Outboard trawlers

Scratchnsaw · Mar 22, 2018

Art said:
Outboard Potential - from "only a few years ago"

Seeing as powerful outboards have been around for decades... I believe it's primarily due to marine architects' expanded window of thinking out o' da box! I applaud that!!

Yep, but they put out a ton of smoke, unreliable, and the weight was excessive. But the outboard builders have more than doubled their hp limits from what use to be capped at 200 hp even when the four strokes came about.

But also the new set up with the wireless control features adds a new avenue for builders. But along those lines, the designs have changed in the larger hulls. When was the last time you saw a 50 foot semi open hull for playing on the water? It was all about big condos or overnight cruisers as you left the mid 20 foot.

Woodland Hills · Mar 22, 2018

BandB said:
A 60' Outboard Trawler has just been introduced. It's from Midnight Express and named their Pied-A-Mer, meaning Seaside Holiday Home. It has two master suites. 15' beam. 36000 pounds. It comes standard with Quad Seven Marine 627 hp outboards and top speed of 60 knots. There are optional surface drives which should move it close to 80 knots.

View attachment 74434

View attachment 74435

Now, certainly this could be equipped with smaller engines for trawler fans.

While this is obviously in jest as to calling it a trawler, I also point to their 34' model which has a smaller cabin and an 11' beam. For all the work others have done to try to produce a mid 30's foot range outboard trawler, I can easily see doing the loop in the 34 or 60' models with smaller engines. Plus the 34' is moveable (trailer but 11'). These are proven hull designs.

Here's the 34.

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View attachment 74437

I know it seems crazy on the surface to put a high performance center console here. However, this is a Miami builder and I'm sure could easily customize either boat with smaller engines. Seems to me that the 34 or their 37' Cabin Model or some other CC builder's larger model with cabins could be a very reasonable starting place.

I could easily see doing the loop in such a boat. You have the incredible open view and yet still good sleeping, eating, relaxing quarters below.

Shows again that the potential of what can be done with outboards is far greater than it was only a few years ago.

How does it run on quad High-thrust 50's? 200hp should be more than enough to push it to hull speed, do you think they would build me one?

BandB · Mar 22, 2018

Woodland Hills said:
How does it run on quad High-thrust 50's?

I have no idea. Would be very interesting to know. Or perhaps more reasonably triple 125's or something. I'd be interested in knowing the last hp that would plane some of these boats.

Capt Jack · Mar 22, 2018

Scratchnsaw said:
Yep, but they put out a ton of smoke, unreliable, and the weight was excessive.

In the last 10 to 15 years the move to 4 stroke has solved the smoke issue. I had a 150 Yamaha 4 stroke that was amazing. I grew up with the old 2 stroke technology and they were obnoxious but recent outboards have solved that issue.

John

Art · Mar 22, 2018

BandB said:
Also, Gulfstream just announced a 66'.

View attachment 74441

I still believe in the potential of outboards for trawler type cruising and think ultimately we'll see better execution of the concept than some of the versions so far.

I agree!

ssobol · Mar 22, 2018

Ranger/Cutwater make outboard trawlers in the 30' range. Some are single and some are twins. The engines are in the 250hp range.

As for the comments about OBs and docks. Yes, there can be some risk of bashing the OB motor against the dock. This can usually be solved by turning the boat around. Also, while there may be more risk of bashing an OB than an IB. If you did happen to hit something, the repair of the OB is going to be easier and cheaper than a similar repair to an IB.

With an OB there are no failure scenarios that will sink your boat (other than ripping it completely off the transom). How many IB boats have sunk because of a failure of some part of the cooling or exhaust systems?

Yes, you are moving considerable weight to the back of the boat. However, the boats are designed for this. It is not simply a matter of taking the engine of your IB out and hanging it on the back. Putting the motor(s) on the back gives you a large amount of additional space inside the boat. The amount of room taken up by two 300hp outboards is a fraction of the space required for two 300hp IB and their associated systems.

FWIW, the Cutwater 302 (w/twin 300 OB) can go in excess of 50 MPH.

Delta Dog · Mar 22, 2018

There are also diesel outboards that could be used too. With all the fuel you would have to have on board for gas outboards pushing a 60ft boat, I would feel safer with the diesel outboards....I know, back to really slow but isn't that what a trawler is all about anyway?

ssobol · Mar 22, 2018

Delta Dog said:
There are also diesel outboards that could be used too. With all the fuel you would have to have on board for gas outboards pushing a 60ft boat, I would feel safer with the diesel outboards....I know, back to really slow but isn't that what a trawler is all about anyway?

The Nimble line has outboard trawlers up to 29'. They use single OB and are designed to travel at "trawler speeds". Nimbles have been around for a long time.

The current design thrust for OB trawlers is to make them trailerable. This limits some of the design options. While you can get a longish boat, they tend to be narrow due to the trailering requirement. Someone needs to design a OB trawler boat in the 30-40' range with a beam of 10-12' with a couple of OBs in the corners. Similar in size to common IB trawlers. Sort of along the lines of the TT35 (dual OBs) but shaped more like the G37. Two moderate sized OBs could easily push a G37 at hull speed.

As for the fuel issues. IMO the OB solution is better for gas than IB because there is no enclosed engine room or bay where fumes and ignition sources can mix.

Benthic2 · Mar 22, 2018

You don't really get to recoup all the space that inboards take up if you move to an outboard, because the outboards hang off your stern by 3 feet.

ssobol · Mar 22, 2018

Benthic2 said:
You don't really get to recoup all the space that inboards take up if you move to an outboard, because the outboards hang off your stern by 3 feet.

And...?

Seems like the OBs are now 3 feet further away.

O C Diver · Mar 22, 2018

BandB said:
Also, Gulfstream just announced a 66'.

View attachment 74441

I still believe in the potential of outboards for trawler type cruising and think ultimately we'll see better execution of the concept than some of the versions so far.

With so many boats having 4 to 6 outboards, one has to wonder when we will see physically larger models with longer shafts and propellers more appropriate to the size of the boat. Looking at a 66' boat, one would expect propellers of 30" or more which should be much more efficient.

Ted

Art · Mar 22, 2018

O C Diver said:
With so many boats having 4 to 6 outboards, one has to wonder when we will see physically larger models with longer shafts and propellers more appropriate to the size of the boat. Looking at a 66' boat, one would expect propellers of 30" or more which should be much more efficient.

Ted

Talk about redundancy for get home motors. Lack of fuel could be a big problem though!

Donsan · Mar 22, 2018

ssobol said:
The current design thrust for OB trawlers is to make them trailerable. This limits some of the design options. While you can get a longish boat, they tend to be narrow due to the trailering requirement. Someone needs to design a OB trawler boat in the 30-40' range with a beam of 10-12' with a couple of OBs in the corners. Similar in size to common IB trawlers. Sort of along the lines of the TT35 (dual OBs) but shaped more like the G37. Two moderate sized OBs could easily push a G37 at hull speed.

Maybe it should be kept in mind the TT35 is a 6,500 lb planing boat and GH37/N37 is a 47,000 full displacement boat. Certainly, a lot of weight could be cut out of the N37 for an outboard design and maybe more weight using the construction techniques that are used in the TT35.

The allure of an outboard trawler is getting rid of the shafts and below water line thru hulls but there is still the issue of the genny which requires water cooling.

Benthic2 · Mar 22, 2018

With a speed of 80 knots and enough coffee, you could do the loop in a long weekend !! ( assuming you owned a gas company, and didn't want to see anything )

ssobol · Mar 22, 2018

Donsan said:
Maybe it should be kept in mind the TT35 is a 6,500 lb planing boat and GH37/N37 is a 47,000 full displacement boat. Certainly, a lot of weight could be cut out of the N37 for an outboard design and maybe more weight using the construction techniques that are used in the TT35.

The allure of an outboard trawler is getting rid of the shafts and below water line thru hulls but there is still the issue of the genny which requires water cooling.

The GH37 runs on twin 54 hp motors. Probably cruises around 7 knots. Hp is Hp. Twin 100hp outboards should have no problem with a boat that size.

You could use an air cooled inverter generator (e.g. Honda) or mount a water cooled gen on the back near the motors with local water pickups that don't penetrate the hull.

Woodland Hills · Mar 22, 2018

ssobol said:
The Nimble line has outboard trawlers up to 29'. They use single OB and are designed to travel at "trawler speeds". Nimbles have been around for a long time.

The current design thrust for OB trawlers is to make them trailerable. This limits some of the design options. While you can get a longish boat, they tend to be narrow due to the trailering requirement. Someone needs to design a OB trawler boat in the 30-40' range with a beam of 10-12' with a couple of OBs in the corners. Similar in size to common IB trawlers. Sort of along the lines of the TT35 (dual OBs) but shaped more like the G37. Two moderate sized OBs could easily push a G37 at hull speed.

As for the fuel issues. IMO the OB solution is better for gas than IB because there is no enclosed engine room or bay where fumes and ignition sources can mix.

I dont understand why people think a boat with a 10' beam is not trailerable. All you need is annual permits for the state you are towing and you have to tow between sunup and sundown. Oh, and you have to put an oversize banner on the front of your truck, no guide car is needed. That does not seem too difficult to me in exchange for 18" more beam.

Donsan · Mar 22, 2018

ssobol said:
The GH37 runs on twin 54 hp motors. Probably cruises around 7 knots. Hp is Hp. Twin 100hp outboards should have no problem with a boat that size.

HP is HP but issue is converting horse power to thrust. The props on an high thrust outboard won't do the same job as the much larger props on the GH37/N37 with its attendant transmission.

Woodland Hills · Mar 22, 2018

ssobol said:
The GH37 runs on twin 54 hp motors. Probably cruises around 7 knots. Hp is Hp. Twin 100hp outboards should have no problem with a boat that size.

You could use an air cooled inverter generator (e.g. Honda) or mount a water cooled gen on the back near the motors with local water pickups that don't penetrate the hull.

You could mount a pair of 3500w Honda or Yamaha generators in a box on the stern platform and have 7kw for a/c, microwave etc and use the same fuel as the mains.

Bill & Stella · Mar 23, 2018

refugio said:
C-Dories started as...dories. You can argue that a dory is a skiff with a cabin, but what's the point?

Anyway, while the first C-Dories did have flat bottoms, all boats since the late 80s have had a shallow V. And all C-Dories have had cabins, even the little 14s.

So they've been in production for more than 35 years. They started as wood and moved to all glass. While they are predominantly cruisers, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that more fish have been caught from C-Dories than any other manufacturer discussed on this site. Maybe more than ALL of them.

And I'm further willing to assert that more C-Dories have done the Great Loop than any other manufacturer. Part of that may be because they can be towed to the Loop, just like 10 to 20 of them get towed to Lake Powell every summer. And get towed across the country to cruise to Alaska. Or Mexico.

Are they trawlers? I'm not going down that rathole.

But with a long production run, traditional styling, economical cruising, wood then fiberglass - in spirit, they're closer to pocket Grand Banks than anything else. Oh, and they're even available with single or twins (I had twin 40hp Hondas on a CD22). And they have probably the strongest owners forum of any manufacturer, ever.

A Guy named William Least Heat-Moon drove his 1995 C-Dory across the country, from the Atlantic to the Pacific. Had to drag it across rocks sometimes. Wrote a book; River Horse.

markpierce · Mar 23, 2018

I remain with a previously-posted opinion that if I don't smell diesel, I'm not on a trawler. :flowers:

ranger58sb · Mar 23, 2018

markpierce said:
I remain with a previously-posted opinion that if I don't smell diesel, I'm not on a trawler.

If you smell diesel, you've got a leak.

-Chris

cardude01 · Mar 23, 2018

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

jimisbell · Mar 23, 2018

ranger42c said:
If you smell diesel, you've got a leak.

-Chris

No, you HAD a leak. The smell stays forever and I LOVE it. Without that smell I wasted money on the boat......

South of Heaven · Mar 23, 2018

ssobol said:
And...?

Seems like the OBs are now 3 feet further away.

Ssobol: After having several outboard boats (as you know

) I really like having the clean and uncluttered transom. It's easier for entry/exit, swimming, dinghy storage etc. If my current boat had outboards I feel like they would get in the way.

ssobol · Mar 24, 2018

South of Heaven said:
Ssobol: After having several outboard boats (as you know ) I really like having the clean and uncluttered transom. It's easier for entry/exit, swimming, dinghy storage etc. If my current boat had outboards I feel like they would get in the way.

I guess it depends on the layout of the back of the boat. If the boat is wide enough you can have a swim platform on either side of the motor(s). Or you can have a swim step between the motors if they are separated. You could also have a bracket (e.g. Armstrong) that sets the motors away from the transom and can be used as a swim step. You could also store the dinghy on the bracket.

IMO the benefits of OB power outweigh the slight inconvenience of the swim step issue. But to each their own.

In my case I have a swim step on each side of the OB motor.

markpierce · Mar 24, 2018

ranger42c said:
If you smell diesel, you've got a leak.

-Chris

Probably you've never had a diesel engine. :flowers:

markpierce · Mar 24, 2018

South of Heaven said:
Ssobol: After having several outboard boats (as you know ) I really like having the clean and uncluttered transom. It's easier for entry/exit, swimming, dinghy storage etc. If my current boat had outboards I feel like they would get in the way.

Yes! How else would it be so easy for a boating pal to park his soft dinghy on the "swimming" platorm?

FF · Mar 24, 2018

"If you smell diesel, you've got a leak"

If you smell gasoline your in a bomb!

Art · Mar 24, 2018

FF said:
"If you smell diesel, you've got a leak"

If you smell gasoline your in a bomb!

If you smell gasoline you have not been careful enough on a gas powered boat.

And, yes... if ample amount of gasoline fumes get into a contained area there is for sure a very dangerous explosion potential. Gasoline as a liquid does not itself explode, gas fumes evaporating off/from that liquid can volatilely explode. That's why efficient natural-ventilation layouts and good bilge-blowers [that you often use] are top of the "safety list "on a gas boat. As well, by often checking [sniffing] confined areas where fumes could congregate if a leak happens - your nose knows. Additionally, fume detectors are available... but... don't get too comfortable with only relying on a detector, failures do occur. Your nose is the real tester to be believed!

If you smell diesel... well... that's because diesel odor lingers and its smell permeates.

On diesel powered boats you may often have the heavy smell of diesel fuel... no matter how tight things are kept nor how clean the engine runs. Then there's the odor of diesel exhaust and soot particulates from cold to running temp. But - you probably have a top-end MPG efficiency engine for boating with very little chance of fuel fire [although there are ways for fuel fires in diesel engine compartment to occur]. That said: You also do not have to be concerned about Carbon Monoxide [CO] contained in gasoline exhaust - the silent odorless killer! However - you do have the diesel engine noise that is usually more noticeable than fairly quite running gas engine sounds. Engine compartment and sole insulation can minimize that noise occurrence for both combustion engine types

Summation:

On gasoline powered boats you should never have ANY smell of the fuel aboard. If you do, check things out and take action IMMEDIATELY! Exhaust of good running engine is basically odorless from start to finish. No soot/particulates. Not quite as efficient a fuel source as diesel. [and, odorless exhaust CO must never be underestimated - it can kill]. Newer gasoline engine designs seem to be getting more efficient, a bit safer.

On diesel powered boats you can enjoy the aroma of fuel and exhaust and diesel combustion noise. Newer diesel engine designs seem to be getting more efficient and quiter.

Would be great if an even more efficient combustion engine on an improved type of fuel could be engineered/designed/created that has the best attributes of diesel and gasoline... all wrapped into one!

We boaters can always continue doing one thing we are great at... Dream-ON!!

Happy Boat-Power Daze - Art :speed boat:

ssobol · Mar 24, 2018

There is a myth that you can't get CO poisoning from diesel exhaust. Granted the amount of CO in diesel exhaust is less than from gasoline exhaust, there is still CO present. And it can still kill you (maybe just not as fast).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18643868

https://www.overdriveonline.com/in-cab-diesel-fumes-separating-carbon-monoxide-fact-from-fiction/

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