Has anyone bought a bit of a fixer upper??? 46’ Jefferson

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Steve,

I have the exact same boat. Mine needed work primarily from just sitting and never being used. You will know your boat inside and out after working on it and then cruising. I saw where you said you were thinking about skipping the survey. I would suggest you still do a survey, which will likely uncover items that you haven't found yet. Also, you will likely need a survey for insurance purposes, so might as well spend the money now and potentially find deal killing (or pricing adjusting) issues.

If you do go forward, feel free to reach out if there is something that I may be able to help with. I'm not an expert, but I'm glad to share what I have learned.

Chris
 
Excellent post by Westiculo! I strongly suggest you read it a couple times and take it to heart.

- Get a real survey done by a profession, including a haul out.
- Unless you are a diesel mechanic yourself, get a mechanical survey done by someone experienced in the specific type of engine in that boat.
- Insure it (at least liability insurance)

The costs of the survey’s and haulout are not insignificant, but if you aren’t sure you can afford them, I guarantee you can’t afford to buy a project boat.
 
For my old boat (76) and having near zero experience working on boats, it's been about 80% learning curve. I started in the engine room and am working my way out. Propulsion and electrical, followed by plumbing, curing window leaks, canvas, etc. etc.

I made an interesting discovery - I like the work, sense of tangible accomplishment. Fortunate that I live 1 mile from the boat.

I think with a boat the old saw of "everything takes twice as long and costs twice as much as first planned" is an understatement. A boat is definitionally a depreciating "asset." You gotta love it.
 
I had not heard about having the trawler's oil tested, not sure how one would arrange for that but it is good to know. Don't know what to tell you about our '85 Carver 3227, Steve, except we feel really fortunate to have found her for 14k. A steal. She is 36 feet loa, and we live aboard her in Maine on freshwater six months of the year. Her engines run like a top, and we added four solar panels, so we don't even need shore power, which is good, because we don't have any at our slip! We don't have AC in Maine, it is cool enough, I suppose.

We are thinking it is time to go diesel and do some serious year round cruising, such as the Great Loop, or migrating along the east coast with the weather. A trawler may be our huckleberry, or who knows, maybe even a larger Carver with twin Diesels to make the fuel expense feasible. So many choices!
 
Stacey said:
I had not heard about having the trawler's oil tested, not sure how one would arrange for that but it is good to know. Don't know what to tell you about our '85 Carver 3227, Steve, except we feel really fortunate to have found her for 14k. A steal. She is 36 feet loa, and we live aboard her in Maine on freshwater six months of the year. Her engines run like a top, and we added four solar panels, so we don't even need shore power, which is good, because we don't have any at our slip! We don't have AC in Maine, it is cool enough, I suppose.

We are thinking it is time to go diesel and do some serious year round cruising, such as the Great Loop, or migrating along the east coast with the weather. A trawler may be our huckleberry, or who knows, maybe even a larger Carver with twin Diesels to make the fuel expense feasible. So many choices!
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Freshwater... where?? You pull her for the other six months?
 
Art said:
Freshwater... where?? You pull her for the other six months?
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She's on Sebago lake in Maine. Pretty cold for half the year, so the poor girl is up on blocks. Soon though!
 
Stacey said:
She's on Sebago lake in Maine. Pretty cold for half the year, so the poor girl is up on blocks. Soon though!
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I was in Camden/Rockport/Rockland... late 69 through mid 70's. Still visit occasionally.
 
Spoke to the owner of the boat today. Super nice guy. He owns the boat yard it’s in right now. He said they completely fixed the blisters in the hull, about $35k worth along with fixing anything else the boat needed. He had the Boat surveyed a year and a half ago and he sent it to me. The survey came back with a mostly clean bill of health along with a pretty bogus value of $125k. It said the over all condition was above average. Again, this was a year and a half ago.

The owner said he’d have no reservations about taking it from TX to FL right now.

Just giving you guys an update, don’t worry I’m going to see for myself the actual condition. I think I’m going to fly down there on Wednesday to take a look and take it for a sea trial.

One thing that we just find out, the hurricane ripped off the radar arch along with the enclosure. He replaced it with a fixed bimini (or whatever it’s called). I don’t like that I can’t mount a radar and it ruins the profile of the boat. At the same time, it’s a nice top and the added visibility would be nice.

Here’s the only current pic I have. I have more coming tomorrow.
 

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Steve91T said:
Hello all! Last summer we bought a 31’ Mainship and have loved it more than we ever thought we would. Many of you said it was a great starter Boat and we’d eventually wanted larger. We thought that was ridiculous. Well...the Mainship is going up for sale soon because we are looking for a bigger boat. Lol

My wife and I have always wanted a bit of a fixer upper. Our first house was a 1980 that we totally renovated. Now we are in another house that’s a 1988 and are also renovating it as well. We do everything ourselves (except removing popcorn ceilings....awful job). Anyway, we see a lot of larger older travelers that are really just a little neglected and ugly. It would be fun to renovate one. But of course we know if we aren’t careful, the boat could end up costing much more money than we ever planned. So we are looking for something that’s mechanically sound, just need some TLC.

We have a 4 year old little girl and a little boy who will be here in a few weeks. We really want 3 staterooms. Not only so the kids could have their own rooms in case little man sleeps at different times than our daughter, but also so friends could stay with us and the kids could sleep in the V Birth bunks. We plan on keeping this next boat for a very long time.

This brings us to “Therapy”. She’s a 1988 Jefferson 46’. We love everything about the lay out. I love that it has two helms, a large fly and back deck, and lots of room inside. Now, this particular boat has some rather outdated pics and info. A hurricane destroyed the isenglass and blew away most of the cussions on the fly. Bimini is still there. The inside is as pictured except it’s a mess...so dirty. Also it comes with no electronics.

I have videos of the mains firing up with no smoke and the generator running. It’s currently in the water and the owner is using it. Being mechanically inclined, I’d check it out myself. I’d also send oil and gearbox samples out to be analyzed. All systems work except for an AC, has an error code. I’d have the owner have it serviced and make sure it’s working.

Our plan would be to update the interior, remove the built in benches on the fly and use patio furnature and because there’s a helm in the saloon, we’d leave the isenglass off and just keep the bimini for shade.

He is asking $60k. These boats go for $80-100 in nice shape.

We plan on flying from Charlotte to the Boat and moving it to the keys hopefully by the winter. After we get tired of the keys, we want to go to the Bahamas and eventually end up in Southport NC.

Our trips would be about 3-4 days at a time, once or twice a month leaving the boat at transient slips along the way. I think we’d get to New Orleans and leave it there for a bit, taking a break from moving it and focus on getting some work done while enjoying a cool city. Then when we are ready, we’d continue until we want a break again.

I’d love to hear some experiences with anyone who has bought a boat that needed TLC. And as always, and and all opinions are welcome!

Thanks guys.
Steve

Here’s the link:

1988 Jefferson undefined, Rockport Texas - boats.com
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I bought a 42'sailboat for 69K because I loved the design. Spent 3.5 years working on it costing 55k + all my time and travel - sold it for 89k losing 35k -only sailed twice for fun!~ Boat was actually very worn out. In this offer 42K . I rented a dock once from a man with a Jefferson----- it broke down all the time!
 
geoleo said:
I bought a 42'sailboat for 69K because I loved the design. Spent 3.5 years working on it costing 55k + all my time and travel - sold it for 89k losing 35k -only sailed twice for fun!~ Boat was actually very worn out. In this offer 42K . I rented a dock once from a man with a Jefferson----- it broke down all the time!
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AHHHH HHA a hurricane boaty!!! Plus all so neglected they wont lift a finger to even straighten the trash-----RUN and LEAP AWAY! Up Up and AWAY!!!!!!
 
Steve: Based on the info and pictures, if it were me, I’d go to the next step. With the blister job and a willing seller, you could have a pretty sweet deal. Keep us posted.
 
Good luck with the boat. You may be able to add an Atlantic Towers radar arch over/around the fixed top. I put one on a previous boat. It was reasonably priced and very nice quality. No association with AT, just a happy customer.
 
Steve91T said:
Spoke to the owner of the boat today. Super nice guy. He owns the boat yard it’s in right now. He said they completely fixed the blisters in the hull, about $35k worth along with fixing anything else the boat needed. He had the Boat surveyed a year and a half ago and he sent it to me. The survey came back with a mostly clean bill of health along with a pretty bogus value of $125k. It said the over all condition was above average. Again, this was a year and a half ago.

The owner said he’d have no reservations about taking it from TX to FL right now.

Just giving you guys an update, don’t worry I’m going to see for myself the actual condition. I think I’m going to fly down there on Wednesday to take a look and take it for a sea trial.

One thing that we just find out, the hurricane ripped off the radar arch along with the enclosure. He replaced it with a fixed bimini (or whatever it’s called). I don’t like that I can’t mount a radar and it ruins the profile of the boat. At the same time, it’s a nice top and the added visibility would be nice.

Here’s the only current pic I have. I have more coming tomorrow.
Click to expand...


First of all, I know surveyors who will gladly write a survey and never get within several hundred miles of the boat. Take any owners survey with a grain of salt.

Also, the 35k in blister repairs, again, a grain of salt. He owns the yard and wants the boat sold. No way is he going to put half the sales value in repairs.
 
you vant be certain an engine will perform perfectly.

I have been chasing an air leak for 3 months, maybe 2 years, and at least 1000 miles.

I have had to emergency anchor 15 times.

Unless I want to stpp my trip and completely redo my fuel system, there are no guarantees.

It can happent to an old engine, a new engine, a perfectly surveyed engine, etc....

Thinking a boat may never break down in the next 15 minutes is a fools errand ...it can happen to anyone.....be prepared.
 
In looking at the photos, it doesn’t look so bad. I would certainly be up for a trip to look at it if I was in the market for a boat, but I like working on boats so not too much scares me about working on one. Before you pay for a survey, spend a day crawling around the boat and see what there is. Take a phenolic hammer with you to sound out the decks and stringers. I would want to have the boat plugged into a dock with the new GFIs installed and verify that the electrical system will work because you will most likely run into some docks that have updated to the new electrical code and installed the GFIs. This can be a time intensive problem to correct if the electrical system is not wired properly. Open every hatch, door and access panel and look for evidence of leaks. BTW take a couple of good lights with you. Check out as much as you can before you make an offer. After we did our survey, I asked for 4 major items to be corrected and the seller agreed. By having the survey, I profited several thousand dollars over the cost of the survey. Good luck, hope it works out however you want it to.
 
Maybe inquire how the yard owner came to own the boat.
Consider keeping the fixed bimini,when you`re replacing canvas, cleaning off mould and bird stuff, you might wish you had.
You know it went through a hurricane,be aware the damage may extend well beyond the bimini.
The yard may have "completely fixed the blisters",but that`s those that were there. That`s no assurance of no more later. In fact depending what was done, unless full peel, dryout, and fresh epoxy or vinylester refinish, it`s more likely there will be.
End of negatives, with apologies. Do not run away as suggested above. Study the anticipated pics,and I hope, go and inspect. Hope it turns out to be a great boat. Negotiate hard, it`s occupying a space they could be renting out.
 
If the boat really seems repairable. replenish-able... Cut the price in half... see if he blinks. Make sure you have a top $$$ line you will not exceed. Hold to it. He'll sell ... may take some time and horse trading! Best Luck!!!
 
I would only buy a fixer upper. Make her your own!
 
Just curious what you guys see that’s making you think it’s only a $30k Boat?
 
I am not of that opinion about 30K price. You need to look it over and make an offer that works for you. It may be 30 or it may be the 60 they are asking. Or it may be some figure in between. I would make a reasonable offer after looking the boat over and then get a survey and take the recommended repairs into account and make a new offer. But in order to do that you have to make the original offer with the proper contingencies.
 
Steve91T said:
Just curious what you guys see that’s making you think it’s only a $30k Boat?
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Run the comps on what the same model non fixer upper is selling for. Disregard what sellers are asking, what they actually sell for is what counts.

Take into account what needs to be done to bring this boat up to Standards. Also, the engines are very high time for 3208’s. While they may go a long time more, you don’t know that. Any engine work will be costly.

I would be suspect of the blister job personally. Remember, that was done to sell the boat.

Finally, he’s having a hard time selling that boat. There is a reason why.
 
It was said earlier:if you can't afford the two surveys, you can't afford to fix her up anyway, so why bother?
 
clynn said:
Steve,

I have the exact same boat. Mine needed work primarily from just sitting and never being used. You will know your boat inside and out after working on it and then cruising. I saw where you said you were thinking about skipping the survey. I would suggest you still do a survey, which will likely uncover items that you haven't found yet. Also, you will likely need a survey for insurance purposes, so might as well spend the money now and potentially find deal killing (or pricing adjusting) issues.

If you do go forward, feel free to reach out if there is something that I may be able to help with. I'm not an expert, but I'm glad to share what I have learned.

Chris
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM!
 
Thank you. I was going to look at her this weekend. Now I can do something else.
 
I gave $20K for my boat. I knew the previous owner and he had not been able to keep it up for quite awhile. I began with getting it running so I could use it and keep my enthusiasm high. I'm going through all systems to repair and upgrade (and ALL systems have needed work), LOL. So far I've spent about $12k and will be hitting it with another $4k this year but am getting started on cosmetics so the Ol' Girl will be starting to LOOK like we love her soon. Is it worth it? Well I like fixing on things so yes, especially when we go out on her and friends tell us how they love her too.

Kevin
 
Seeing as every boat my grow-up family had and then my own family has-had/now-has/may-get were not new... You could say every boat was/is/will-be some level of a fixer-upper. Difference between some fixers a compared to other fixers rests in the "bones" of the boat [in other words orig manufacturer's build quality] as well as just how bad are conditions and what portions of boat need fixen!


If engine need rebuilding or replacing that can get expensive and/or personally time consuming for DIYers. If engines as well as trany an other drive line portions need restoration/replacement then $$$$ amounts soar! If all the boat needs is a really good clean up, new paint, some equipment replaced/upgraded then that is not too bad of a fix-it-up procedure.


Bottom line is to ascertain the general $$ value of similar boat that is in good to very good condition currently on the market. Take the fixer you are looking at and subtract the costs of fixen it from the good condition similar boat. AND, FOR GOOD MEASURE WHEN YOU HAVE CALCED THE REDUCED $$ VALUE OF THE FIXER... TAKE ANOTHER 20 to 25% OFF THAT PRICE... YOU WILL LIKELY BE NEAR TRUE VALUE OF THE FIXER.


If owner of the boat does not think your valuation of the boat is correct - move on until you locate the correct fixer at the correct price.


Remember... a pleasure boat is generally not a money making proposition. It is fun at a financial expense.


Also, don't fall in love with any boat before you have purchased it [at the right price] and spent at least a few weeks with it - too make sure you want to start throwing $$ and time into it. Love can make our eyes blind to existing faults that need to be sussed out before ca$h is laid on the table!


Happy Boat-Traden Daze - Art :speed boat:
 
I have now bookmarked your documentation...:) Nicely done. It's great when owners document and share their repair experiences. Thank you!
 
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