Active Captain Discontinuation

As discussed in the electronics forum, Polar Navy has been notified that Active Captain will cut off downloading of data to them right about now. I'm a Polar Navy user, quite like it, and don't want to purchase and go through the learning curve on something else. However, this will complicate my nightly planning of the next days runs.

Does anyone know if this cut off is specific to Polar Navy or if all similar navigation programs are also affected?

Ah.

ActiveCaptain is being discontinued

https://www.panbo.com/archives/2018...elivery_changing_but_free_access_assured.html

Looks like I'm going to have to choose between AC and PN.

Roger Long said:

Looks like I'm going to have to choose between AC and PN.

Click to expand...

You could continue to use PolarNav and get another app for AC stuff...

-Chris

ranger42c said:

You could continue to use PolarNav and get another app for AC stuff...-Chris

Click to expand...

Well, yeah. I can get the AC stuff directly from their site. But, when I'm doing route planning, it's very nice to have the AC Poi's right there on the chart so I can click on them as I'm drawing my route. Sometimes shoaling depth will be an issue and right there I can determine that I'd better leave earlier or later.

Now I have to go to one site, figure out what's important, write down the locations or switch to another computer window if it's something I want to be reminded of as I'm watching the chart plotter and then enter a waypoint with a note. This will just about double the time I spend each evening reviewing and planning.

If Polar Navy doesn't relent and decide to implement the new api, it will probably force me into the expense and learning curve of a different program.

Roger Long said:

Well, yeah. I can get the AC stuff directly from their site. But, when I'm doing route planning, it's very nice to have the AC Poi's right there on the chart so I can click on them as I'm drawing my route. Sometimes shoaling depth will be an issue and right there I can determine that I'd better leave earlier or later.

Now I have to go to one site, figure out what's important, write down the locations or switch to another computer window if it's something I want to be reminded of as I'm watching the chart plotter and then enter a waypoint with a note. This will just about double the time I spend each evening reviewing and planning.

If Polar Navy doesn't relent and decide to implement the new api, it will probably force me into the expense and learning curve of a different program.

Click to expand...

I expect it's just a meter of time before Polar navy figures out they will lose a lot of customers if they don't move to the new API.

I've been off line in the Bahamas for the last month and missed all this. Does this mean that we will no longer be able to download A/C data to Garmin Bluecharts on iPhones/ipads?

Roger Long said:

If Polar Navy doesn't relent and decide to implement the new api, it will probably force me into the expense and learning curve of a different program.

Click to expand...

Jeffrey will likely copy that quote and send it to Garmin to show them they made a good investment by buying AC.

I like AC information and I do see the value of having it integrated into your planning software. However, I’m not sure that I would make those kinds of product use decisions based on a crowd-source app that I have no control over. AC is free to us to use. That is good. OTOH, AC/Garmin has zero responsibility to us for its decisions going forward.

Roger Long said:

Well, yeah. I can get the AC stuff directly from their site. But, when I'm doing route planning, it's very nice to have the AC Poi's right there on the chart so I can click on them as I'm drawing my route. Sometimes shoaling depth will be an issue and right there I can determine that I'd better leave earlier or later.

Now I have to go to one site, figure out what's important, write down the locations or switch to another computer window if it's something I want to be reminded of as I'm watching the chart plotter and then enter a waypoint with a note. This will just about double the time I spend each evening reviewing and planning.

If Polar Navy doesn't relent and decide to implement the new api, it will probably force me into the expense and learning curve of a different program.

Click to expand...

That's a fair point. Another might be that if PolarNav isn't responsive to their customers, migration may be inevitable... and you can vote with your feet.

FWIW, we've found many of the AC hazard markers along our current trip to be much ado about nothing: "Shoaling! Over there! Two feet from shoreline! 100 feet out of the channel! Horrors!" Or another version: "Submerged object at such-and such location, usually nowhere near the channel! Horrors!" And we see the object is actually already on the chart.

Not to say we don't pay attention, but we use the marina info more than anything else. And we don't really do any micro-routing before-hand; usually only major obstacles (non-functioning low bridge, etc.) get our serious attention.

I digress: we've noticed a few times that something on the NOAA raster chart -- like markers that do actually exist -- aren't on the C-Map charts...

-Chris

ranger42c said:

FWIW, we've found many of the AC hazard markers along our current trip to be much ado about nothing: "Shoaling! Over there! Two feet from shoreline! 100 feet out of the channel! Horrors!" Or another version: "Submerged object at such-and such location, usually nowhere near the channel! Horrors!" And we see the object is actually already on the chart.

Click to expand...

Agreed. AC has been going downhill in this regard. I never believe anything about shoaling until I look at the comments. I'm not sure if the diminishing usefulness is the result of accumulating bad data or that Jeff is no longer spending a lot of time reviewing things. I'm sure there is no one at Garmin checking user input.

Humor question: Is it legal now to anchor somewhere that does not have an AC anchor symbol? I've been in anchorages with plenty of room and anchored over the AC spot and then had boats come in, see me, and leave. I watched one heading off into the dark on the ICW and I knew it was going to be about 30 miles before they could find another place.

ranger42c said:

FWIW, we've found many of the AC hazard markers along our current trip to be much ado about nothing: "Shoaling! Over there! Two feet from shoreline! 100 feet out of the channel! Horrors!" Or another version: "Submerged object at such-and such location, usually nowhere near the channel! Horrors!" And we see the object is actually already on the chart.

Not to say we don't pay attention, but we use the marina info more than anything else.
-Chris

Click to expand...

Ditto that.
I've used AC since Palm Centro days, I have the hat, so I've seen the changes. For some reason, 1st time ICW cruisers seem compelled to post *SOMETHING* to contribute. I recall having received a note from Jefferey confirming a post... back when. The information has since become diluted by all the superfluous postings about markers missing, shoaling on shore, the magenta line, and on. Yes, even missing markers hazards posted in the Bahamas.... as if...! Still, the information is useful if you sift through the noise.

It's not like some change wasn't anticipated with Garmin acquiring AC, particularly with Garmin's penchant for exclusivity. How it all shakes out remains to be seen. The marketplace will certainly influence changes, which are inevitable.

twistedtree said:

I expect it's just a meter of time before Polar navy figures out they will lose a lot of customers if they don't move to the new API.

Click to expand...

They lost me as a customer when they went to a subscription model. I have enough charting apps already; I don't need to pay a fee every year to that one.

Roger Long said:

...I've been in anchorages with plenty of room and anchored over the AC spot and then had boats come in, see me, and leave...

Click to expand...

And you're blaming that on AC? I could think of other reasons, but they wouldn't be flattering

CaptTom said:

They lost me as a customer when they went to a subscription model. I have enough charting apps already; I don't need to pay a fee every year to that one.

Click to expand...

I'd forgotten about the subscription. If I'm going to make a switch, I'd better do it before that comes due. What are you using now? I like PN so will probably go with whatever is most similar and includes AC.

Roger Long said:

I'd forgotten about the subscription. If I'm going to make a switch, I'd better do it before that comes due. What are you using now? I like PN so will probably go with whatever is most similar and includes AC.

Click to expand...

I'd say OpenCPN would be my next go-to. Whatever software comes with whatever cartography you're using would be next. I work on one boat that uses C-Map cards, so their PC-Planner is on my laptop. My Garmin chip works with their HomePort software. Navionics is good stuff if you use it anywhere.

No A/C with opencpn

I use MxMariner for Android on a tablet and my phone. It uses NOAA charts (in the US) and overlays the ActiveCaptain markers on the charts. Still worked as of 3/30/18.

Here's my strategy: my older Garmin 5212, which is no longer supported by Garmin, will become my radar viewer. Since my GarminHD radar only works with a Garmin chart plotter, once either the chartplotter or radar dies, they will be replaced by non Garmin radar.

Next, I'm moving to two pc's, both running Rose Point Coastal Explorer. If Rose Point continues to integrate Active Captain - great. If not, by then much of this will have shaken out.

I have had a terrific five year run with Active Captain. It has changed the way I cruise in many positive ways. Either Garmin will figure this out or someone New will see the opportunity and bring us something better.

Arch

SEAiq and AC

I just went to the home page of SEAiq that I use on the iPad and they had this announcement:

Important: ActiveCaptain
We are informed on May 23, 2018 Garmin will be make incompatible changes to the ActiveCaptain server. After this date, the current ActiveCaptain data will continue to work in SEAiq. However, no further updates will be available for download. We recommend users sync offline data on their devices before the May 23 cut-off. We are considering updating SEAiq support for ActiveCaptain but do not have definite plans yet.

Bummer for SEAiq users unless they update support for the "new" AC.

I think the entire electronic charts systems are in transition.
Maybe Garmin will make their system compatible only with Garmin to encourage folks to buy Garmin.

So now PolarNav and SeaIQ have both announced dropping further support for Active Captain data. I wonder if others will follow and it will become a Garmin only show.

I suspect that there is something more going on here than meets the eye. Maybe Jeff worked hard with developers when he owned his company and now Garmin doesn't make it easy to integrate AC with outside apps. Many of these navigation apps were built by small developers and they may have decided it just isn't worth it to put their limited resources into making AC data available.

I for one will make one final update to AC data on my SeaIQ app and hope that this situation sorts itself out before the data gets too stale.

David

djmarchand said:

So now PolarNav and SeaIQ have both announced dropping further support for Active Captain data.

Click to expand...

That is not what SeaIQ said. The exact quote is:

We are considering updating SEAiq support for ActiveCaptain but do not have definite plans yet.

Click to expand...

If AC support in SeaIQ is important to you I suggest emailing Mark (the developer) and letting him know.

I use MXMariner (purchased 2 years ago from A/C) on a tablet as my sole chart plotter. Active Captain is used in trip planning for marinas mostly. Most hazards seem to be mis-marked or non existent. Take everything with a grain of salt.

Email from Aquamap said they will update as soon as garmin releases the spec.

meridian said:

Email from Aquamap said they will update as soon as garmin releases the spec.

Click to expand...

This might be part of the issue. The timeline for this whole change has been very short. We first heard about it last month, with a cutoff of the old API in May. For any sort of professionally developed product, the release cycle is much longer than that. To learn of a change that will render your product incompatible with something moving forward, and only have 2 months to plan, implement, test, and release is ridiculous. Maybe not an issue for two guys and an iPhone app, but for a professional product, it's a problem, and at a minimum a huge disruption to whatever their plans were.

Getting back to Aquamap's comment, if the new API has not yet been fully specified and released, including something for people to test against, then I would expect a lot of companies to respond as SeaIQ has, which basically translates into "f-em, we'll do this when we have time and it fits in with our other priorities". In fact, even if specs and test platforms were available with 2 months notice, I would still expect the SeaIQ response. They do not live to jump at Garmin's or AC's command.

I wonder what percentage of customers buy a specific nav program because it has Active Captain support. It is a requirement for me.

twistedtree said:

In fact, even if specs and test platforms were available with 2 months notice, I would still expect the SeaIQ response. They do not live to jump at Garmin's or AC's command.

Click to expand...

If it's true that they haven't even released the specs yet, no wonder some vendors are upset. I'd be furious. It's just mind-boggling to think they'd be so arrogant as to do that. But after all, this IS Garmin.

meridian said:

I wonder what percentage of customers buy a specific nav program because it has Active Captain support. It is a requirement for me.

Click to expand...

I used to. I doubt I ever will again. I've pretty much lost faith in AC and Garmin. I suspect I'm not alone in also losing any motivation I had to help the AC "community" by working for free posting reviews.

Looks like an opportunity for someone to develop a new breed of Active Captain and make their own fortune...

Comodave said:

Looks like an opportunity for someone to develop a new breed of Active Captain and make their own fortune...

Click to expand...

I've been looking at three options which could be replacements for AC:

- Squiddio plug-in for OpenCPN, the free and open-source charting tool.
- Waterway Guides, an already-established cruising guide.
- Zulu Waterways - Already well established down under, looking to expand to other areas. Complete with smart phone app.

I haven't actually used any of these underway yet. My own take is:
- Squiddio shows real promise, being associated with an open-source platform, but from what I can tell they haven't really finished fleshing out how to capture the specific data types cruisers need.
- Waterway Guides is an unabashedly for-profit company, but their primary product is and always was cruising information. They'll be around for the long term and you know exactly what your contributions are going for and how they will be used by other cruisers.
- Zulu Waterways is most like the old AC, and if they can get a toe hold in North America and/or Europe, could easily fill the gap that AC left behind.

At this point my own plan is to contribute to the WWG and Zulu, and keep an eye on Squiddio to see how the data storage format issue is resolved.

Will Active Captain data go away on all/most non Garmin navigation systems? I doubt it. This is what I know and surmise:

Garmin has had to change Active Captain to comply with European privacy rules for data sharing, just like Facebook has to comply. These rules are scheduled for implementation next month but they are in a bit of flux. So Garmin can't issue its specifications to outside developers until the rules are finalized.

Sure that means that Garmin nav apps will implement the specs first and most others will have to wait while Garmin goes through the Beta changes before it can finalize the specs for others. That is normal.

I am a little surprised at the two announcements by PolarNav and SEAiq that they will go static and not update AC data after May 23, presumably the date the European rules go into effect. Going static while Garmin finalizes their spec is to be expected, but the announcements seem to say that they will not implement the new spec. Others like AquaMap say that they will implement the new spec.

I have no idea how hard implementing the spec will be and I suspect that Garmin won't support outsiders as well as Jeff did when he owned AC and all nav apps were outsiders to him. I think we will have to see how it goes, but I suspect competitive pressures will force SEAiq and PolarNav to go along. Many consider the availability of AC data to be critical. I do.

David

Someone wake me when this is all sorted out.

I was told by CE that they are reviewing AC. They would not commit either way, which means AC maybe on its way out for CE. I hope not.