How close is too close?

Close high speed passes happen frequently here. My favorite day cruise is up a narrow channel called Some Sound. The entrance channel to the sound is about 100 yards wide for a half mile. Two years ago I was in the channel as the lead boat in a parade of schooners when an idiot in a 45-50 foot cruiser passed close by (<50') at 20+ knots. His wake was a real issue for my FD hull. What made it worse was that I couldn't turn into the wake because there was another 47' boat right behind him doing 25+ knots. The second wake was worse since it overlapped the first and I had to deal with both. My only satisfaction was that the second boat was an aluminum cruiser with an orange stripe on the hull and a flashing blue light. They caught up with the guy shortly after leaving the channel.

koliver said:

Securité, Securité, Securité
All vessels in Colvos Passage,
This is the MV "Delicate"
Please be advised the Motor Vessel "Inconsiderate" is presently travelling Northbound at excessive wave making speed and passing or overtaking too close to other mariners. This vessel does not respond to VHF calls or other proper signals. Take adequate precautions.
Delicate out.

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I may have to print that out as a reminder to myself to use .... problem is how many of those who need to hear that message as a subliminal suggestion actually have a radio on?

ghost said:

Stop running a path on the perfect course. Get off to the side and get out of the traffic. Nothing you can do about the d-bags, though occasionally you will come across one at a destination. Savor the opportunities life hands you with creativity.

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This probably the best course of action for myself.

There are so many variables. First, where are you in the channel. I imagine you're toward the starboard side but we see so many who decide to take their half out of the middle. They don't realize that they cut the passing area for other boats in half. Then there is "what speed are you talking about when you say "fast?"' In a boat capable of 40 knots, 35 knots may be the least bothersome speed and yet not realizing that, boats being passed will often get furious at that speed. The worst passes are boats that do so just below plane. They either slowed down or sped up to get to that speed and are ignorant of the wake of their boat at various speeds. We have a boat that cruises at 20 knots and that is it's speed of least wake. However, often the boat being overtaken gets upset just at that speed without realizing it's the speed of least wake and we carefully observe that we gave them virtually no wake. We know our wake well and do all we can to make it the least bothersome. Then there are the boats that can only go 10-12 knots and really have no decent speed to pass a 7 knot boat so about all they can do is go as wide as possible and make the boat being overtaken aware. Most of those boats make very large wakes. We experience their wakes when we pass them. Not owning that type boat, I just observe and it's the combination I lack the answer for How does a 10 knot boat pass a 7 knot? It appears just as far apart as possible, but often that still isn't enough.

Right now we're in 6' seas with 20 knot winds and gusts to 35 knots so the size of our wake isn't an issue. Not the most pleasant crossing we've experienced.

With so many butt-heads out there perhaps we’re in the wrong hobby. I could sell the boat and just play w cars. But yesterday I was passed on the freeway by a red Cadillac. I was in the right lane going about 60 and he was on the shoulder going over 100 I’m sure. Crazy crazy and it was by an on-ramp w a sectional barrier necking the shoulder down to less than a cars width. Really crazy.

To put this into perspective think of a fast 55’ sport fish passing my Willard at full speed w less than a foot between the boats.

Extreme. WAY too much extreme these days. From tricks on a skateboard to just shooting people. What could cause this? I suspect the internet as moving to other countries wouldn’t give one much buffer.

In the Swinomish Channel I swing toward the beach and then most of a U turn back and point my bow to pass few feet aft of the waker’s stern and take his wake on the nose. I take most wake waves at about 25 degrees difference. Bigger wakes closser (w more time tewwn crests) closser to right angles and smaller wakes closser to parallel.

Keep in mind that this piece of water is between 3/4 to 1 nm wide throughout its length. I guess the thing that bothers me, is with that much room why do folks feel they need to pass withing a few boat lengths of me? They could easier alter course to give me 100m and it would mean only a couple degrees of course change.

Anyway, I appreciate the input. BandB, I hope the weather calms down for you.

dhays said:

This probably the best course of action for myself.

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I did essentially that when flying my ultralights. The airplane guys almost always flew at even number altitudes like 4000’ or 2500’. I’d fly at 2750’ or 4250’. Probably reduced my mid-air collision potential many times over.

I now travel down the middle of the channel and move over for meeting or overtaking situations. If a boat is passing with a large wake and not going to call, I let them ride the edge of the channel. As they prepare to pass, I throttle back and turn the boat so that the stern faces the wake and goes underneath me.

I'm done being considerate to the inconsiderate. I'm under no more obligation to make there pass easy than they are to pass me without badly waking me.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I now travel down the middle of the channel and move over for meeting or overtaking situations. If a boat is passing with a large wake and not going to call, I let them ride the edge of the channel. As they prepare to pass, I throttle back and turn the boat so that the stern faces the wake and goes underneath me.

I'm done being considerate to the inconsiderate. I'm under no more obligation to make there pass easy than they are to pass me without badly waking me.

Ted

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yep, experience and boat handling skills take advantaged of normally bad situations.

High Wire said:

Last year one of those guys gave me the answer. He ran up behind my strb quarter and dropped off plane like he was going to do a "slow pass" but without radio contact. Ok so I cut my throttle accordingly. Just as I pulled back, he floors it and passes digging a huge wake accelerating past me. I gave him a WTF gesture. He started yelling at me then he got on CH 16 and said "If your boat can't handle my wake, that's your problem!"

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yep, one of the vast majority of clueless operators

so simple and yet they never get it.....

Staying anchored on weekends and traveling on work days solves much of the idiot hassles.

Wakes and bad boaters are just part of the environment. Situational awareness is key. It is necessary to maintain heightened awareness (easy to forget to diligently observe sternward) so one can prepare. Shutting down the throttle and turning into the wake usually rids the worst effects of a sizable wake.

Absolutely Right Mark,

A bad wake experience usually is the result of one almost dozing at the helm, turning around to see a very large boat doubble your size and speed right on your stern.
One of the reasons I like my sedan cabin is that it has excellent visability 360 degrees. One needs to see what one needs to avoid. See and avoid.

in S. Florida, you need to be turned around every minute or so.....

There aren't many narrow channels around here, so getting waked is very rare in the open water.

I can only remember having to deal with a significant wake once. It was from a submarine, and it was certainly significant.

Nomad Willy said:

Absolutely Right Mark,

A bad wake experience usually is the result of one almost dozing at the helm, turning around to see a very large boat doubble your size and speed right on your stern.
One of the reasons I like my sedan cabin is that it has excellent visability 360 degrees. One needs to see what one needs to avoid. See and avoid.

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Here where I boat we have a narrow channel out to Galveston Bay. Unfortunately the Billy Bobs don't understand channels much less anything else on the water, it's "get in 'er and go!". I've came close to running aground a few times in order to avoid being hit.

O C Diver said:

I now travel down the middle of the channel and move over for meeting or overtaking situations. If a boat is passing with a large wake and not going to call, I let them ride the edge of the channel. As they prepare to pass, I throttle back and turn the boat so that the stern faces the wake and goes underneath me.

I'm done being considerate to the inconsiderate. I'm under no more obligation to make there pass easy than they are to pass me without badly waking me.

Ted

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But then you're also being done with encouraging others to be considerate, because by choosing to travel down the middle of the channel you're encouraging others to wake you. Much of the ICW is too narrow to comfortably pass with only half the channel available. The passing boat isn't going to ride the edge to an extent that puts them at risk.

I understand your decision but it would seem to me that does increase your probability of being waked excessively.

BUT....probably like me he moves over for approaching traffic well in advance and because ALL passing traffic is supposed to contact you in some form...

So if that doesnt hapoen, hogging the center in my mind is appropriate for safety and wake avoidance.

Even if rule 9 says stay to the far right as is safe and practical, I can argue that until a safe pass is arranged, hogging the middle is fair game considering few follow any rules or courtesies except by accident.

psneeld said:

BUT....probably like me he moves over for approaching traffic well in advance and because ALL passing traffic is supposed to contact you in some form...

So if that doesnt hapoen, hogging the center in my mind is appropriate for safety and wake avoidance.

Even if rule 9 says stay to the far right as is safe and practical, I can argue that until a safe pass is arranged, hogging the middle is fair game considering few follow any rules or courtesies except by accident.

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We attempt to follow them but with the majority of boats not responding and others traveling in the middle, to the left or wherever else, it does get hard. We still attempt to wake as little as possible within reason.

Of course, we attempt to do the majority of our cruising outside.

JimW said:

when alcohol and bikinis are on board, just saying.

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Man. I just gotta get out of the Pacific Northwest more often!

BandB said:

We attempt to follow them but with the majority of boats not responding and others traveling in the middle, to the left or wherever else, it does get hard. We still attempt to wake as little as possible within reason.

Of course, we attempt to do the majority of our cruising outside.

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I only travel the middle when if a big waker is coming, I dont have enough water outside the channel to surf the wake. If deep, I hang to the right third.

But like I said, if the contact me or use a whistle signal like required, I will provide some accomodation.

psneeld said:

BUT....probably like me he moves over for approaching traffic well in advance and because ALL passing traffic is supposed to contact you in some form...

So if that doesnt hapoen, hogging the center in my mind is appropriate for safety and wake avoidance.

Even if rule 9 says stay to the far right as is safe and practical, I can argue that until a safe pass is arranged, hogging the middle is fair game considering few follow any rules or courtesies except by accident.

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Supposed to contact? With one hand, I could lose three fingers and still count the times.

When channels are very narrow , one reluctantly leaves the center.

psneeld said:

I only travel the middle when if a big waker is coming, I dont have enough water outside the channel to surf the wake. If deep, I hang to the right third.

But like I said, if the contact me or use a whistle signal like required, I will provide some accomodation.

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While not common on the ICW, one thing to keep in mind is some of the larger deep draft boats do not handle well in the shallow water of the ICW. I've seen them go the middle simply because they're not comfortable anywhere else. Watch the boat show boats sometime and a few of the larger boats tracking very poorly.

koliver said:

Securité, Securité, Securité
All vessels in Colvos Passage,
This is the MV "Delicate"
Please be advised the Motor Vessel "Inconsiderate" is presently travelling Northbound at excessive wave making speed and passing or overtaking too close to other mariners. This vessel does not respond to VHF calls or other proper signals. Take adequate precautions.
Delicate out.

Click to expand...

That radio call will obviously get the attention of all boater, perhaps the USCG and embarrass the tar out of the owner and or captain, as if they care.

BandB said:

While not common on the ICW, one thing to keep in mind is some of the larger deep draft boats do not handle well in the shallow water of the ICW. I've seen them go the middle simply because they're not comfortable anywhere else. Watch the boat show boats sometime and a few of the larger boats tracking very poorly.

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yes, a very few...

most are just not good drivers...

they are nervous and wont even push the edge when they clearly can.

OldDan1943 said:

That radio call will obviously get the attention of all boater, perhaps the USCG and embarrass the tar out of the owner and or captain, as if they care.

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It actually gets the attention of very few because most arent listening or paying attention, the USCG willl only respond if something serious is going on, and to most its directed at are too arrogant to care.

There is one blind curve up the New River in FL. It was my "good" fortune to be on the other side of the blind curve with the Jungle Queen coming around, both of us in the "blind". I always called them on VHF channel 16. I had a 46ft trawler, traveling slow. They acknowledge me and he slowed down, we both were very cautious for the safe pass. For that, I thanked them, they resumed speed after the passage. We both lived happily ever after. I think this occurred 3 or 4 times.

Green water into the cockpit from a close passing 50ft cruiser was a factor in leaving Sydney Harbour. Broken Bay/Hawkesbury boaters are generally much more considerate.

OldDan1943 said:

There is one blind curve up the New River in FL. It was my "good" fortune to be on the other side of the blind curve with the Jungle Queen coming around, both of us in the "blind". I always called them on VHF channel 16. I had a 46ft trawler, traveling slow. They acknowledge me and he slowed down, we both were very cautious for the safe pass. For that, I thanked them, they resumed speed after the passage. We both lived happily ever after. I think this occurred 3 or 4 times.

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For as long as I know, the New River Ft Lauderdale traffic is on ch 9.

Unfortunately some of the unprofessional professional captains only use local points instead of markers or relation to charted features when querying them on Ch 9

I like 7 knots but I can make a wake too.

If a large boat approaches closely I tab up and give her hell.. They send me a 7' wake but my 5' wake rattles their cages @ 20 knots..

I've dealt with them in all types of boats and if legal i'd f-em with a rusty rake.