Steel vs Solid Fiber vs Sandwich

Portage_Bay · Feb 17, 2018

My experience with Al has been skiffs and the like. Small, simple open boats. As I understand the term trawler applied to recreational boats it means relatively heavy and slow. So the lighter weight of Al is not a great advantage.

Al is one of the lesser noble metals used in the marine world. If you are not careful in mounting hardware and using fasteners you could turn your Al hull into an anode for all the other bits n pieces. Aren't Al anodes now recommended for fresh water.... And stainless and Al have a in interesting interaction. The corrosion acts like a glue. Getting stainless fasteners out of Al varies from frustrating to nearly impossible.

But, this is not based on real experience. I'm sure someone with more knowledge and experience will chime in

Art · Feb 17, 2018

I suggest Tollycraft boats. One old brand of fiberglass pleasure boats that were built like a BSH!! Ours is 41 yrs. and doing just fine.

I also suggest docking under covered berth or enclosed boat house.

Rain, snow, sun and high winds [e.g. most weather conditions] are all detrimental to any type boat or boat material.

dhays · Feb 17, 2018

Art said:
I suggest Tollycraft boats. One old brand of fiberglass pleasure boats that were built like a BSH!! Ours is 41 yrs. and doing just fine.

I also suggest docking under covered berth or enclosed boat house.

Rain, snow, sun and high winds [e.g. most weather conditions] are all detrimental to any type boat or boat material.

Tollycraft also survive being hit by WA State ferries.

There are plenty of times when I wish I had a boathouse. OTOH, there are more times when I am glad to be on the boat at my dock not enclosed in a tin shed.

Art · Feb 18, 2018

dhays said:
Tollycraft also survive being hit by WA State ferries.

There are plenty of times when I wish I had a boathouse. OTOH, there are more times when I am glad to be on the boat at my dock not enclosed in a tin shed.

Hi Dave!

We're in covered berth with fair views; not inside a full-on BH. Although the BH would also keep dust off boat, wherein covered berth does not... at least not in the relatively dusty area where we dock.

That said; living 100 miles away from dock when we do get chance to visit boat we usually go out and anchor. Seldom is much time spent at dock except for occasional required repair/maintenance. I even try to do those efforts while out n' about aboard boat.

Wishing you a great upcoming season!!

Art

markpierce · Feb 18, 2018

Art said:
...
I also suggest docking under covered berth or enclosed boat house. ....

Covered berths don't do well to boats when there is a boat/dock fire.

Or maybe I'm jealous having a mast prohibiting use of a covered berth? Anyway, the good cement docks (versus the old wooden docks) at my marina don't have covered berths.

FF · Feb 18, 2018

"but for many, living with dirt and mildew behind cabinetry beats ripping it apart to chase rust."

"Great boat but there were places in the interior where the steel could not be reached for proper maintenance."

The steel boat builders in Euroland solved this hassle almost a century ago by making removing the interior part of the initial design.

A bit more work for the build but a Godsend doing upgrades or repairs.

psneeld · Feb 18, 2018

yep FF. exaggly....

BandB · Feb 18, 2018

The evolution of fiberglass has largely eliminated steel from the recreational industry in boats under 170'. Give Hatteras and Westport a lot of credit in that regard in showing first that glass was practical in 40' boats and then that it was practical in boats over 100' and up to 164'. The reason is that most boats are production boats, at least the structures are (semi-custom with production structure but custom interiors). It's cheaper to build one steel boat than one fiberglass but far less expensive to build fiberglass when building many of the same.

Steel is stronger but not to an extent meaningful to the recreational user. Simply in larger boats, over 170' or so, there are no alternatives other than steel and aluminum. Metals require significantly more maintenance and a poorly maintained metal boat will deteriorate far greater than a poorly maintained fiberglass hull.

In recreational, up to 200' or so, you'll see aluminum over steel because of weight and speed. At one time it was steel hull, aluminum superstructure, but builders have gained confidence in aluminum, or better expressed in alloys.

Steel is just not conducive to economic volume building of recreational vessels. Also, now that we have fiberglass boats over 50 years old, they've shown their durability.

Now, as to coring. Coring got a bad reputation simply because of some poorly done balsa coring. Production builders now know how to do coring well and using synthetic products as opposed to wood. A properly cored boat can be stronger rather than weaker while also being lighter. In my opinion, using modern techniques, coring is neither superior or inferior to non-cored. Either is good done well and both are lousy if built poorly.

Art · Feb 18, 2018

BandB said:
The evolution of fiberglass has largely eliminated steel from the recreational industry in boats under 170'. Give Hatteras and Westport a lot of credit in that regard in showing first that glass was practical in 40' boats and then that it was practical in boats over 100' and up to 164'. The reason is that most boats are production boats, at least the structures are (semi-custom with production structure but custom interiors). It's cheaper to build one steel boat than one fiberglass but far less expensive to build fiberglass when building many of the same.

Steel is stronger but not to an extent meaningful to the recreational user. Simply in larger boats, over 170' or so, there are no alternatives other than steel and aluminum. Metals require significantly more maintenance and a poorly maintained metal boat will deteriorate far greater than a poorly maintained fiberglass hull.

In recreational, up to 200' or so, you'll see aluminum over steel because of weight and speed. At one time it was steel hull, aluminum superstructure, but builders have gained confidence in aluminum, or better expressed in alloys.

Steel is just not conducive to economic volume building of recreational vessels. Also, now that we have fiberglass boats over 50 years old, they've shown their durability.

Now, as to coring. Coring got a bad reputation simply because of some poorly done balsa coring. Production builders now know how to do coring well and using synthetic products as opposed to wood. A properly cored boat can be stronger rather than weaker while also being lighter. In my opinion, using modern techniques, coring is neither superior or inferior to non-cored. Either is good done well and both are lousy if built poorly.

Well put/explained!

sunchaser · Feb 18, 2018

dhays said:
What do you folks think about Al?

I have seen a very few pleasure boat “trawlers” made from Al. I don’t mind the appearance of bare Al. I just don’t know what the disadvantages are.

Al is not only a favored work boat construction material but a common build material for yacht type vessels in BC. Many good builders in NZ like Al. Such as Dashews. Then there are Browards. Then there are Coastal Craft vessels yada yada.

Many steel boats are made with Al superstructures for weight savings. Again, very common.

BandB · Feb 18, 2018

sunchaser said:
Al is not only a favored work boat construction material but a common build material for yacht type vessels in BC. Many good builders in NZ like Al. Such as Dashews. Then there are Browards. Then there are Coastal Craft vessels yada yada.

Many steel boats are made with Al superstructures for weight savings. Again, very common.

#1 boat builder in the US-Tracker Marine. Aluminum as are many fishing boats.
Crestliner, Lund, and many more.

Coastal Craft is a very nice boat.

FF · Feb 19, 2018

"Coring got a bad reputation simply because of some poorly done balsa coring."

As well as using anything as a "core" including small squares of plywood cut offs.

A cored vessel is an engineered vessel, or it fails.

Wxx3 · Feb 19, 2018

FF said:
"Coring got a bad reputation simply because of some poorly done balsa coring."

As well as using anything as a "core" including small squares of plywood cut offs.

A cored vessel is an engineered vessel, or it fails.

Yes. B&B did give a good summary.
I'll add that I'm reading this book about a mariner in the mid '60s.
He is on a small freighter in the North Atlantic westbound.
Storm comes up and he says, "The Findon was quite a nice little ship with comfortable accommodation but she was just the wrong size for Atlantic crossings. She was too small to go straight through the waves and too big to go over them so we bounced and crashed our way over to the States"

This quote helped me to understand the brilliance of James Krogen. He designed and built a boat that could go over the waves. It's why in all my travels, I've never had green water over the cap rails.
Probably another reason the reduced weight of a cored hull makes the boat better for crossing oceans.

I'm not getting paid by KK, but I trust my boat more than ever.

Steel vs Solid Fiber vs Sandwich

Portage_Bay

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Art

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dhays

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Art

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markpierce

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FF

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psneeld

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BandB

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Art

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sunchaser

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FF

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