What would you do?

Marin, if I could afford to upgrade, to be honest, the main reasons I would get another boat would be....

1. To get a bit bigger, for better functionality, but not much bigger.

2. By far the main reason, to get newer. Ok, maybe newer still starts wearing out, but it takes longer, and frankly at times I get sick of there always being something that has to be done because it is old, and no longer working properly/looking good/as reliable as it should be. Like just today I have had to take my (thankfully able to be serviced and got working again) anchor winch, which never let us down - until now, down to re-install. One upside was while doing this I discovered why my hot water system was not heating. The circuit was plugged with crud, which I finally managed to clear by threading curtain wire through each side, then setting up a flushing system with hose and a few cunning temporary connections, and flushed it all over the side. Another problem solved, but in a newer boat it would have been unnecessary. To top that off, having not long ago re-painted the whole boat (the hull professionally re-sprayed with 2 pack), I have identified a possibly suspect patch in one cabin wall, which was not evident when I repainted, and may well mean a soft rotted patch which will require a section of the cabin wall to be cut out and replaced. Yes, with timber you can do it, but it costs, and one always fears it might become a 'can of worms' when you start a job like that. Oh, for a solid fibreglass superstructure, like the hull. Later models all are. Is the superstructure of your GB 36 fibreglass Marin, or just glass over ply? If the latter then that alone in my view, is a sound reason for not sinking a lot of money into a re-fit. Just sayin'....as they say....

Marin,* I think the bottom line is you guys have to decide if you want a bigger boat.

If you are serious about becoming an owner of one of Tony Flemings creations, than pouring more money into your GB beyond keeping her going is counterproductive.

Newer is better, as time passes improvements are made to any boat and good builders often incorporate owner suggestions in later models.

PassageMaker Oct 2006,* Has a good article to read--"Evolving a Dreamboat The Fleming 55"* It is all about the hull numbers and when certain improvements came into effect.

I think the retro fit would be full of expensive suprizes and the end result would be not much different than the begining.

JohnP

Write a couple of books, get the Fleming. Or some day you'll be sitting on your porch with your grand dogs telling them what you wished you had done....

-- Edited by Giggitoni on Sunday 6th of November 2011 01:51:36 PM

Marin

From personal experience of "trying" to perfect older items, boats, cars, buildings*and such... I also recomend you get a newer boat that is already*in GREAT condition at date of purchase.* Of course, there will be some items you may like to improve even above its Great condition.* That said; for many reasons, when we search to locate our Pacific cruiser in future years I believe it will be kept to 50' or just under.*

Good luck!*

Hi Marin

option 1 is what i have now, 42 gb europa but someone else did the real big ones, (motors, gearboxes, throughulls, strainers, aircons, switchboards,electronics,) and just about every piece of metal in or on the hull, all they left for me to do was the cosmetics which we completed last january . Lovely boat to cruise in ,Oh: didn't mention it's an 83 model, if your boat suits what you want it for then spend the money,they don't put pockets in schrouds?

Bob Moxham
Grand Finale

Gold Coast
Australia

option 1 is what i have now, 42 gb europa but someone else did the real big ones, (motors, gearboxes, throughulls, strainers, aircons, switchboards,electronics,) and just about every piece of metal in or on the hull

Interesting that a boat with a fairly good reputation like GB would require this amount of work to stay floating!

Fred, *I think "reputation" is in the minds of people much more than in the hulls of boats. Marin never says "In our boat we have da da da."*He always says "In our GB we .......". He never misses a chance to drop the name GB. He is proud of his boat and he's FAR from alone on this thread. Art thinks if God had a boat it would be a Tollycraft. Mark never misses a chance to post a picture of his boat and I'm basically the same. I think there's a much bigger difference in hull design than quality of build. And in their defense that's one of the wonderful things about owning a boat. They are such a thing of beauty and grace and as we get close to them we have a hard time (unconsciously of course) imagining one better so we tend to get a little proud but I suspect that most boats are created much more equal than we think. BMW's, Saabs, Cadillacs and Hondas are also viewed as quality vehicles too but hardly different from Kias, Fords, Volkswagens, Nissans and Chevrolets. I'm not saying an old 22' Fiberform is comparable to a late Ocean Alexander but I'll bet the're closer than you think and that's about the most extreme example I can think of. But the fact that the manufacturers drilled many hundreds of holes in the decks of their "quality" boats just because most everybody else did shows quality is'nt very deep and the're mostly all made of tickey tacky and they all look just the same. I just went too far but I could'nt resist.

nomadwilly wrote:
Art thinks if God had a boat it would be a Tollycraft.

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*****

You are quite correct Eric... We're all a bit screwy about our beloved boats.* That's why we call them all HER or SHE!* And, as so often is*said... Get Married to Them!

nomadwilly wrote:
*Marin never says "In our boat we have da da da."*He always says "In our GB we .......". He never misses a chance to drop the name GB. He is proud of his boat and he's FAR from alone on this thread.

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Eric--- GB is faster to type than b-o-a-t.* Also, if all you say is "boat" there will always be someone who asks "what kind of boat do you have?"* The real snobs are the ones who say "Grand Banks" every time

Peter-- GBs have solid fiberglass hulls and superstructures.* The decks and cabin tops are fiberglass-marine ply-fiberglass sandwiches.* The cabin structure of a GB--- at least the older ones-- have wood framing attached to the inside of the fiberglass shell to hold the bulkheads, interior walls, to provide stiffening where needed, and so forth.* But they are not glassed-over plywood.

Then you are lucky, and it probably is worth the re-fit. When I look at what Lotus has suffered over the yrs, the only issues not experienced on all boats just due to normal wear and tear are those related to the stupid screwing down of teak decks and making the core vulnerable, (fixed by the PO), and those pertaining to dry (damp) rot getting into the superstructure because the early cabins were just glass over (sometimes dodgy) ply. (Mostly fixed by the PO, but it looks like I'm going to inherit a re-do in one place at least).

put the same amount of money toward a different boat?

If "different" = "bigger" then yes.

"I think there's a much bigger difference in hull design than quality of build."

The real difference is weather the boat is safe off soundings .And "quality of build" SCANTLINGS count.

Most plaining or SD boats never qualify as the glass areas are too large and too thin, and the hull not stressed for sea work.

I can't imagine the consequences of falling (or being tossed) off a 15 ft wave in most TT of ANY build.

My usual question , on a brown water boat , is why the trawler configuration?

The std motor yacht house frequently has even more room.

FF wrote:

My usual question , on a brown water boat , is why the trawler configuration?

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***For*brown water boating, it is a matter of design preference that draws people to trawlers.

*********If you like a contemporary clean look--get a motoryacht

******** If you like a ultramodern space ship-- get a bloatboat roomarian

*********If you like a salty character boat-- get a Lobsta boat or Trawler.

******** If you have a multimillion dollar boating buget you could get a trawler built for blue water service, but if you want to cross oceans on a shoe string you better get a solid well built Sailboat!

JohnP

" If you like a salty character boat-- get a Lobsta boat or Trawler."

So the "Salty" look is the reason so many will spend years replacing "Chinese Composite" (a layer of GRP over house plywood) on decks and deck structures?

Shades of the "Greek Fisherman's Cap" , from 4-5 decades ago!!!

Strutting the dock is more important than how the vessel does its job ???

No wonder so few untie these boats from the dock!

FF wrote:
" If you like a salty character boat-- get a Lobsta boat or Trawler."

So the "Salty" look is the reason so many will spend years replacing "Chinese Composite" (a layer of GRP over house plywood) on decks and deck structures?

Shades of the "Greek Fisherman's Cap" , from 4-5 decades ago!!!

Strutting the dock is more important than how the vessel does its job ???

No wonder so few untie these boats from the dock!

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Luckily no deck or house repairs needed here that I can tell. But yes. I suppose I bought what I liked. Is that wrong???:smile: I do like the "Brown Water" term. Where did it come from?

"I do like the "Brown Water" term. Where did it come from? "

It is commercial slang by/for the many folks that work the waterways , and along the coast.

Blue Water is its companion term for the folks that head off the Continental shelf, and beyond.

"I suppose I bought what I liked. Is that wrong???"

NEVER!!! Boats are the real "Adult Toys" , so your Desirements are #1!

I think "brown water" is an east coast slang term. I've never heard it out here on the west coast. Too bad their water is brown. And Steve Fred will always use slang if there is any available and if not he frequently make stuff up. Lets just say he adds color to the page * ......when it's understandable and much of the time it is.

The term "brown water" is said to have originated during the American Civil War to describe the growing fleet of gunboats and monitors that operated on the rivers during the last years of the war. It became a Navy term at about that time. There was the "blue water" fleet that operated in the open ocean for sustained periods of time, the "green water" fleet, which operated in coastal areas on shorter missions, and the "brown water" fleet that operated on inland waterways and rivers. These terms were used in publications at that time.

The term was also widely used in the Viet Nam war. The first time I ever heard the term was in Hawaii when as a college kid I was involved on the fringes of the testing of an experimental riverine gunboat. The civilians and Navy people involved in the project used the term "brown water" all the time to describe the environment where these types of boats operated. There are several books about the riverine forces in Viet Nam: "Brown Water, Red Blood, "Brown Water, Black Berets," "The Brownwater Navy."

brown,brown go aground,green green keeps the botton clean,blue blue go on thru???

Man has this thread ever morphed.

So Marin. What would you do?

skipperdude wrote:
Man has this thread ever morphed.* So Marin. What would you do?

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*Don't know and won't until/unless we're in a position to make a decision.* Both options have their appeals and both have their negatives.

I can tell you what we won't do.* We won't exhange our boat for the same basic type of boat.* It makes no sense to buy someone else's problems simply for the sake of getting a "different" boat.

We aren't going to buy a brand new boat.

We aren't interested in getting bigger for bigger's sake.* The two boats we are considering as a replacement for our own boat are on the list because we simply really like the boats, particularly the FL55.* There are a couple of other boats we really like as well and are not as big as the FL55, but they are not on the list because they are both single engine boats.

So we'll see what happens.

Marin wrote:skipperdude wrote:
Man has this thread ever morphed.* So Marin. What would you do?

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*Don't know and won't until/unless we're in a position to make a decision.* Both options have their appeals and both have their negatives.

I can tell you what we won't do.* We won't exhange our boat for the same basic type of boat.* It makes no sense to buy someone else's problems simply for the sake of getting a "different" boat.

We aren't going to buy a brand new boat.

We aren't interested in getting bigger for bigger's sake.* The two boats we are considering as a replacement for our own boat are on the list because we simply really like the boats, particularly the FL55.* There are a couple of other boats we really like as well and are not as big as the FL55, but they are not on the list because they are both single engine boats.

So we'll see what happens.

*Not possible to add a get home/wing engine on those other models?

charles wrote:
Marin,

You mentioned that you intend to change engines and that you have only 2,000 or so hours on yours, why change?

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That's a REALLY good question and one that will take some wrestling with if we should end up refitting our boat.* I don't like Lehmans.* Never have, never will.* They're heavy, noisy, inefficient, and polluting.* Big engine, not much power.* All that said, they work and work well and reliably.* They're easy to work on.* They're also 38 years old right now.

So the dilema is to keep them or replace them with something brand new, *lighter, quieter, more efficient, and cleaner.* Given the other things we would want to do with the boat, the engines have to come out anyway.* Installing new engines gets us zero time engines that have every advantage over the Lehmans.* Keeping the Lehmans reduces the refit cost by quite a bit.

*

psneeld wrote:

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*Not possible to add a get home/wing engine on those other models?

Probably, if you threw enough money at the boats.* But we're not interested in that.* We want two real engines, two full-size*props, two rudders, etc..* Not one engine and a crutch to limp home on.

You are playing us like a cheap drum in a high school marching band Marin. Have you changed your mind about any thing since your first post on this subject? ...just askin' of course.

Doc wrote:
Have you changed your mind about any thing since your first post on this subject? ...just askin' of course.

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*No, but as I said in the original post, I'm using what we may be facing decision-wise simply as an example of the question.* I said from the outset I wasn't looking for input or advice--- we have long since determined our two options and those are the only two options we are considering.* I thought I made that all pretty clear right off the bat in post #1.

I posed the question because I'm*curious about what other people might do if faced with the same situation simply because I'm curious and because it can be a rather interesting excercise. It also makes you think about how one's own boat could be improved and*if it would be worth improving.

Most responders focused on our already-cast-in-concrete options instead of talking about what they might do in a similar situation with regards to their own boats.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 9th of November 2011 07:48:01 PM

charles wrote:
Remember that any NEW engine will NOT BE A NATURAL, that is a HUGE factor for me. I turned down two boats when I was shopping in 1985 because they had turbos.

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Unless they have discontinued it (and I have not been tracking their engine offerings for the last few years) Northern Lights (aka Alaska Diesel Electric) offers a 150hp NA six-cylinder Lugger*engine that was an ideal repower for boats like GBs that were built with the Lehman.* That is what we would use if it's still available.

I don't have an inherent dislike of turbocharged engines.* It's not like it's brand new technology, and I think an intelligently designed turbo powerplant can be as reliable as anything else assuming it's operated and maintained properly, which*should be the practice with any engine anyway regardless of age or type.

But your basic "keep the Lehmans"*statement makes a lot of sense.* Our Lehmans definitely have some advantages, two of them being their*relatively low time and the fact*they're already paid for.* A very*good case can be made for keeping them.* How much my inherent dislike of these engines would factor in the decision*would depend on what our research into available new engines uncovered.

Just one question Marin...If you can trust your very life to one engine in the air, as you do all the time in you float plane, how come you can't trust one engine on the water...especially as you have said many times it is not for the manoeuvring advantage..?

How did this thread turn into ANOTHER debate about single versus dual engines? ;-) Might-as-well start an anchor debate next. :-D

As a late-comer to this party, place my vote in the column of taking the money and making the nicest specimen of a '73 Grand Banks you have ever seen. Make a punch-list of every project you have EVER dreamed of and get started. You love your current boat, it's a proven winner, and you could be the envy of all the Grand Bankers. Bigger and newer is nice, but I just think that it's a lot of work to relearn everything that it takes to keep such a big boat up-to-snuff from scratch.

If you want idea what to do this extra cash... Build a wing at your local animal shelter :-D

GonzoF1 wrote:
How did this thread turn into ANOTHER debate about single versus dual engines? ;-) Might-as-well start an anchor debate next. :-D

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*Have you ever been out with someone that says "That port engine is giving me a little trouble."

If you only have one engine that doesn't happen . You don't go out.

SD