Has anyone bought a bit of a fixer upper??? 46’ Jefferson

Hello all! Last summer we bought a 31’ Mainship and have loved it more than we ever thought we would. Many of you said it was a great starter Boat and we’d eventually wanted larger. We thought that was ridiculous. Well...the Mainship is going up for sale soon because we are looking for a bigger boat. Lol

My wife and I have always wanted a bit of a fixer upper. Our first house was a 1980 that we totally renovated. Now we are in another house that’s a 1988 and are also renovating it as well. We do everything ourselves (except removing popcorn ceilings....awful job). Anyway, we see a lot of larger older travelers that are really just a little neglected and ugly. It would be fun to renovate one. But of course we know if we aren’t careful, the boat could end up costing much more money than we ever planned. So we are looking for something that’s mechanically sound, just need some TLC.

We have a 4 year old little girl and a little boy who will be here in a few weeks. We really want 3 staterooms. Not only so the kids could have their own rooms in case little man sleeps at different times than our daughter, but also so friends could stay with us and the kids could sleep in the V Birth bunks. We plan on keeping this next boat for a very long time.

This brings us to “Therapy”. She’s a 1988 Jefferson 46’. We love everything about the lay out. I love that it has two helms, a large fly and back deck, and lots of room inside. Now, this particular boat has some rather outdated pics and info. A hurricane destroyed the isenglass and blew away most of the cussions on the fly. Bimini is still there. The inside is as pictured except it’s a mess...so dirty. Also it comes with no electronics.

I have videos of the mains firing up with no smoke and the generator running. It’s currently in the water and the owner is using it. Being mechanically inclined, I’d check it out myself. I’d also send oil and gearbox samples out to be analyzed. All systems work except for an AC, has an error code. I’d have the owner have it serviced and make sure it’s working.

Our plan would be to update the interior, remove the built in benches on the fly and use patio furnature and because there’s a helm in the saloon, we’d leave the isenglass off and just keep the bimini for shade.

He is asking $60k. These boats go for $80-100 in nice shape.

We plan on flying from Charlotte to the Boat and moving it to the keys hopefully by the winter. After we get tired of the keys, we want to go to the Bahamas and eventually end up in Southport NC.

Our trips would be about 3-4 days at a time, once or twice a month leaving the boat at transient slips along the way. I think we’d get to New Orleans and leave it there for a bit, taking a break from moving it and focus on getting some work done while enjoying a cool city. Then when we are ready, we’d continue until we want a break again.

I’d love to hear some experiences with anyone who has bought a boat that needed TLC. And as always, and and all opinions are welcome!

Thanks guys.
Steve

Here’s the link:

http://www.boats.com/power-boats/1988-jefferson-6092066/

I love working on boats. We currently have a 41’ President. The list of things we have done to it is extremely long. We are currently working on the hull in preparation for a 2 part poly paint job this spring. Have all the old portholes out and am grinding out the damaged areas in the glass. The PO was a charter member of the coalition of the docking impaired. Nothing wrong with buying a fixer upper. Just buy at the right price and then be willing to spend at least twice as much as you think it will possibly cost to finish it. And it will take at least twice as long as you estimate to finish it. I enjoy doing most of the work, the sanding sucks but most of the rest is fun and gives me something to do. Check stringers, etc very thoroughly along with the other major structural items. Glad you had a good experience with the Mainship you bought last year.

Why not buy the one in Baltimore for $27,500 if you want a fixer upper?
You can break things down into major categories:
Mechanical: Requires complete set of tools. Experience helpful. Parts costly.
Electronics/Wiring: Instruments are expensive. Wiring easy
Fiberglass: Easy to learn
Woodwork: Requires a well equipped shop

Woodwork on a boat is cabinet level. Requires expertise and equipment. It's the hardest in my book. I can frame a house but I can't make a coffee table and boat interiors are like coffee tables. Expensive teak coffee tables. If you enjoy the work, great.

My current project boat was purchased with 1 engine DOA, 1 transmission inop plugged with rust, 2nd transmission iffy. Original 1985 condition. Original 1985 electronics. I've already rebuilt the transmissions. New exhaust, fuel, and raw water systems currently in process. I enjoy the work.

A very long list of pre and post splash items but it will go in the water 5/31 and we will head off for a month cruise in Aug. Ready or not. Wife has declared there will be no leaks over the bunks.

I'm not convinced there is any huge financial advantage. Restoring is expensive. It's also very very time consuming. Brightwork needs to be completely redone. Teak decks need to be redone. Windows cracked and leak. I could easily spend the season (and next) getting it shipshape.

Yea, you could call it that....

https://caribbeansealife.com/about-our-boat/refit/

Enjoy ��

I bought a boat which required the following in the first 3 years.

New engine, gearbox, windlass, fuel tanks, batteries, complete rewire, battery charger, hot water tank, re-core the deck, new standing & running rigging, new electronics plus more.

If I sold it now, it would only be worth slightly more than I paid for it, so financially it makes no sense. But if I had the opportunity to do it again, I wouldn't change a thing.

Very good advise from Comodave, that the time and money you put into a project boat like this will be WAY higher than you thought possible. And don't plan on getting back much of what you put into the boat when you sell it. The value of the improvements comes from you getting to use and enjoy what you've done to the boat.. Personally, I find big boat projects to be very enjoyable. You just need the time, money and an understanding wife!

+1 on the understanding wife. My wife doesn’t even ask what boat parts or accessories cost any more. She just shakes her head and walks away.

What? I thought every boat was a fixer upper? :lol:

The problem with a fixer is that you will never know the true cost until it is done. It is pretty easy to get an estimate of the cost to fix what you can see and what you know is wrong. The problem is that there is almost always something else hiding behind what you are working on that creates more work and more money.

I don’t enjoy rehabbing things. Maybe because my first house was built in 1916 and I used to own a 1984 sailboat with rotten cored decks?

A couple pieces of advice from an old person. 1) make sure you get a good survey, along with a mechanical survey. The information will save you from some surprises and may help with the negotiation. Not to mention that it will be required to insure it anyway. 2). 2 kids are 3-4 times the work of one. Unless you are financially independent and simply fix up houses for fun and don’t have a steady job, be sure that you and your wife are realistic about the time it takes to work on a boat. If you are working on the house, you can always set down a hammer or paint brush to lend a hand with a kid. Not so if you are down at the boat working on it. Babies are just plain hard work.

What does "complete blister job" on the bottom mean?
Blisters repaired?
Bottom soda/sand blasted, dried,blisters ground out,properly filled, new epoxy or vinylester layers?
I`d check that,and get the invoices.Opinions vary wildly on blister solutions, but do find out what was done.

SoWhat said:

Why not buy the one in Baltimore for $27,500 if you want a fixer upper?
You can break things down into major categories:
Mechanical: Requires complete set of tools. Experience helpful. Parts costly.
Electronics/Wiring: Instruments are expensive. Wiring easy
Fiberglass: Easy to learn
Woodwork: Requires a well equipped shop

Woodwork on a boat is cabinet level. Requires expertise and equipment. It's the hardest in my book. I can frame a house but I can't make a coffee table and boat interiors are like coffee tables. Expensive teak coffee tables. If you enjoy the work, great.

My current project boat was purchased with 1 engine DOA, 1 transmission inop plugged with rust, 2nd transmission iffy. Original 1985 condition. Original 1985 electronics. I've already rebuilt the transmissions. New exhaust, fuel, and raw water systems currently in process. I enjoy the work.

A very long list of pre and post splash items but it will go in the water 5/31 and we will head off for a month cruise in Aug. Ready or not. Wife has declared there will be no leaks over the bunks.

I'm not convinced there is any huge financial advantage. Restoring is expensive. It's also very very time consuming. Brightwork needs to be completely redone. Teak decks need to be redone. Windows cracked and leak. I could easily spend the season (and next) getting it shipshape.

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Ha I went and looked at that one in Baltimore. Not only was it a complete gut job, it had cracks in the fiberglass the length of the bridge on both sides so wide I could stick my finger in it. And soft spots all over the place. I honestly don’t know how it’s still floating.

Here in Alaska, this would be a 'steal'. Hell of a price.

Al-Ketchikan
Getting old came quicker than expected

We definitely understand the, it’ll cost twice as much and take twice as long thing. With the boat I’d imagine it’d take even longer. Our plan is to do this in stages. We’d start with just cleaning and new bedding. Then while on our first trip we’d get a better idea of what kind of furnature we want and have it delivered for the next trip. From there we’d pick a room and focus on that until it’s done then move on. Of course there will be regular boat maintenance. One thing that really surprised me about our Mainship is there literally is always something wrong. Might be small, might be more serious, but there always something. So that’s why we are planning long stops at fun cities for trips to the boat just for catching up on work.

It’s cool to hear so many people enjoy working on their boat. We look at an opportunity to make some pretty awesome memories as a family.

I worry about issues with older big boats. Fuel tanks scare me. I’ve done a lot of reading and I know there are reasonable solutions like using the existing tanks as frames and installing a bunch of small plastic tanks or large bladders. I think that an the mains would be the biggest risk with this boat.

So if this boat passes the oil samples, sea trial and my inspection, what kind of surprises could present itself that, if we had known, would have made us walk away?

Well a 46’ fixer will definitely keep you busy, but there isn’t anything wrong with that. Good luck, hope the boat is what you want.

Steve

Nothing wrong with a fixer upper. You will always be doing something on the boat anyway. We looked at a lot of boats when we were ready to buy last year. We aren't afraid of doing the work that is needed to bring the boat to the condition we want. The question for us was buy a fixer upper for a good price, then put more money in the boat to make the boat safe reliable and livable. Or just spend more money and get a boat that is turn key ( if there is such a thing )..One way or the other you will spend the money. The question for us was how much we really wanted to refit on a boat or do we just want to enjoy asap. Time is something you can't get back. You sound like you have your eyes wide open. I like the boat in Rockport. We almost bought a 46 instead of a 42.

What? I thought every boat was a fixer upper? :lol:

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Exactly--just some more than others.

+1

OP: You just bought the Mainship last summer and you're already moving up?? Wow! That's definitely quick. GLWYS

When you buy a boat you either want to buy one that is perfect, or one that is cosmetically “uweooo”. It costs very little to clean up “uweooo”.

When it comes to canvas, cushions, and carpet I prefer it to be Past end of life. This way you can get what you want with out paying twice.

Pictures show some potential water leaks in bunk room so a survey is a must.

Just be careful!

Spend the time on your-own and money on professional surveyors so you can get clear idea on what you will actually face once purchased.

Weigh all the options concerning time and $$$ needed to get it into as you like it to be condition.

Calc what costs on top of purchase you will need to put into it. I recommend you take those cost calcs and put at least 30% more on top of them. Then figure out how much of a "loss" you can afford to take when you sell her... cause if you fix her all up and pretty - you will most likely never get all your $$$ back.

To me... the most important portion of being sure as possible that breakdown will not soon happen - IS - the engine$. Ten$ of ten$ of Thousand$$$ could quickly become needed.

Then... if you feel good about the boat.. Go For IT!!!

Pretty much every boat we buy is a fixer upper.

Group9 said:

Pretty much every boat we buy is a fixer upper.

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Within a couple years [some brands within even less time passing by ] even a new boat becomes a fixer upper... of some sort.

One of the best statements about boating [paraphrased]:

Even while sitting at the dock having a cold one in the transom; every portion of the boat that will eventually break is in process of getting ready to break!

That can also be said as a similar statement for every material item ever created. Planets, Stars, Universe and, of course, we Humans too!

I purchased my current boat as a fixer-upper. (Under $10K). Thought it would take $20-25K to get it where she was respectable. Now that she is finished, it was closer to $35K.

Do I have a boat I know inside and out? Yes
Was there a lot of feeling of accomplishment? Yes

If your budget and time permit. Why not go for it. Just plan for it costing and taking longer than your “plan” anticipated.

Good luck with your decision.

Great Information!

I am pleased to have found this thread. This is my first post. I am in a similar situation as the original poster, and even looked at the boat he is going for (online)! I have pretty much looked at all of the sub-six figure liveaboards for sale right now. Your experience has made me feel more comfortable about a fixer upper, as all boats always need SOMETHING and cost half again what you would hope. If you are handy, there is an awlful lot you can do yourself as well.

It sounds like as long as the engines and structure are sound, it is up for consideration at least. I got so lucky with my current boat, an old girl in phenomenal condition, that I believe my low priced, well loved craft is out there!

No. New boats have enough issues. There seems that there is always something that needs fixing on every boat. Didn't want to acquire a fixer-upper with a long list of to dos.

Buy Smart. Restore Smart. Maintain Smart. Sell Smart. Use Smart.


And Always, Always - Play Smart!


Anywhere with any type, size, shape of - - > BOATS!!!

Stacey said:

I am pleased to have found this thread. This is my first post. I am in a similar situation as the original poster, and even looked at the boat he is going for (online)! I have pretty much looked at all of the sub-six figure liveaboards for sale right now. Your experience has made me feel more comfortable about a fixer upper, as all boats always need SOMETHING and cost half again what you would hope. If you are handy, there is an awlful lot you can do yourself as well.

It sounds like as long as the engines and structure are sound, it is up for consideration at least. I got so lucky with my current boat, an old girl in phenomenal condition, that I believe my low priced, well loved craft is out there!

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Same here! You know our current boat was, by far, the smallest and cheapest in Georgetown, SC for the eclipse. Hanging out on the docks at night this one coupe said they didn’t have any AC on their beautiful much larger boat. Both systems crapped out. And it was really hot and humid. And there was our little sub $30k boat with both AC’s blowing ice cold.

I think the next step for us is to make the trip to see “Therapy”. The add is very out dated and the boat’ss actually condition is...really dirty. But I believe it’s mechanically sound. We don’t want to buy a boat that we have to put on the hard for a year while we work on it. We want something that we can enjoy while tackling while enjoying the boat.

Congrats on yours! Since we seem to have similar interests, can you tell me more about your boat and it’s condition?

Thanks for all of the comments! I honestly expected most everyone to say thing but “run!” I have always felt that every boat is a fixer upper.

Being that I’m mechanically inclined, I was planning on skipping the survey. I’m going to check out the engines and send oil samples out. That’ll tell me how healthy they are. I can check out the systems out to make sure they work. I’d also hire a diver to take pics of the bottom and running great. A sea trial should also tell me a lot.

The only thing I can’t do is a moisture test. I believe this boat is mostly fiberglass construction. I still need to research that some more. So if it doesn’t have any soft spots or major cracks in the gelcoat, can there still be something so that I can’t see or notice that would be a deal breaker?

Funny story. When we bought our Mainship I had a mechanic check the systems out for me. Everything was fine. The minute after I signed on the dotted line the generator died and wouldn’t restart. Classic!

We bought a 42 grand banks for $80k. We've put in $40k so far this year, doing all the labor ourselves. Just about every old boat is a project boat, even if it was well built.
We had a crappy surveyor look through the boat. Even though our surveyor wasn't any good, getting a first and second opinion on most of the systems was extremely valuable; it informed me on many of the things that could go wrong and gave me initial ideas on how to fix them. Also, insurance will require a survey, and for the amount of work we put into it, we choose to insure our boat. We did not have an engine surveyor, simply did an oil sample which came back showing that the engines were 'sound'. Most of a year later, we've replaced all oil coolers, thermostats, repaired heat exchangers, adjusted valve clearances, replaced fresh water pumps, rebuilt raw water pumps, replaced many hoses, installed new alternators and regulators, replaced the port side muffler, and painted parts of the engines. None of this was anticipated.

I highly recommend a haulout. Not only does it give you a good look at the condition of the hull, you will be able to identify all of the zincs (prop shaft, rudder, hull) so that you can purchase new ones for replacement without having to hire a diver multiple times. Together, a survey and haulout should cost max $1500 - totally eclipsed by the total cost of a project boat. A haulout also allows you to evaluate the running gear. Replacing cutlass bearings and performing shaft alignment can get expensive. Replacing shafts or propellers as a result of galvanic corrosion (there is no way to see this without a diver or a haulout) can get ridiculously expensive.

I found many things wrong with the boat that I didn't anticipate. You'll have a list of critical projects and a list of non-critical projects. After you close on the boat you'll want to get started immediately on the non-critical projects because those are often the most exciting (upgrades and such). DO NOT DO THIS. After a few weeks of owning the boat, your critical projects list will have grown considerably. I know it sounds silly, but if you have non-critical projects underway during this time you may become overwhelmed. We had trouble with this - make sure you prioritize.

One example of this is the plumbing. The sanitation lines were run terribly, ensuring permeation and smell. All freshwater plumbing was run with polybutylene (look for grey plastic water lines) that will constantly split and leak - we replaced with PEX. Aluminum water tanks were corroding from the inside out due to chlorinated water - replaced with polyethylene.

We were lucky because our fuel tanks had been replaced with aluminum. On a taiwanese trawler, fuel tanks are one of your biggest concerns. Take a close look - if they're black iron, be prepared to replace them at significant cost.

Sorry to be a downer, just want to make sure you're mentally prepared and don't make the same mistakes we did. Would we buy our boat again, yes - we love it (though some days I would not say that). Best of luck!

I concur with the assessment that 'all boats are fixer-uppers'. But if the basics are at least reasonable, and you can stand to look at the rest, and can stand to have things 'in progress', and you can do a lot of the stuff yourselves and afford the rest over time...well, then maybe.

Your reporting that the boat is in TX and you'll bring her home to NC in hops and skips sounds like the potential for undue and unwelcome trouble. Unless you have unlimited time, budget for travel and a place to stay, and a budget for repair, the uncovering or developing of ills will make things difficult and expensive to deal with at a distance.

We were exceedingly lucky to suffer our trip-terminating failure, and find a parking spot, only an hour and a half from home!