Generator suggestions.

OK bought a new to me 1985 34T MK III. has the 200hp Perkins.
No generator onboard. But the elec. panels are setup for one.
I'm guessing the genny sits behind the engine ? Where does the exhaust exit. There is a large metal thru hull on the back aft port side in the area of the lazarette. Looks to be blocked off. Did the genny sit back in there ? Long run for a genny in the engine room. Has the single 200 gallon fuel tank in there.

Many changes over the years. Found 4 water tanks. 3 hooked up to 1 fill and 1 vent. They are gone for 1 new one and 1 original one hooked up right. Need to dig the last one out of the lazarette to see the thru hull.

Any suggestions on a generator ? Size ? Mainly want it to run the water heater for showers and morning coffee. Maybe not at the same time.

With that kind of load- hot water, coffee and of course battery charging; you don't want a big genset. For light duty use, maybe a couple of dozen overnights each year I would look at one of the 3.5KW units made by NextGen or Phasor.

I have the NextGen unit. The single cylinder Kubota engine runs at 2,800 rpm as the generator is belt driven at 1,800 rpm. It is a solid engine and a well known Markon generator end with a simple capacitor exciter circuit. Not much to go wrong. The enclosure keeps the engine noise down but the exhaust is a little put-putty due to the single cylinder.

Mine handles the loads you mentioned just fine. With the batteries well discharged and my 100A charger I am not sure you can run all three: charger, water heater and coffee maker at the same time. The charger pulls 15A AC with discharged batteries. But once the charger load drops to less than 10A AC it will run all three.

It can run the 12,000 BTU A/C but not with the hot water heater and coffee pot simultaneously. Just manage your loads and you will keep a 3.5 KW unit happy and well loaded.

The cost is almost half of a top of the line 5 KW Northern Lights genset.

David

Welcome Solly. On the MKI the generator did sit just aft of the engine on a shelf spanning the stringers. The exhaust exited port side aft on the transom.
For hot water you can get a water heater with a heat exchanger that uses engine heat to heat the water, but of course only works when engine is running or hot for awhile after shutdown. Most marine hot water heater manufacturers offer this as an option and the plumbing is very simple and straightforward.
In your area you should have no problem getting service on any major brand. Northern Lights is typically considered one of the best if not the best. The other major brands like Kohler and Westerbeke seem to make good product. Mainship put Next Gen 3.5's in many Pilots, people seem to swear at them or by them. For A/C 4.5 -5 kw I think is the minimum to run an A/C and just a few other low energy items. Less for your needs, but many smaller units run at more than 1800RPM and are often called the "mouse that roared."

My $0.02

As suggested above plumb the water heater to the main engine.
As for the coffee, install an inverter. Both of those projects are going to be a lot less money than a generator.
However, if you want more than that, for example air conditioning, then you’ll need a generator.

My personal choice is strictly related to the generator’s rpms. I would prefer 1800 over 3600. If an 1800 rpm engine is used to drive the genny, it will have greater HP than one operating at the higher rpms. Not picking on 3600 machines, just my preference.

Slow spinners for me as well.
Also bear in mind that pretty much all of the big name big expense gensets use someone else's engine and end.
You could always buy based on data and componentry vs advertising and what the rest of the herd does

FOG said:

As suggested above plumb the water heater to the main engine.
As for the coffee, install an inverter. Both of those projects are going to be a lot less money than a generator.
However, if you want more than that, for example air conditioning, then you’ll need a generator.

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Coffee?
What about gas - we have plenty of power but don't use electric for coffee.

For that little load, go inverter/charger and at least four 6 volt golf cart batteries for a house bank and a 100 amp alternator. If you had air conditioning, yes you would need a small gen around 3.5-4 Kw.

This is the install on my M1. Think this is where they were OEM.

Yes Jeff, that is the original OEM install place where Mainship put the legendary CrossPower single cylinder Volvo powered genset.

Nice looking engine space BTW, very nice

Jeff F said:

This is the install on my M1. Think this is where they were OEM.

View attachment 74940

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Simi 60 said:

Also bear in mind that pretty much all of the big name big expense gensets use someone else's engine and end.

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Yes and it gets stranger. We're installing a 1.2 megawatt Kohler unit now in our building. It has a Mitsubishi engine (2000+ hp), a Stamford head-end, and was built in France!

We truly live in an international world.

Thanks guys, great ideas and info !!
Boat does have heat and AC but not worried about using it. Fair weather boater. If it's to hot, cold, or windy we stay home ! Nice plugged in at the dock though..
Water heater plumbed to the engine is a good way to go. I've had one b-4 and it worked OK for our use.
Not a big fan of inverters. Another way to drain the batteries. Trying to avoid that. We do have 2 group 31's for a house bank. But new to us boat and a 12V fridge I'm not sure about the loads. Time will tell. At least the start battery is separate.
Do have an LPG stove top could always learn to perk coffee....
Have to look for a used genny if we get one. For what we need a new one would be a stretch.

One thing to be aware of with used generators is age. For example, we have a Koehler 7.5KW genny that is the cat’s meow. The problem is that it is almost impossible to purchase many replacement parts for this great machine. Last year I had a machine shop make a needed part for the cooling system because none were available. There is a company in North Carolina that does sell many parts but at the time I needed one, it was not available.

Our 34 MKIII boat is also in Solomons, hauled out at the moment which we self installed a generator in our two years ago, the boat never had one before. Placed the generator where Jeff F has his but across the boat rather than in line with the centerline. The exhaust runs thru a lift can muffler and then aft down the port side. It is a big job I wouldn't recommend everyone to take for themselves but I is at least worthwhile to educate yourself on the how's and why’s of it's placement and configuration so you can operate and maintain it correctly. We went with a very small company called Alpha Generators, the owner was great to work with. I never hesitate to crank it up and run the AC as you know the humidity on the bay can be misserable in the summer, it really makes life better, that said the biggest improvement made on the boat to date has been an autopilot. I can PM my number if you are interested in seeing how we set the generator up, the boat is at Calvert Marina now, hauled out.

Solly, I just looked at your profile and recognized your boat, we are about 4 boats to starboard of you right behind the tree service trucks, boat is named ”Still Pandemonium” I noticed your boat a couple of weeks ago, it looks great. We should be getting launched this coming Friday. Small world.

“Do have an LPG stove top could always learn to perk coffee.... “

Perked coffee in the morning is one of the great joys of waking up on my boat.

The genset in our '87 Mk III was in the lazarette. Don't know if it was an "OEM" install or not, but Luhrs Group companies often left lots of stuff (ACs, maybe generators) to their dealers for installation after deliver from the factory...

I don't remember the brand or size... but we had AC so it was big enough to run that plus water heater and so forth at the same time.

FWIW, I'd prefer generators that can charge their own battery.

Solly said:

Thanks guys, great ideas and info !!
Boat does have heat and AC but not worried about using it. Fair weather boater. If it's to hot, cold, or windy we stay home ! Nice plugged in at the dock though..
Water heater plumbed to the engine is a good way to go. I've had one b-4 and it worked OK for our use.
Not a big fan of inverters. Another way to drain the batteries. Trying to avoid that. We do have 2 group 31's for a house bank. But new to us boat and a 12V fridge I'm not sure about the loads. Time will tell. At least the start battery is separate.
Do have an LPG stove top could always learn to perk coffee....
Have to look for a used genny if we get one. For what we need a new one would be a stretch.

Click to expand...

We found July and August around here to be bearable at anchor because we could run the AC during the days for a while when necessary.

I think I remember our stove was a combination alcohol and electric. The alcohol part sucked, and the electric part was another reason we appreciated having the genset at anchor.

An inverter would have been great. Plenty of room to add more batteries, and that way we could have made morning coffee (coffeemaker) and evening popcorn (microwave) without have to start the generator at less convenient times. We'd usually run the genset to heat water and do real cooking at least once/day anyway, but not having to start it at oh-dark-thirty in the morning for coffee, or just to heat up hors d'oeuvres for Happy Hour (for example) would have been an improvement.

We could do perk coffee on the propane grill in the cockpit, though, and that was a decent option.

-Chris

Solly said:

Do have an LPG stove top could always learn to perk coffee....

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If you don't mind making a cup at a time, an Aeropress is what we use so we don't have to use the 120V coffeemaker. It makes the best cup of coffee you'll find. With guests aboard, we plug in the coffeemaker. No worries with the inverter and a 1200 AH bank.

You really do need to determine your energy (not just electic) needs first and then figure out how to provide it. It would probably best to run the boay as is for a season to figure out your needs. For those that want AC away from the dock, there is no practical way around generator's but if that isn't a requirement for you, it shouldn't be hard to do without unless you spend alot of time anchored out. I find that the engine heated hot water tank is usually still warm enough for a shower in the morning if I ran the day before. The engine room stays warm for quite some time which keeps the water heater from losing much heat. Due to the engine room heat, it is pretty hot in the salon in the summer when running and for hours afterward. I usually only get hot after returning in a harbor where there is no breeze blowing and I am off the bridge, if you always return home or to a transient slip, you probably won't miss a generator at all.

Gdavid said:

Solly, I just looked at your profile and recognized your boat, we are about 4 boats to starboard of you right behind the tree service trucks, boat is named ”Still Pandemonium” I noticed your boat a couple of weeks ago, it looks great. We should be getting launched this coming Friday. Small world.

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That is funny !!
We've been trying to get stuff done on the boat and haven't really looked around at the other boats.
Going to try and get 'Sun Runner' launched soon too.
If we're still together there, and all there at the same time, I'd love to get a look at another 34 ! We have a slip at Calvert Marina out on the point.
First year with it and a big learning curve. Not our first boat but I like to dig into the systems and have some idea what works and how.
Thanks!!

We have a nextgen 3.5kw with just under 200 hours on it. Support and service has been excellent. Run AC 16k, Microwave, electric stove, 4-bank charger, and sat TV without overload. We try to limit running (especially starting) all the loads at once. The Marineaire AC has the soft-start feature that helps. I think I'm around 7K installed. Then next step up almost doubled the price tag. I bought direct from the company in Jacksonville, FL.

We should be going back in friday but will see you around. The boat is my father's, I do much of the off season maintenance as well as put many hours on it during the summer. It is kept at Ward's Marina on Mill Creek which is a small place run by a family in the pier business, our previous boat was kept there for 17 years. It is down Ward's Rd on the left shortly before you enter the Calvert Marina gate. My folks are ski bums, driving their way back from Utah at the moment. I have been scrambling to barrier coat and paint the bottom between the days of cold weather. Just finished up the last of painting and replacing the stern thruster yesterday (no bow thruster). We have only had it 3 years now but done a fair amount to it and enjoy looking at other ones. Your custom enclosure caught my attention, curious how the windage affects docking.
-Buddy David (son of Bob & Trish)

Your custom enclosure caught my attention, curious how the windage affects docking.
-Buddy David (son of Bob & Trish)[/QUOTE]

I'm sure it'll be a joy to try and dock in the wind !! We are hoping the slip will be a little bit protected.
I'd love to have a stern thruster too along with the bow thruster. Still practice, practice, practice...Have to plan on opening the enclosure up when docking, let the wind blow thru !!
:lol:

just clearing something up about 1800 vs 3600 gensets.... in from the pros...

" An 8kW generator producing 8kW has an engine driving it that produces 8kW plus efficiency losses ... about 11 horsepower. Same-o same-o for both engines. It is very unclear what the guy is trying to say or what he means to tell the readers, if anything.

Just for discussion, a Northern Lights 8kW 1800 rpm generator uses an engine that is rated at maximum output of 15hp. One of the several 3600 rpm 8kW generators that use a Perkins 3600 rpm engine use the Perkins 402D-05G engine rated at just under 14 hp. So, while the maximum power available from the 3600 rpm is slightly less, it means that engine is working at or near its maximum output to obtain the same power from only 2 cylinders and will have a shorter life than the 3 cylinder 1800 rpm unit that is loaded much lower on the output curve. But, not considering efficiency losses, 8kW is 8kW is 8kW or 10.7 horsepower at any rpm."

Yes, you are right. The 3,600 rpm (or 2,800 for belt reduction gensets) engine is working way up on its hp curve vs the 1,800 rpm engine. It is probably producing twice the hp per cubic liter. That is why I only recommended the 2,800 rpm NextGen for light duty. If you are going to run it a lot, say several hundred hours a year, then get a 1,800 rpm genset.

David

Really the only thing that really that forces the need for a gennie is AC and heat. Water heater can be plumbed to main engine coolant and fridge, coffee pot, etc can be run off an inverter. Gennies are a PITA, especially if not run often.

If you do go with a gennie, the belt drive Kubota one-banger seems like a good fit. A bit noisy, but tolerable and a compact package.

A generator running at 1800 makes less noise and lasts longer than one running at 3600. Try to match your generator to a 60-80% load. Otherwise long hours at light loads will glaze the cylinders. It's worthwhile to have a load you can add when running light. Even a heater sat out on deck.
I run my water heater, laundry and water maker when a generator is running.

Ski in NC said:

Really the only thing that really that forces the need for a gennie is AC and heat. Water heater can be plumbed to main engine coolant and fridge, coffee pot, etc can be run off an inverter. Gennies are a PITA, especially if not run often.

If you do go with a gennie, the belt drive Kubota one-banger seems like a good fit. A bit noisy, but tolerable and a compact package.

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Yes, fridge and coffee can make good useage of an inverter. I presume you must have some means to recharge your batteries without a genny? Note, I didn’t read all the posts in this thread so you may have explained earlier that you have a genny and/or solar.

High wattage alternators do work but if at anchor or a mooring, not very efficient

foggysail said:

Yes, fridge and coffee can make good useage of an inverter. I presume you must have some means to recharge your batteries without a genny? Note, I didn’t read all the posts in this thread so you may have explained earlier that you have a genny and/or solar.

High wattage alternators do work but if at anchor or a mooring, not very efficient

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Only way currently to recharge is by running the main or dockside. We have done w/o a genny for years (another boat). The Mainship had a genny at one time and we were looking at options.
Not a live aboard but looking at anchoring out for several days to a week or at least longer than we have gone before. Although we would probably run-cruise somewhere to another anchorage during that time frame.
As above, I'll have to run the numbers and see how long the batteries will hold up...

Solly said:

Only way currently to recharge is by running the main or dockside. We have done w/o a genny for years (another boat). The Mainship had a genny at one time and we were looking at options.
Not a live aboard but looking at anchoring out for several days to a week or at least longer than we have gone before. Although we would probably run-cruise somewhere to another anchorage during that time frame.
As above, I'll have to run the numbers and see how long the batteries will hold up...

Click to expand...

I have a 7.5KW genny that we use for hot water and cooking while away. I also installed 4 each 295W mono solar panels along with a Victron 150-70 MPPT controller. My batteries are setup as two banks with each consisting of 4 each 215AH GC’s.

My point is the solar provides just about all of our power while away from our slip. Heck, we are power pigs with 2 TVs, 8.2 cuft 120VAC fridge with self defrost lights and my list just goes on. IF YOU HAVE THE ROOM for solar, it can make your family’s life far more comfortable and you can avoid running your big engine. Not picking on you at all, just trying to offer a helpful suggestion.