What would you do?

Much the same thinking all wise and experienced cruisers feel....If having visitors is less than a cuple days a month...then stay small....of course if you would have more visitation with a bigger boat...then that's a separate issue.

I know my boys with sig others will visit for a few days to aweek at a time at least once if not twice a year...so i went with something with a decent fwd cabin and nice second head. I refused the Europa style as the whole flying bridge deck is a separate world...to small kids, dogs and older people (me in a few years) where climbing a ladder is out of the question and it's visually and sonically separate from the rest of the boat.

Thus my choice for a double cabin...40' ..galley down. Yes ..a sundeck offers a lot more room..but tougher to single handle...and as I said the Europa model with a nice salon has the two staterooms fwd..a no go..and the isolated upper deck.

Of couse they are only my opinions...but tough to dismiss my logic

psneeld wrote:
If having visitors is less than a cuple days a month...then stay small....of course if you would have more visitation with a bigger boat...then that's a separate issue.

Click to expand...

So far we have taken two sets of*friends (adult couples) on cruises of up to about two weeks.* Just one couple at a time.* We don't allow kids on the boat, period, which is not an issue since none of the people we would take on the boat have kids at home anymore, anyway.* We do take dogs, our own and one of the couples that has cruised with us has a dog, too.

The GB36's*tri-cabin arrangement works very well for this, as each couple on the boat is separated by the main cabin.* And each "stateroom" has its own head.* A Europa-style boat in the same size would be problematical in that one couple would have to sleep on a berth made up in the main cabin and there is only one head for everyone on board.

A Europa in a larger size generally includes two or more*separate staterooms up forward plus a head and sometimes even two heads.* So there is no need to make up and put away a berth in the main cabin.

One can chase the options and compromises forever which is why we have come up with our very narrowly focused options.

I'll chime in here late. Many boats are just plain uncomfortable to spend any time on at the dock. Your GB 36 might be one. My Nordic Tug 42 was one. I would go with the bigger boats. You are not always cruising or eating at an uncomfortable dinette.

Doc wrote:
I'll chime in here late. Many boats are just plain uncomfortable to spend any time on at the dock. Your GB 36 might be one. My Nordic Tug 42 was one. I would go with the bigger boats. You are not always cruising or eating at an uncomfortable dinette.

*

Click to expand...

*My view of cruising is to stay in comfortable temperatures so much of the dining can take place outdoors...either aboard topside or a confortable place at the marina.*The other times meals can be at restaurants.*The difference in dockage, and opertaing expenses between a 36 and a larger boat can mean you can possibly eat out every night or as often as you please.



-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:03:26 PM


-- Edited by psneeld on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:04:39 PM

I'd redo the boat I have.*

Marin wrote:We don't allow kids on the boat, period, which is not an issue since none of the people we would take on the boat have kids at home anymore, anyway.* We do take dogs, our own and one of the couples that has cruised with us has a dog, too.

Click to expand...

*

What did kids ever do to you Marin? *you were a kid once yourself you know!

Just kidding, haha, no pun intended! *

*

Woodsong wrote:
What did kids ever do to you Marin?

Click to expand...

Nothing and I intend to keep it that way.* Outside of boaters blowing their horns for no meaningful*reason, kids are the most annoying things on the planet.* They complain incessently and break everything*until they reach a certain age at which point they take a big chunk of your money.* Then they*ignore you until you get old, at which point they try to screw you out of whatever you have left.

And of course these days the damn things never move away.* Or they do, fail at whatever silly endeavor they attempt, and then they move back in again, as if the hassle they gave you earlier wasn't enough.

Horrible things, kids.* I'll take a dog any day over a kid, which is why we allow dogs on our boat but not kids.


-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:40:38 PM

If I loved my boat and it fulfilled my needs, I'd have her "done over."* Question: what would I/you do for our "boat fix" during the six to eighteen months*our boat was worked on?

markpierce wrote:
Question: what would I/you do for our "boat fix" during the six to eighteen months*our boat was worked on?

Click to expand...

*Like I said earlier, we have a second boat, so we'd still be able to go boating and fishing.

Missed that Marin, but it's worth repeating anyway.

Marin wrote:Woodsong wrote:
What did kids ever do to you Marin?

Click to expand...

Nothing and I intend to keep it that way.* Outside of boaters blowing their horns for no meaningful*reason, kids are the most annoying things on the planet.* They complain incessantly and break everything*until they reach a certain age at which point they take a big chunk of your money.* Then they*ignore you until you get old, at which point they try to screw you out of whatever you have left.

And of course these days the damn things never move away.* Or they do, fail at whatever silly endeavor they attempt, and then they move back in again, as if the hassle they gave you earlier wasn't enough.

Horrible things, kids.* I'll take a dog any day over a kid, which is why we allow dogs on our boat but not kids.



-- Edited by Marin on Wednesday 2nd of November 2011 08:40:38 PM

*WOW!

I think a shrink could have a field day with this.........

I feel just the opposite, we don't take them along because you always have to take them for walks, they are really picky about the food they eat... then when you feed them something they are not accustomed to it gives them the runs.... not to mention having accidents in the middle of the night..

Of course I am talking about old farts... kids and dogs are fine by me!

HOLLYWOOD

Marin,

Now I've got a different idea for you. Fix the ergonomics's w the seating and a few other fairly small things and just keep on TRAWL"IN. Keep the money or upgrade your outboard boat to a 24' lobsterboat w center council (just as an idea) or whatever. One big downside of the big refit*** ......then you're really stuck with it. Just keep on TRAWL"IN.

I think Nomad's got it nailed. Fix the important stuff ergo, safety, comfort and just keep going. Spend the money on fuel and run the girl harder just for fun.

nomadwilly wrote:
Keep the money or upgrade your outboard boat to a 24' lobsterboat w center council (just as an idea) or whatever.

Click to expand...

*Mmmmmm... no.* The Arima is about perfect for what we do with it (salmon and halibut fishing)*and the vehicle we tow it with (Range Rover).* Replacing it with something larger and heavier*would be pointless and would require a whole lot of other expenditures just for the sake of replacing a boat we have no need to replace.* The one thing we'd consider doing is to replace the original*90hp Yamaha 2-stroke with a new 4-stroke, but that's the only change that would have any value to us.

The things we would want to do to our GB involve the kind of work that as long as we're going to do that, we might as well do this.* Cherry picking the*rework or upgrades would be counter-productive as it would make so many other projects so much easier to do.* So it's an in for a penny, in for a pound kind of thing.

If we're going to replace the generator we might as well pull the engines out at the same time and improve some plumbing and rework and repaint the engine space.* And if we're going to do that, we might as well put new engines back in (maybe).* And if we're going to replace the wood mast with a new aluminum mast, we might as well move the radar antenna mount.* And if we're going to do that, we need to remove the headliner to run the radar cable up to the helm station, so we might as well make and install new headliners. And if we do that, we might as well replace the old window blinds with new ones.* And on it goes.

While I understand why they did it at the time-- it was the only way to do it--- by today's standards installing a teak deck with 4 million screws punching holes*into an otherwise watertight fiberglass subdeck is sort of dumb.* Plus the original teak planking on our boat, while still serviceable, is just barely so.* Both my wife and I like a teak deck and don't like a fiberglass deck.**We feel*teak is a far better surface traction-wise than a fiberglass surface, wet or dry.* It looks like a boat deck is supposed to*look.* The deck is part of the reason we like a GB (or a Fleming).* The only downside of*a teak deck surface is it gets real hot in hot climates.* But*the sun never shines up here and we don't go barefoot on the deck anyway.*So if we're going to do all this other stuff, we might as well put a new main deck on and glue it down and get rid of all those holes in the subdeck.

And keeping the money is pointless too, since you can't take it with you when you leave.* My motto has always been "It's only money. They'll print more."

But you're all missing the point here.* This*discussion*wasn't supposed to be*about us.* We've pretty much made our decisions as to which ways we might go and which boats we might consider*if the opportunity even*arises at all*here.* What I'm curious about is how you guys would go if you were faced with the same choice--- upgrade your current boat to whatever standard you wanted, or spend or put the same amount toward the purchase of a different boat.* Different doesn't have to be bigger or smaller or newer or older, just different than what you have now.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Thursday 3rd of November 2011 12:31:25 AM

Marin
I think I understand where you're coming from. I' approach this from a slightly different direction which in our case could be seen as improvements on our purchase. My other half and I are "improving" our going on 3 year old acquisition of a 1984 Tradewinds 42 that's in good nick. We had to make a conscious choice of should we tip a bucket of money in to "Gemma" to make her that much better or just leave her as is and enjoy her as original. We decided that the fundamentals were good, the layout was great and we just wanted a bit of "modernisation". I know the rule of thumb is whatever your buy price is expect to pay another third. Well we're probably down the track of another 50 plus % and more coming with new electronics, solar, h/w system, flybridge full clears, winch/chaincounter etc etc with hull and topdeck repaints and other improvements to come. There are lots of $$ involved.

Whilst you've had your boat for many years in many ways you are in the same situation as we are (although you've been at it for lots longer). If you love what you have, as we do, dont unnecessarily discard the past you have with your boat, with experiences and memories, for more space, shine and a perceived better comfort. What you lose in familiarity and memories of history of family experience may be something that the extra space doesn't warrant. Apologies for getting deep and meaningful.

Marin, I know you said "don't tell me what I should do, tell me what you would do." Well sorry, but I just godda mention I think I know the boat which would be perfect for you, based on all I've read on what you have said over some period of time on the subject of preferred boat features. So just as a sort of intellectual exercise, and if money was not a huge object, what about the GB 43 EU with the Europa layout, separate guest cabin, walk-around Queen in the owner stateroom, and those cool computer-driven Zeus pod drives, which allow for amazing directional control, leisurely economical cruising, or 20kn fast cruise if in a hurry, and fixed to one of the most modern diesel engines in the business? Que...?

Marin,
I like the idea and the options.
personally I would go for the F55.
Good boat, good finnish and capable of slow cruise and fast cruise modes.
It has plenty of space and with its equipment is also easy to handle for a couple.
Nothing beats space at times and the windage is not over bearing.
There you go I am not changing anything just picking which of your 3 options I would go for.

If you bought another boat. How much would you have to sink into it to bring her up to ready.

You would have the cost of the new boat plus the cost of the refit.

So it's all the same as far as the money go's

You would just have to cover the purchase price*of the new boat and refit.

if it is not about the money. It has to be about the size.

Is bigger better?

Yeah to me and the ocean. Bigger is better.

When I am out and the weather is up. I want the biggest boat I can have.

But bigger is. Bigger slip fees. Bigger fuel bills. Bigger maintenance.

So if you don't have to many white nuckle boat rides and you like the GB36. Refit her.

SD

*

*

*

*

Marin wrote:*What I'm curious about is how you guys would go if you were faced with the same choice---

Click to expand...

******** I've been there numerous times since 1995 and have made numerous mistakes in my choice of the "next boat."

Having had different designs (sport fish, slow, fast, gas, twin diesel, single diesel, etc.) and clarity on how I use the boat and the waters I'm in, I would opt for a 48-58', twin diesel, 2 stateroom and 2 heads, (2 showers) pilot house, Europa, walk-in ER, cockpit, hard top, transome & side boarding doors, horizontal dinghy on the stern, no outside teak, (including decks) capable of mid teens cruise, at least 2 electronic combo units, nice chart table, bunk in the pilot house, propane cook top & good size microwave, rising out of cabinet plasma TV, full size refrigerator & separate freezer, island berths in both cabins (no bunks) portuguese bridge,etc.

The closest thing I've found that has most or all of these reqirements are:

1) Fleming 55...... Cons. teak on the outside & crouching or crawl in ER.

2) Offshore 58..... Cons..""**** ''****** ''******* ''** ''********* ''****** ''******* ''

3) GB 47EU..........Cons..."**** ""**** "********* " ...........Great access to ER!

*

Although our GB36 is fine for our young family for now, I would not keep it if my boating budget increased.*If we had*GB42 especially a europa model, then I would consider keeping it. Here are my reasons for wanting to upgrade:

the*room*to add stabilizers***********************************************

a proper bed for someone 6'4" (current bed is only 6'2" which is ok for weekend trips)

room for an Eams type chair (there is no comfortable place to sit inside)

more space in the engine room

SeaHorse II wrote:Marin wrote:*What I'm curious about is how you guys would go if you were faced with the same choice---

Click to expand...

******** I've been there numerous times since 1995 and have made numerous mistakes in my choice of the "next boat."

Having had different designs (sport fish, slow, fast, gas, twin diesel, single diesel, etc.) and clarity on how I use the boat and the waters I'm in, I would opt for a 48-58', twin diesel, 2 stateroom and 2 heads, (2 showers) pilot house, Europa, walk-in ER, cockpit, hard top, transome & side boarding doors, horizontal dinghy on the stern, no outside teak, (including decks) capable of mid teens cruise, at least 2 electronic combo units, nice chart table, bunk in the pilot house, propane cook top & good size microwave, rising out of cabinet plasma TV, full size refrigerator & separate freezer, island berths in both cabins (no bunks) portuguese bridge,etc.

The closest thing I've found that has most or all of these reqirements are:

1) Fleming 55...... Cons. teak on the outside & crouching or crawl in ER.

2) Offshore 58..... Cons..""**** ''****** ''******* ''** ''********* ''****** ''******* ''

3) GB 47EU..........Cons..."**** ""**** "********* " ...........Great access to ER!

*

*He's baaaack! :clap:

Peter B wrote:
So just as a sort of intellectual exercise, and if money was not a huge object, what about the GB 43 EU with the Europa layout, separate guest cabin, walk-around Queen in the owner stateroom, and those cool computer-driven Zeus pod drives

Click to expand...

I'm not aware of a GB43.* The newish GB41 is the boat with the Zeus drives, the GB47 (used to be called the GB44) is the larger boat with conventional drive. Both are very close to $1 million new and they haven't been around long enough to be very much under that used.* Even if we had the money we wouldn't buy a boat that expensive to purchase and operate.* We've got a lot of other things besides boating to do with whatever funds we might have available.

Quote - "Because we also don't want to buy another owner's (or multiple owners') problems "

Marin et-all; this is the same dilema that the admiral and I faced a few years back when we made the decision to "re-fit" Penta. The original interior layout did not work over time and there were a dozen or more small "concerns".
We made the decision to re-fit Penta and had her hauled to the back yard right outside my shop. Mind you, due to several personal "issues" the project has taken far longer than we had planned but now we have a boat that we know every inch of, inside and out and can cruise with, knowing there is nothing in her that we have not looked at and serviced/up-graded and that we could tackle if a failure were to occur. Once Penta was stripped down and her "bowels" exposed all manner of previously unknown small issues were evident.
Looking at the market today I think that if we had to make the decision all over again, it would come out the same because we have a boat we "know" and like Marin, we are not starting all over again dealing with P/O issues that are bound to pop up with a new (to you) vessel.
If you decide on the re-fit, use Philbrooks here in Sidney and then I will have something else to watch on my daily
patrol" of the marinas and yards I think the wife has finally figured out why it takes me so long to buy a quart of milk
Here you go Marin, another crusty old farts opinion
Cheers
John

Penta wrote:

If you decide on the re-fit, use Philbrooks here in Sidney...

Click to expand...

*We have heard a lot of really good things about Philbrooks.* While we have not talked to them about this potential project--- simply because we don't want to jumping the gun and raise anyone's hopes about potential work that may not materialize---* Philbrooks is definitely one of the yards we would visit and talk to should this project (or any lesser project that requred a competent yard to accomplish) become a reality.

Marin wrote:

What I'm curious about is how you guys would go if you were faced with the same choice---
_______________________________________________________



Marin - It's just so simple... This is exactly*what I would do!



Wash*the GB and... SELL IT!
-***** Get a really good condition 48' Tollycraft Tri Cabin with a super strong, low hour, fully up-graded*drive train already*in her
-***** Have*my new Tolly professionally shined up really, really good


-***** Get interior and exterior*creature comfort features as well as*all*navigation equip renewed


-***** Then wife and I would cruise on in safety and pleasure for how many years we like!

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It really is just so simple - - > Tollycraft is not for the faint of heart, but rather, for the heart of boating!*

In your area plenty of 48' Tolly come up for sale!* They are built to last and provide great seaworthiness...

PS: Re some of your past posts: Did a kid bite you or something??* Draw any blood??? LOL

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*

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Art wrote:
-***** Get a really good condition 48' Tollycraft Tri Cabin with a super strong, low hour, fully up-graded*drive train already*in her

PS: Re some of your past posts: Did a kid bite you or something??* Draw any blood??? LOL

Click to expand...

I think Tollycrafts are very well made boats but none of their models appeal to us aesthetically.* So we wouldn't swap a GB for a Tollycraft but I an understand why Tollycraft lovers would.

No, a kid has never bitten me.* I just find them all to be a pain in the a*s and not worth wasting time on.* My time on. Their parents must feel differently, I guess, although it baffles me as to why since they get nothing but grief from the little bastards.

Marin, *I can't believe you do'nt think the Tollys are very good looking boats. Actually I think that may be their #1 best feature. I've never seen a so so looking Tolly. They actually made a trawler Tolly about 37' long w a pilothouse well fwd w great visibility. Same planing hull though. If they had made a hull w some rocker and curved sides I'd even go for it. Boats that do'nt go over 20 knots should'nt have straight bottoms and sides w constant cross sections aft. Atkin knows that. I do'nt know of any of his boats without an aft section that tucks in some. But Tollys are lookers in my book.

nomadwilly wrote:
Marin, *I can't believe you do'nt think the Tollys are very good looking boats.

Click to expand...

Eric--- Everyone's sense of aesthetics is different. But Tollycrafts have the same basic RV look to me*as most other similar "cabin cruisers."* Very few production boats from the 70s on up through today are very good looking in my opinion.*

Speaking strictly for what I think comprises a good-looking boat, I lump things like Tollys, the bigger Bayliners, Hatteras cruisers,*Chris Crafts (not the vintage ones), Uniflites, Carvers,*etc. etc, etc, into what I*refer to in my mind as RV boats.* Boxy, slab-sided, lots of straight or nearly straight*lines, and so on.* They're like most cars today-- very little to differentiate one from the other and so I pay little attention to them.* In the case of the boats like the ones listed above, I generally*have to read the builder's plate*them to tell which is which.

This has NOTHING to do with the quality, hydrodynamics, performance, efficiency,*use of interior space, functionality, etc. of Tollycrafts.* As I have said before to newbies looking for boat-buying advice, for someone looking for*a cruiser of this type, Tollycrafts are among the best choices out there.

I just don't care for the look of them.

Marin wrote:Peter B wrote:
So just as a sort of intellectual exercise, and if money was not a huge object, what about the GB 43 EU with the Europa layout, separate guest cabin, walk-around Queen in the owner stateroom, and those cool computer-driven Zeus pod drives

Click to expand...

I'm not aware of a GB43.* The newish GB41 is the boat with the Zeus drives, the GB47 (used to be called the GB44) is the larger boat with conventional drive. Both are very close to $1 million new and they haven't been around long enough to be very much under that used.* Even if we had the money we wouldn't buy a boat that expensive to purchase and operate.* We've got a lot of other things besides boating to do with whatever funds we might have available.

*Yeah, sorry about that.* For some reason over here in Oz they refer to it as the 43, but I guess it depends how you measure it, but yes...it's this one,* http://www.boatpoint.com.au/news/2011/new-grand-banks-europa-41-24754

And although there are few going second hand yet...that won't pertain for long, and then....?

*

Marin,

I would fix up the 36 because the other two choices are too large.

What I would really perfer to do is sell the 36 and buy a*newer 42 Europa, with a single engine!

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1998/Grand-Banks-Europa-2282188/Tampa/FL/United-States

This is the boat I would buy.* Check it out-- You don't like it?

JohnP

*


-- Edited by JohnP on Friday 4th of November 2011 05:05:03 AM