coast Guard City USA" and puts on a nationwide attended CG Festival yearly. I grew up around boats, take compliance seriously and have great respect for the CG.

Larry were both your days on a weekend?

Monk I really think your dreaming but who knows

Larry, I suspect the Miami river is worse for inspections.
A lot of drugs travel the Miami river

siestakey said:

Larry were both your days on a weekend?

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I checked the log and it was a Wed and Thurs, which probably explains the lack of other boat traffic on the river.

Larry I was thinking if it was a weekend it would be reserve unit practice like we have in our area

I found this on-line:

To join the Coast Guard Reserve, you must be a U.S. citizen or resident alien between 18 and 39 years old (17 with parental consent). While GEDs are sometimes accepted, high school diplomas are preferred. All recruits take the ASVAB test to determine placement.

Coast Guard reservists undergo Basic Training at the Coast Guard Training Center in Cape May, N.J., for eight weeks. Reservists also train one weekend per month and two weeks every summer.

It appears that they train weekly as well, so that could explain the mid-week exercises.

Great Laker said:

including the result of a voluntary CG inspection I had earlier in the year and the window sticker showing compliance. .

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This is more than semantics. You did not have a voluntary CG inspection. You had a voluntary CG Auxiliary Inspection. Not the CG. Carries no legal value. Note they call it a courtesy inspection.

OldDan1943 said:

Larry, I suspect the Miami river is worse for inspections.
A lot of drugs travel the Miami river

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True, but his were on the St. Johns River in Jacksonville.

BandB said:

True, but his were on the St. Johns River in Jacksonville.

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You make a very good training aid.

DC36Monk said:

I disagree. The only Ninth Circuit case i found when I looked a few years ago involves a drug smuggler they had under surveillance in the Bay Area and boarded w/I a warrant. They seized a bilge full of coke. Judge upheld the search in a pretty mosh mash opinion melding exigency because it's mobile with probable cause of in progress felony.

The issue is should you have a reasonable expectation of privacy in your boat. In my 36' trawler I have much of the things that are central to the reason I have privacy in my house. And we know they can't knock on your door and come uninvited into your house without a warrant. What's different ?

I've never been boarded but I assume it would go like this: they pull up and pass a line saying "permission to come aboard, sir? And anyone who sensing they probably will anyway says "yes" and has consented. But, a polite friendly "I'd prefer you didn't, my wife/girlfriend/kids are sleeping in their bunks and I don't want to risk disturbing them" is one approach, the other is no, permission not granted. Is there something Else I can help you with?

It's a straight up Fourth Amendment issue. Why my boat, my home when I'm living there, should not be entitled to the same Constitutional protection mystifies me.

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https://mblb.com/admiralty-maritime...rding-power-of-the-united-states-coast-guard/

I was boarded about 5 years ago. Great bunch of guys, it was quick and painless. They were extremely polite and respectful. I suspect that safety inspections were the orders for the day. It was cool and there were only two boats within 20 miles. They finished the boarding with the other boat as I passed by, and they ran up to me and boarded me as well.

After they had been on a while and we had been shooting the bull, I asked "I notice you ask permission to board, what if I had said no?". They laughed and said "We would have boarded anyway, we were just being polite. Our visit would have been much less friendly."

OldDan1943 said:

You make a very good training aid.

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The CG Aux gets paid... maybe I should too?

Great Laker said:

The CG Aux gets paid... maybe I should too?

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Good luck with that.

HARK, did you hear the snap of the rubber gloves? LOL

The USCGAUX doesnt get paid otherwise I would be one...

I already have some of the uniform stuff...

I think the USCG AUX guys get their fuel paid for. Maybe some other expenses.

Ski in NC said:

I think the USCG AUX guys get their fuel paid for. Maybe some other expenses.

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true...

Larry, what do you think would have happened if AFTER the second inspection, you politely asked for the Commander's name and phone number? If you called and asked why two inspections in two days?

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Larry, what do you think would have happened if AFTER the second inspection, you politely asked for the Commander's name and phone number? If you called and asked why two inspections in two days?

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As the saying goes, "don't poke the bear"

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Larry, what do you think would have happened if AFTER the second inspection, you politely asked for the Commander's name and phone number? If you called and asked why two inspections in two days?

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We were on the Great Loop, which is a fantastic adventure unlike anything we had ever done before, and were moving on north up the ICW in a few days. It was not a good time to engage on this issue. If I was living locally, I might have just set up a meeting with the Commander as you suggest.

Fox Stated:

As the saying goes, "don't poke the bear"





True, but if you hide behind a rock you won't get mud on you either.

If it bothers you and has cost you a half of day of cruising then why not ask why? Maybe the Commander will instruct the trainees to back off the multiple inspections. Never know unless you ask. Of course this is done with politeness and respect.

psneeld said:

The USCGAUX doesnt get paid otherwise I would be one...

I already have some of the uniform stuff...

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Yes, you are correct. I was thinking of the CG Reserves when I wrote that.

Members of the Coast Guard Reserve are paid for all time spent training or deployed. In addition, they receive most of the same benefits as full-time Coast Guard members, including tuition support, training and plenty of time on the water. Combine travel, career training and strength of character to see why the Coast Guard can be so rewarding.

Does anyone know if the CG personnel or CG Reserves have any role in training the CG AUX?

MurrayM said:

That makes sense.

I've never heard anyone in our area complaining about random police boardings, have you? How about back east? Australia? Europe?

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Never heard of random boardings in my area. They'll pull up alongside and have "a conversation", not much different than a DUI checkpoint. One of my buddies is on the RCMP boat in town. I'll ask him.

Although I have a current USCGA inspection sticker, I guess I own an inspection magnet. The tug seems to attract Auxiliary attention every month or so. Mostly they just want to walk through and see the layout. None of the inspections seem focused on safety issues. (They don't look very hard and have never tested smoke or CO detectors, looked closely at extinguishers or inspected the Y-valve.) I have a recently documented boat, but it hasn't been pulled to remove the state numbers. So, the USCGA doesn't know there is a documentation number and certificate inside. When the state numbers are removed in a few weeks, I'll move the state registration stickers to side windows at the helm.

I have been amused by those upset over being boarded. Isn't this just another extension of our safety laws? Why have mandatory life jacket laws, or flare laws, or any other safely contraption if there is no way to enforce it?. Many on this site were aghast/bemused when i mentioned my opposition to mandatory life jacket laws. This is merely an extension of the state's safety mandate. If you like safety laws, don't complain about their enforcement.

My personal record was three (3) times in one day - actually a 5-6 hour period. I was one of only a couple of boats mozying around the south shore of Lake Pontchartrain. They were training new guy Reservists and Auxillarists. Each time pulled up in an RBS that looked like a clown car - packed with people. First time was OK; second was stupid, but they've got to train; the third time the Senior Chief CPOIC and I had a red-faced discussion, they did not board, and I didn't see them the rest of the day.

And, referring to a prior comment, they did have a "machine gun" (M240, no belt, feed cover free [really], on the bow tripod. I expect that a typical civilian out for a cruise might find that intimidating. For Pete's sake, they have weather covers. Put them on when you're conducting this training - it's not like ambush is imminent during daylight on open water in the Lake.

I don't think the shift to Homeland Security has been good for the Coasties. The HS attitude seems to be rubbing off.

Sounds like a very sensible course of action.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Larry, what do you think would have happened if AFTER the second inspection, you politely asked for the Commander's name and phone number? If you called and asked why two inspections in two days?

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danderer said:

Sounds like a very sensible course of action.

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With regard to making a complaint to the local commandant...

I have issued complaints on occasion to the county sheriff, township managers, and city officials, regarding violations of Nuisances Per Sa and zoning ordinances. These rarely go anywhere despite following their procedures for filing. You need to be really committed and push hard to get any meaningful followup.

Again, if I lived in the area and wasn't on a fabulous vacation, I likely might have pursued this course.